1. Welcome to 4Runners.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all 4Runner discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other 4Runner owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Why is Puerto Rico able to use 15W-40?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by 1776taco, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:13 AM
    #91
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Member:
    #13179
    Messages:
    929
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '20 SR5P
    Makes sense. And I forgot to add a visual representation of dusty roads.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:20 AM
    #92
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Member:
    #9314
    Messages:
    12,321
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    S/E Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2019 TRDORP, KDSS, MGM
    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    I think @4runningMan nailed it.

    Lol!!
     
  3. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:36 AM
    #93
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Member:
    #7739
    Messages:
    1,445
    Meh my tacoma has 200k on it with on sale oil and up to 12,500 mile intervals. All in Florida where the dust is thick! Lol
     
  4. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:44 AM
    #94
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Member:
    #9314
    Messages:
    12,321
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    S/E Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2019 TRDORP, KDSS, MGM
    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    I also off-road frequently, which consists of prolonged operation at low RPM's and low speed.

    Do whatever you like with yours. I'll follow the manual. And, I plan on going much further than 200K with mine.
     
  5. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:47 AM
    #95
    VentureTRD

    VentureTRD New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Member:
    #21811
    Messages:
    207
    Gender:
    Male
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Venture Nautical Blue Metallic
    Goodyear DuraTrac Tires P265/70R17 AEM Air Filter TRD Radiator Cap TRD Pro Leather Shift Knob TRD Pro Rubber Floor Mats Agency 6 Recovery Shackle Lamin-x Amber Fog Light Covers Red LED Interior Lights LasFit LED Turn Signals
    If Toyota is recommending 5W30 in Puerto Rico and South Africa (more countries if I keep digging for owners manuals), it is due to the US CAFE requirements only.

    After 2010, they are trying to save 1/2 MPG anywhere they can.

    If your engine only lasts 150K instead of 300K, it's long out of warranty, and not their problem.

    I've also read that the Dual VVT-I needs a 0W20 thinner oil, but in Puerto Rico and South Africa they also use the same Dual VVT-I engine with 5W30.

    South Africa also recommends using Premium Gas!

    https://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/fj-cruiser
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
    ElectroBoy and Singleminded like this.
  6. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:52 AM
    #96
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Member:
    #7739
    Messages:
    1,445
    Oh I still have the Tacoma, on the way to 300k. And I have had the oil analysis done on it and the results have been great.

    I also do a fair share if offroading with it and the 4runner Pro.
     
  7. Jun 21, 2021 at 8:58 AM
    #97
    VentureTRD

    VentureTRD New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Member:
    #21811
    Messages:
    207
    Gender:
    Male
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Venture Nautical Blue Metallic
    Goodyear DuraTrac Tires P265/70R17 AEM Air Filter TRD Radiator Cap TRD Pro Leather Shift Knob TRD Pro Rubber Floor Mats Agency 6 Recovery Shackle Lamin-x Amber Fog Light Covers Red LED Interior Lights LasFit LED Turn Signals
    2020 FJ Cruiser Owner's Manual from South Africa

    Reference Pages 526-527 (Gas and Oil Recommendations)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Jun 21, 2021 at 9:02 AM
    #98
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,935
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    Yep. The thinner oils (0W-20 engine and 75W transfer case) are all recommended for CAFE reasons. There is written documentation from Toyota posted in this and other forums stating this.
     
  9. Jun 21, 2021 at 9:07 AM
    #99
    VentureTRD

    VentureTRD New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Member:
    #21811
    Messages:
    207
    Gender:
    Male
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Venture Nautical Blue Metallic
    Goodyear DuraTrac Tires P265/70R17 AEM Air Filter TRD Radiator Cap TRD Pro Leather Shift Knob TRD Pro Rubber Floor Mats Agency 6 Recovery Shackle Lamin-x Amber Fog Light Covers Red LED Interior Lights LasFit LED Turn Signals
    Cape Town, South Africa is 33° S.

    If you look up 33° N in the US, that's about as far south as Dallas, TX.
     
  10. Jun 21, 2021 at 9:09 AM
    #100
    VentureTRD

    VentureTRD New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Member:
    #21811
    Messages:
    207
    Gender:
    Male
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Venture Nautical Blue Metallic
    Goodyear DuraTrac Tires P265/70R17 AEM Air Filter TRD Radiator Cap TRD Pro Leather Shift Knob TRD Pro Rubber Floor Mats Agency 6 Recovery Shackle Lamin-x Amber Fog Light Covers Red LED Interior Lights LasFit LED Turn Signals
    My Toyota Dealer just told me that they will not get reimbursed by ToyoGuard or ToyotaCare for anything outside of 0W20, so I'm stuck using their "free" oil for the next 4 oil changes.
     
  11. Jun 21, 2021 at 9:11 AM
    #101
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Member:
    #9314
    Messages:
    12,321
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    S/E Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2019 TRDORP, KDSS, MGM
    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    Like I said, do whatever you want.

    I did every 10K on my last 4runner, but I didn't work it nearly as hard as this one. I'm on dusty roads at least every other weekend, and hit the trails almost just as often.

    I'm hoping to get 500K+ out of it, so I'm being good to it. Plus, I rotate my tires every 5K (like we all should), so it's not hard to change the oil while I'm at it.
     
    Singleminded and captrussia253 like this.
  12. Jun 21, 2021 at 9:22 AM
    #102
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,935
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    Interesting. South Africa only offers 95 octane (for use at sea level) and 93 (use at high elevation). This article explains it well.
    https://www.carmag.co.za/technical/93-vs-95-unleaded-do-you-really-need-higher-octane-petrol/

    738F64E3-A11E-43C0-8753-7D98934B1FEC.jpg CAED0FC3-9D45-44D0-8AFC-7FE26CD06A6B.jpg

    Edit: BTW, these are RON octane numbers. What US and Canadian drivers are more familiar with are the (RON +MON)/2 numbers on our pumps, the result is about 4-6 points lower than RON. So their premium/mid grades roughly match our 91/87.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  13. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:34 AM
    #103
    DGP1961

    DGP1961 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2018
    Member:
    #7154
    Messages:
    983
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5 Premium
    Totally agree everyone way over-thinks the oil put in your vehicle what the manual says and/or what's stamped on the filler screw - end of story.
     
  14. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:44 AM
    #104
    VentureTRD

    VentureTRD New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Member:
    #21811
    Messages:
    207
    Gender:
    Male
    Blowing Rock, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Venture Nautical Blue Metallic
    Goodyear DuraTrac Tires P265/70R17 AEM Air Filter TRD Radiator Cap TRD Pro Leather Shift Knob TRD Pro Rubber Floor Mats Agency 6 Recovery Shackle Lamin-x Amber Fog Light Covers Red LED Interior Lights LasFit LED Turn Signals
    It's what the Toyota Owner's Manual says is that we are talking about...

    "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be BETTER SUITED if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

    I guess living at 1200 meters elevation, I do benefit from using lower octane.
     
    Thatbassguy and Singleminded like this.
  15. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:51 AM
    #105
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    Well, I think everyone here would agree that oil changes are the single most important maintenance item for any internal combustion vehicle. And that manufacturers have very specific and high standards for the oil used, because it so important for things like longevity, performance, emissions and fuel economy. And that some of these goals may be in conflict, requiring choices and trade offs.

    Thus, everyone should also agree that it's fair to be concerned about the possibility of manufacturers specifying particular oils in order to maximize fuel economy at the expense of longevity.

    Indeed, the facts that have come out in this discussion show that Toyota's recommendation for 0-20 in North America is likely a result of them prioritizing fuel economy over other considerations.

    Do any of us know with 100% certainty that 0-20 will reduce the life of our engines, relative to a higher viscosity oil that also meets Toyota's requirements? No. But it's quite logical to suspect that this is the case.

    Thus the significance of this discussion. Plenty of people quite rightly want to maximize the life of their engines. And if a 30 weight oil would be better at that than a 20 weight, it's perfectly reasonable for them to want to know this.

    I for one will be switching to 0-30 or 5-30 when I start doing my own changes.
     
    Eagle059, 4runningMan and Thatbassguy like this.
  16. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:53 AM
    #106
    DGP1961

    DGP1961 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2018
    Member:
    #7154
    Messages:
    983
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5 Premium
    Gas mileage isn't the only reason for varying viscosities. The thinner oil is also because of much tighter tolerances in today's engines than years ago. I'm in New England I live in 90 and humid (literally today) but also snow storms all winter. I have always ran what every manufacturer said to in all my vehicles. I follow the little chart in the manual which shows the ranges, ends up I always go with the "recommended" oil.
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  17. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:56 AM
    #107
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    This ^

    I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

    This plus the facts of Toyota's recommendations for the same engine in different parts of the world show that 0-20 is not necessarily the best for us in all cases.

    No one is saying that someone's dumb for using 0-20 or whatever else is printed on the oil cap. We're just saying that a higher weight may be better for longevity (instead of fuel economy) and is certainly better for some use cases.

    Simple.
     
  18. Jun 21, 2021 at 11:59 AM
    #108
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Member:
    #13179
    Messages:
    929
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '20 SR5P
    I'm still trying to figure out how you got your screen name :D
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  19. Jun 21, 2021 at 12:12 PM
    #109
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    Ah, some things will forever remain mysterious :laugh:

    (That 30 weight is better than 20 weight in some circumstances is not one of those things).
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  20. Jun 21, 2021 at 12:41 PM
    #110
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Member:
    #7739
    Messages:
    1,445
    Yep
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  21. Jun 21, 2021 at 2:21 PM
    #111
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,935
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    There is nothing about “tighter tolerances” in today’s engines that require thinner motor oil. The 5th Gen 4Runner has been out since 2010, it’s engine was probably being designed in 2007. It’s an ancient pig.

    0W20 weight oil is specified in the owners manual only to try to squeeze out a few tenths of an MPG for CAFE reasons.

    Go back and re-read post #16. And read the EPA letter, from 2000 when Ford and Honda were trying to get EPA approval to use 5W20 for their emissions and fuel economy qualification.
    https://www.4runners.com/threads/why-is-puerto-rico-able-to-use-15w-40.18928/#post-229077
     
  22. Jun 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM
    #112
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    Yep
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  23. Jun 21, 2021 at 2:42 PM
    #113
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Member:
    #13179
    Messages:
    929
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '20 SR5P
    Actually there are plenty of sources discussing newer engines having tighter tolerances for exactly that purpose - running lower viscosity oil for CAFE compliance. Bearing clearances dictate oil viscosity, and the manufacturers are going with lighter viscosities for this reason. No, I'm not going to do your research for you. Google is your friend.
     
  24. Jun 21, 2021 at 2:45 PM
    #114
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    As has been pointed out, we’re talking about an engine designed a dozen years ago.

    When they recommended 5-30.

    You don’t need to be Sherlock to deduce that 0-20 is being recommended for MPG. The evidence is abundant.
     
  25. Jun 21, 2021 at 2:48 PM
    #115
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Member:
    #13179
    Messages:
    929
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '20 SR5P
    You might want to check out how bearing clearances are designed into an engine before citing the "dozen years ago" mantra. Just do the research before you respond.
     
  26. Jun 21, 2021 at 3:14 PM
    #116
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    I did. A dozen years ago Toyota recommended 5-30 for the 1GR-FE.

    No one has presented any evidence that Toyota since redesigned the internals of this engine in order to accommodate 0-20.

    Many people have presented evidence that 0-20 is not required for the current 1GR-FE outside of North America.

    Further, people have presented evidence that 0-20 is NOT recommended -- even in North American -- for current 4Runners operated at high speeds or under heavy load.

    As I said before, we don't know for sure that 0-20 shortens the life of the engine. It may work wonderfully. It's just that all signs point to 0-20 being recommended for MPG, and there being no harm to the engine (and logically probably a benefit) to using a 30 weight instead.

    This is the only point I'm making. There's no reason to think 30 weight is bad for this engine, based on what Toyota itself recommends. And there's good reason to think that they were prioritizing MPG over other considerations when recommending 0-20.
     
  27. Jun 21, 2021 at 3:22 PM
    #117
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Member:
    #13179
    Messages:
    929
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '20 SR5P
    That screams "ignorance is bliss." You're smarter than than, Single. I've read your posts.

    We're not talking what the manual says. You started this over whether there's any way the engine *can* or *should* require a different viscosity. The answer is yes if you will research it rather than just reacting.
     
  28. Jun 21, 2021 at 3:46 PM
    #118
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Member:
    #9314
    Messages:
    12,321
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    S/E Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2019 TRDORP, KDSS, MGM
    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    I guess I'm confused, again.

    The manual states that 4runners in Puerto Rico should run 5W-30, 10W-30, or 15W-30 depending on conditions. So, unless the engine is somehow mechanically different in Puerto Rico, I don't see a reason not to run 5W-30 here in the US, other than CAFE reasons.

    That said, I'm running 0W-20 as that's what the manual states.
     
    captrussia253 likes this.
  29. Jun 21, 2021 at 5:09 PM
    #119
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    Well, I guess this is one kind of debate strategy. Deflect, imply you have superior knowledge (but just can't be bothered to prove it) and throw in a personal attack for good measure. :rofl:

    Some people gonna notice you didn't actually refute anything I've said.

    Fact: Toyota used to recommend 30 weight for the 1GR-FE.
    Fact: Toyota still recommends 30 weight for the current 1GR-FE in jurisdictions that don't have CAFE.
    Fact: Toyota recommends 30 weight in the USA for 4Rs under heavy load.
    Fact: Automakers generally have moved to 0-20 as part of an attempt to increase MPG and meet regulatory standards.

    All of this has been documented in this thread. People who are thoughtful can make up their own minds about what the above facts suggest.

    Other people will just believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts. Since there's so many of them around on this thread, it's no longer worth discussing. So I'm out.

    Y'all have a wonderful evening and thanks for coming! You can catch my next act at the Telematics Rant! :D
     
  30. Jun 21, 2021 at 6:37 PM
    #120
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,935
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    I did some research asking Mr Google about “0w20 oil tighter engine clearances bearings”.
    And almost every article was about race car engines or hobbiest builders of high performance engines. Not a one about regular consumer car engines.

    If you’ve been talking to a different friendly Google who has different information about the 4Runner engine’s tightness, please pass it on. We’re all ears.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top