1. Welcome to 4Runners.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all 4Runner discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other 4Runner owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

PCS went bonkers today 4/3/21 | Toyota Safety Sense Calibration

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by Moon Landing, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:19 AM
    #31
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    I have a theory. I'll use my PRO Runner as an example. It probably met the go/no go tolerances for the adaptive cruise control(ot whatever it's called) when it left Japan. But, if it was at all borderline? Then adding the TRD PRO package at port is more than likely the cause of my Runners issue. I doubt the port rechecks 'Zero Point Calibration' after the PRO package is installed.

    EDIT: 4/6/21
    Now that I've spent a lot of time researching this topic it's clear to me if TRD PROS are not being recalibrated after suspension and tires are added at port. Toyota, is breaking its own rules.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 12:02 AM
  2. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:21 AM
    #32
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    No sir, it's not and I appreciate the spitball. :thumbsup:
     
    ToyotaMacGyver likes this.
  3. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:35 AM
    #33
    ToyotaMacGyver

    ToyotaMacGyver At 88mph you’re going to see some serious sh...

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Member:
    #16714
    Messages:
    138
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Justin
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2017 Super White TRD Pro
    I think it’s a good call to hold off on the lift like you said it will take away an excuse from the service department on cause.

    You’re probably on to something the system will need a zero point calibration and should fix the issues. I’d verify they are doing an alignment under warranty as part of the fix.
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  4. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:42 AM
    #34
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Good point, and I really dislike cancelling on people, but when it's warranted a mans gotta do what he's gotta do.
     
    ToyotaMacGyver likes this.
  5. Apr 4, 2021 at 9:05 AM
    #35
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    @RUBICON4RUNNER - other than your sage advice of getting TOYOTA involved early on with a problem like this. I'm wondering if you have any firsthand experience with this problem? If so, would you care to share or suggest your thoughts on a path forward?

    Thanks
    Jer
     
  6. Apr 4, 2021 at 9:20 AM
    #36
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    290
    Jer,

    I am curious if you are aware what they may do at the Port that might impact that. Good theory perhaps. I read that they put the wheels on there and things like roof racks etal. Would they perhaps put the Pro grille in at the port? I am just surmising?
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  7. Apr 4, 2021 at 9:29 AM
    #37
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    My best guess is it leaves the factory in Japan with grill installed. It almost certainly has to. That said, and while I have no way to confirm or back this up. I'm lead to believe(suspension, wheels, mats, skid, etc)are installed at the port.
     
  8. Apr 4, 2021 at 9:47 AM
    #38
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    This may help understand how they look and what they do and don't have when arriving at port. This example appears to have steel wheels, no roof rack, stock suspension......and that's just what I saw at first glance.

    Edit: the sensor is in place.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcQs0cjmhNY
     
  9. Apr 4, 2021 at 10:07 AM
    #39
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    290
    I would think you are correct. I know when I was considering buying a XP Package ORP from Toyota Jeff I know I was told that the ORP or SR5 etal go to directly to Jacksonville Florida I believe first and then from there they install the Pro grills and change out the wheels and put in USB ports etal. This was only on non Pro models though to my knowledge getting a SE Region XP package. This was in 2020. This XP Package was not available from Midwest dealers. So I thought about going to North Carolina and getting one. Anyway, part of my concern was the work being done in FL if I had an issue and nobody up here wanting to help out.

    I would think you’re right though that Grille for a Pro would almost have to be put in the factory.

    I think my post just overlapped yours from TRD Jon
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  10. Apr 4, 2021 at 11:07 AM
    #40
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    This also raises my confidence concerning the factories 'Zero Point Calibration' being just within limits, but out of limits once the lift was installed at port.

    I'm beginning to think we have a strong case for why this happened. Now the challenge is whether anyone will ACTUALLY listen and process the information. In recent years working with dealers I've had it go both ways with motorcycle quirks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  11. Apr 4, 2021 at 12:05 PM
    #41
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    290
    Yes I hear you about getting someone to listen. Hopefully they will be cool and you find someone with some experience.
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  12. Apr 4, 2021 at 7:36 PM
    #42
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  13. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:10 PM
    #43
    LakeEffect

    LakeEffect New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Member:
    #19899
    Messages:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tony
    Buffalo NY
    “It doesn’t have the brain capacity of a human being”......he might be surprised out there
    But seriously, it does sound like the calibration might be off a tad. I think this problem is correctable.
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  14. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:23 PM
    #44
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Oh man! :hattip:

    Agree! It is correctable.

    For those with post lift problems, it would help to know how much axis tolerance it has when calibrated properly.
     
    LakeEffect likes this.
  15. Apr 5, 2021 at 6:26 AM
    #45
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Just the facts.

    While I had experienced issues prior to having the winch installed. The 'front bumper cover removal' to facilitate the winch install puts the responsibility for recalibration on me. As noted below in red

    In light of this finding and in consideration of my appointment to have Westcott instal their lift. I will go forward, and once that's done I'll address any calibration needs. This was a journey and I learned a lot.

    Sensor(s) Behind Front Bumper Cover/Grille
    OEM Name: Millimeter Wave Radar
    Calibration/Initialization Requirement Events:
    • If DTC indicates
    • If front bumper cover is removed/installed or replaced
    • If sensor is removed/installed or replaced
    Sensor(s) Behind Front Bumper Cover/Grille Yes No Not Identified
    DTC Set X
    Scan Tool Required X
    Special Tools Required X
    Systems Affected:
    Adaptive Cruise Control Collision Warning Collision Braking Lane Departure Warning

    Information above found here: https://rts.i-car.com/oem-calibration-requirements-search/calv-3618.html#sbfb
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
    SlvrSlug likes this.
  16. Apr 5, 2021 at 7:45 AM
    #46
    koukimonster

    koukimonster DYNO4

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Member:
    #15907
    Messages:
    751
    Appalachia
    Vehicle:
    Midnight Venture
    Bigger A/T LT Tires, Slight Lift, Sliders, Rack, Lights, etc.
    Interesting to hear.. but not surprising. Good luck. I can understand why they say to re-calibrate after removing bumper, but at the same time, that seems a little excessive to me. Are they saying that the sensors are so precise that a potential few mm placement difference, after re-installing a bumper, can throw them off... but that loading down the rear of the vehicle so that your rake is completely reversed (considered "normal operating conditions") is OK? lulz.

    I turned off every TSS gadget I could find when driving her off the lot. I never use cruise control. My PCS setting is as low as possible and, gasp, so far I am actually happy to have it. Haven't needed it yet, but it's only come on when it doesn't like how aggressive I drive, and it hasn't given me too much grief yet. Mine definitely hasn't acted out of what was expected, at least.

    This isn't based on a bunch of testing or anything, but if I were you, I'd "take over" the braking duties once it goes crazy. I can't remember if I read something about that in the manual.. who knows. Would be good if the "auto brake" shut down once it sensed that your foot was braking (and you're paying attention).. but I'm not sure if that's the case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  17. Apr 5, 2021 at 7:52 AM
    #47
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    That's exactly what they're saying. As noted in the Toyota techs videos posted in this thread. I know, your loading point causes one to scratch their head. But, we're not making the rules.;)
     
  18. Apr 5, 2021 at 9:12 AM
    #48
    jmkulbeth

    jmkulbeth New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    Member:
    #16511
    Messages:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeffrey (KE5HDB)
    Outside St. Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Offroad Premium, Nautical Blue
    Bone stock!
    If the "auto brake" kicks in and then you press the brake, you'll override it and braking control returns to you. Same for the gas pedal: while driving normally with your foot on the gas to maintain speed and PCS braking kicks in, you can give it gas to override it and return control to you. The same holds true for radar adaptive cruise control: if you're approaching a slower vehicle you can override the braking with the gas pedal; and, if someone darts in front of you and cuts it close, you can hold the gas with the cruise on and it'll override PCS braking. However, as soon as you let go of the gas it will return to PCS monitoring, and if you're too close it will brake to maintain distance without the alarm or dash alert. It pretty much does exactly what you'd expect it to do.

    There's a wide left sweeping curve near our house with no right turn lane. Cars will slow down, move slowly to the right shoulder, and then turn. This curve puts them right in line with the radar (I'm in my lane, they're on the right shoulder, and the radar pointed right at them as they turn), and if I'm a little closer than usual it will kick off PCS braking. If my foot is on the gas, the alarm goes off, 'BRAKE' lights up the dash, the vehicle taps the brakes... it gets your attention for sure. A little extra gas to override it and all is well.
     
  19. Apr 5, 2021 at 9:50 AM
    #49
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    First I've heard about the 'gas pedal' being used to override the system. Once mine is back in working order I'll have to check it out.
     
  20. Apr 5, 2021 at 11:55 PM
    #50
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    If you're interested?

    With the costs involved in recalibration there's little doubt there are thousands of inoperative systems out there. There's potential for a cottage industry offering reasonably priced recalibration(imo). I'm wondering how long it will be(perhaps it already is)before California adds a check of these systems onto smog checks, or starts requiring annual inspections. To me the hand writing is already on the wall. tol


    Toyota Calibration — Advanced Driver Assist Systems (ADAS)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k01ekrtLYCE
    .
     
    jmkulbeth and GoSlow like this.
  21. Apr 6, 2021 at 7:55 AM
    #51
    grizzlypath

    grizzlypath New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2020
    Member:
    #18241
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 ORP-KDSS
    I have to say, what's curious though is that there are lots of people who remove and re-install their bumper cover (disconnecting and reconnecting the sensor, as well as doing lifts, and they don't seem to have any issues? Things like a lift shouldn't have too much affect since the system still works when going over hills or if you have the rear loaded and the vehicle is reverse 'raked' so to speak.

    I'll be curious to see how your recalibration goes after your lift is installed, keep us in the loop!
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  22. Apr 6, 2021 at 9:26 AM
    #52
    koukimonster

    koukimonster DYNO4

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Member:
    #15907
    Messages:
    751
    Appalachia
    Vehicle:
    Midnight Venture
    Bigger A/T LT Tires, Slight Lift, Sliders, Rack, Lights, etc.
    ^ The day I see a mechanic doing everything that guy did in that video.. I'll stop being crotchety.

    lol I kid.. but wow, if all that is involved.. we're screwed. I venture to say his work ethic and level of precision is not the norm.

    After thinking about all this some, I think one if the big keys is cross-calibration between the camera and radar. That would explain why the OP is having issues after removing his bumper, while guys with a lift have no issues.

    The 4Runner has a very dynamic pitch depending on its rear load level. Surely Toyota is aware of this and there are built in variances in the software to accomodate. So I don't think that changing pitch via lifting/leveling is a huge issue when it comes to TSS calibration.

    That said, supposedly overall ride height is important when calibrating the camera. I can see how that could matter, but I'm not sure to what extent the precision matters. Of course a Camry will get a different calibration figure than the 4Runner would.. but would lifting the 4Runner 2 inches make a material difference? I don't know. I'd hedge that no, it's probably not a real issue.

    BUT, I bet that the OP had issues primarily because the camera and radar rely on eachother's measurements as well as their own. So the two need to have an exact, fixed relationship between eachother for proper function. Fortunately, lifting the vehicle does not affect this.

    So where I'm at, personally, is that calibration is probably needed when messing with one of the sensors (or both) directly, but that overall vehicle changes are probably not super critical as long as they aren't extreme. At what lift point would camera re-calibration be a "good" idea? That would be up to the vehicle owner, I suppose.. but more info would be needed IMO to make a really good and informed decision.
     
    Moon Landing [OP] likes this.
  23. Apr 6, 2021 at 9:40 AM
    #53
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2021
    Member:
    #20442
    Messages:
    100
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5
    Readylift SST, 285-70-17 Ridge Grapplers, TRD Pro rims, 3M precut bra, N-Fab nerf/steps
    I'm sure as more time passes, you guys will figure out the work around. But after reading this thread I'm sure glad I have a 2018 without the gee whiz technology. :confused:
     
  24. Apr 6, 2021 at 11:36 AM
    #54
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Would you believe the alignment fo my Spyder(3 wheeler) requires special laser equipment and all but two of the steps required for calibrating the Runner. The Spyder does not require a target, nor does it require the two arcs. That said, if either(Spyder or Runner) are done by someone who does them often, it's far from difficult and goes exceedingly fast. It's just new to us so we think it's involved, when it's not......unless a camera is mounted behind a bad windshield or someone jacked up a radar sensor.
     
    grizzlypath likes this.
  25. Apr 6, 2021 at 11:43 AM
    #55
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    To me, the workaround is correcting it per spec.

    This is a statement in general and in no way directed at you....K :thumbsup:

    It's funny how we can throw $$$ at tons of stuff that rings our bell, but go all puckerbutt over something like this. :rofl:
     
    Slopemaster likes this.
  26. Apr 6, 2021 at 12:38 PM
    #56
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Taking things off or changing anything once absolute "0" has been computer verified does not mean you can't get 'close', or close enough, when you change something and it does not disturb nanny. That said, to hit absolute "0" when a change is made would be shear luck.

    Example: On a Spyder the front(steering tires) are laser aligned to the rear tire. If for any reason the rear tires home position at the time of alignment is changed(pot hole, removal of wheel etc.)the computer/laser accuracy of the alignment - no longer exists. But upon reinstallation you may get it close enough to not feel it in the steering, or set the nanny off. Tho any amount that it is off will cause front and rear tire wear(simply because it's not rolling at its optimum). In the Runners case, while changing things post calibration may not disturb the nanny it would cause some deviation in the operating parameters of the Runners safety sense technology. How bad could that be? That's Toyotas secret.
     
    jmkulbeth likes this.
  27. Apr 6, 2021 at 5:02 PM
    #57
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Went back and forth on whether to post this......ah why not. Well its been 72 hrs(almost exactly) since it quit working. I have let it have its way and turn itself off(usually does so within a quarter mile). Made a run into town just now and as usual(since Saturday) it turned itself off, just down the street. So, we're 6 stop signs(6 miles) down the road and stop for a traffic light. At that light, there's a tall setting Dodge Ram,..white in color. I rolled up easy, and stopped behind him much closer than normal, for me. And then, and then...........the light went off. Yeppers, it went off and never came back on. Even after having shut the truck off to run in the store. Nanny didn't turn the light on after the restart. We made the trip home on cruise, and without a hitch. Perhaps the radar needed a target? Who knows. At this point it's all kinda funny.
     
  28. Apr 6, 2021 at 6:11 PM
    #58
    Joekader

    Joekader New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Member:
    #10017
    Messages:
    275
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    A shot in the dark but did check for rodent damage maybe
    J
     
  29. Apr 6, 2021 at 6:23 PM
    #59
    Kyblack76

    Kyblack76 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Member:
    #5354
    Messages:
    607
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kyle
    Layton, Utah
    Vehicle:
    18 TRD O.R
    Didnt read much, but
    A- glad i got a older one, with out that shit.
    B- if i did buy a newer with that shit, the first thing id do, is get rid of it.

    Cheers.
     
  30. Apr 6, 2021 at 7:54 PM
    #60
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Honestly, have not checked. But that doesn't mean it won't be. Thanks, one never knows.

    That would be one way to handle things. For sure. :smashpc:
     

Products Discussed in

To Top