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PCS went bonkers today 4/3/21 | Toyota Safety Sense Calibration

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by Moon Landing, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Apr 3, 2021 at 7:31 PM
    #1
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Cruise control set at 52(50 zone) 4 lane road. Nothing coming towards the truck to my left and 50 to 75 feet ahead of me. All clear to my right. The truck brakes to make a left turn. My PCS goes batshit crazy.....showers down on the brakes.....which continued well past the turning truck. Then the dash lights up with symbols, and to do notes... one note said clean the sensor...a bit later, as I scrolled through the head unit incident log - it gave me another note - turn off the cruise and turn it back on. Neither worked. Beyond that...it says take it to TOYOTA.

    Surely this isn't a first?

    EDIT 3/5/21: See post #45 for final outcome. (tho there's lots of valuable and informative information noted within the body of this post - if you happen to be interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY4g_zG1Qj0&t=138s
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  2. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:35 PM
    #2
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    What's a PCS?
     
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  3. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:39 PM
    #3
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Read the words on the attached video. :rofl:

    You made me do that:playball:
     
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  4. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:42 PM
    #4
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

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    Sorry to about this Moonlanding.

    This scares this shizzo out of me. What if you were towing a trailer and this happened. I guess one should not use cruise control while towing. But still what the heck.
     
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  5. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:51 PM
    #5
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    Got it, thanks,

    Sorry that system is not in my vocabulary, I drive a 2018. ;)

    Glad I don't have it on mine. Seems like it's causing people grief, especially those that try to lift their rigs.

    Hopefully dealership can get it fixed for you.
     
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  6. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:53 PM
    #6
    Joekader

    Joekader New Member

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    The truck is junk sell it to me I’ll buy for a dollar and half
    Seriously check to see if the sensor is dirty could throw off distance beam
    J
     
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  7. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:54 PM
    #7
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    I hear you. While it was braking and I was trying to mentally adjust...the thought of someone rear ending me went through my head. It was not a pleasant experience for a guy that's seldom left the driving to someone else.....much less AI.
     
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  8. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:57 PM
    #8
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Uh, no thanks;)

    Seriously, even though I had washed it a couple days earlier I took the time to clean it. No help.
     
  9. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:00 PM
    #9
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Didn't know that. Glad it happened now. Because it's scheduled for a lift this coming Friday.
     
  10. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:01 PM
    #10
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

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    Please keep us posted as to what they say. Maybe I will turn off all this BS when I drive mine.

    Go the old school route. I think I will turn off when towing. Unreal
     
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  11. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:17 PM
    #11
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    @mac1usa - my feeble memory just kicked in. Something similar happened maybe three/four weeks ago. There was a gal on a bicycle in a dedicated bike lane - she was in a slight curve in the road which made my approach angle a little peculiar(at least for AI) and the exact same happened. That one, I had already written off as a fluke. I don't now.
    It's a good thing I did this post and you guys interacted, or that incident would have been long forgotten.

    EDIT: just remembered one more that happened(couple weeks back) when a car moved into a left turn lane and braked. Again, this is all new to me so I wrote it off as quirky too.

    Houston........we have a problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  12. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:41 PM
    #12
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    I think if you do a search there may be some threads/posts on lifting with the PCS system.

    I've seen a few posts on the subject.
     
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  13. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:42 PM
    #13
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    Maybe the best work around would be to disable the system.
     
  14. Apr 3, 2021 at 9:49 PM
    #14
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Googled the problem and more than a few posts showed up. Looks like I have some reading to do. Thanks for motivating me:thumbsup:

    If TOYOTA can't fix it, disabling it may become necessary.
     
  15. Apr 3, 2021 at 10:05 PM
    #15
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    If the lift doesn't work out, remember the Pro is totally awesome as is.

    Best wishes to you. :)
     
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  16. Apr 3, 2021 at 10:13 PM
    #16
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Thanks. From the little I have read already it does not happen to every Runner that's lifted, and it can be corrected. If, one finds a dealer that's willing to do the work. Also confirmed it can be turned off, but, and this is a big BUTT for me. The light in the dash stays on....nope(that ain't gonna fly - hate those pesky lights). So, for now it looks like I may have to cancel my lift if I can't get it into a dealer before then. I'm not inclined to give them any excuses, or the ability to place blame, where blame doesn't belong. The lift can wait.
     
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  17. Apr 3, 2021 at 10:41 PM
    #17
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    Yep, three options,

    1. A piece of black electrical tape.

    2. A dealership that is willing to break protocol and not worry about litigation, unlikely.

    3. Enjoy the Pro as is. :)
     
  18. Apr 3, 2021 at 10:49 PM
    #18
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    1. Not.
    2. Not necessary - if the tech knows what he's doing.
    3. Already do.

    This seems to be the fix. "Zero Point Calibration and Initialize Skid Control." From what I've read(so far) something changed in 2020 that seems to have triggered the problem. Don't recall at this writing what exactly that was? But, it's bookmarked.
     
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  19. Apr 3, 2021 at 11:15 PM
    #19
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    "OBD-II change in 2020 - Zero Point Calibration Issue"

    Zero point calibration link. I linked it because it's long and goes into great detail. .
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  20. Apr 3, 2021 at 11:40 PM
    #20
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Hey Moonlanding,

    About the lift, the ones I’ve seen have problems on the forums were where there was damage to the ABS wire on or near the control arm when they installed the lift. They were initially blaming the radar system until the damaged wires were found. Fixing wires fixed the problem.

    Regarding the PCS incident you had. it was kind of hard for me to visualize what was going on. You mentioned cruise was on. Was it a 4 lane undivided highway? Did it brake because a truck in front of you was stopped or slowing to make a left turn?

    Also, once the system initiated braking, did you let it do it’s thing “hands off”. Or did you also physically apply brake to slow for the truck turning left in front of you (assuming you felt braking was necessary at all to begin with).

    It’s hard to say if what happened here is a malfunction because it’s kind of hard to communicate everything going on in a dynamic situation, but Ill add my thoughts in case they make sense in your situation.

    I’ve had the toyota pre-collision system intervene with me in some way twice. Once in our 2018 Highlander where a guy in front of me on a city street decided to slam the brakes and turn left. The PCS beat me to the brake pedal by a fraction of a second and started to aggressively apply brakes. Lots of beeping, and the brake warning on the center display. Once the system recognized I was on the brakes pedal pushing as hard as “it” was , it immediately “stepped aside” and let me continue to slow the car myself, until the danger had passed. Even though I braked hard, it was not for that long (maybe a second), and given my evasive steering, stopping the car completely was not necessary (and the PCS system agreed based on it discontinuing its intervention).

    The other time was in the 4runner, almost exact same circumstance triggering the beeping and visual warning, but in this case, I physically braked fast enough that the PCS never felt the need to apply brakes for me. I only got the aural and visual warnings.

    Both of my PCS activations definitely happened as a result of imminent collision conditions, and both times felt appropriate. The activations may have not saved my skin in these instances, but it felt good to know that the PCS and I both agreed what “imminent collision” means.

    So Im curious about your case, did you feel that PCS malfunctioned and braked in a situation that was not necessary? Suppose you didnt have PCS, would you have braked at all in the situation you experienced?
     
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  21. Apr 4, 2021 at 12:05 AM
    #21
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    "Regarding the PCS incident you had. it was kind of hard for me to visualize what was going on."

    "You mentioned cruise was on." Yes, it was.

    "Was it a 4 lane undivided highway?" Yes

    "Did it brake because a truck in front of you was stopped or slowing to make a left turn?" Yes, but, the turning truck was in the lane to my left, on a four lane road with a center turn lane, making it 5 lane for all practical purposes.

    "Also, once the system initiated braking, did you let it do it’s thing “hands off”." Precisely. I let it do its thing and steered.

    "Or did you also physically apply brake to slow for the truck turning left in front of you (assuming you felt braking was necessary at all to begin with)." Since the other truck was in front of me, but in the lane to the left of me, when mine started braking without reason I was stunned but not confused and just rode it out. What amazed me is how long it continued to brake once we had gone well past the other truck.

    Suppose you didnt have PCS, would you have braked at all in the situation you experienced? There was zero reason for myself or AI to have applied brakes...at all.

    My apologies for not being more clear in the OP.

    None of the system activations I've had to date make any sense. Two involved a vehicle not in my lane, but instead a lane over, to my left. The other as explained was a bicyclist not in my lane, but to the right of my lane.

    While I have added a little weight to the Runner it wouldn't come close to the weight of two riders. Much less four or more. And, two of these occurrences happened before 90% of the new weight was added.

    Hope this fills in the blanks.

    Jer
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  22. Apr 4, 2021 at 1:09 AM
    #22
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    It does clear things up. I’ve had mild to moderate brake application stemming fro use of radar cruise control in a reproducible situations which I consider dumb... if I am on interstate, in right lane, steady cruise, and the guy in front of me exits the expressway, my highlander will have trouble “breaking lock” on the guy in front. So once he is in exit lane slowing down, the radar cruise will slow down to match the exiting car's speed. Even though he is no longer in my lane. Argh!

    But i knew this was radar cruise acting, not PCS, because there was no beeping and blooping. Regardless, I wonder how yours would have acted if you had cruise off.

    Honestly, radar cruise control is so annoying I dont really use it with any traffic around.

    I work in a town with lots of center lanes. Im gonna see if I can get mine to trip up like yours. It does sound like a confidence sapping situation.

    PS: did you try to gas it while it was braking unnecessarily? I wonder if it would recognize your request for throttle...
     
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  23. Apr 4, 2021 at 1:21 AM
    #23
    Moon Landing

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    Honestly I like the system and am not discouraged by what has happened. It's man made so it can be man fixed. My only concern at the moment is how much effort it will take to get - man - to fix it. I suppose we'll be finding out soon enough.
     
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  24. Apr 4, 2021 at 4:30 AM
    #24
    Agent_Outside

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    TSS in the 4Runner is a very primitive driver assist system. It is what it is.
     
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  25. Apr 4, 2021 at 4:40 AM
    #25
    GoSlow

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    You can adjust the sensitivity of the PCS. There are three settings.
     
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  26. Apr 4, 2021 at 5:49 AM
    #26
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

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    Not having owned one of these yet it’s coming and ordered I a bit nervous.

    it sounds like this could potentially created an accident where you get rear ended if more traffic behind you.

    I plan to tow my boat so if the brakes lock up unnecessarily and my trailer goes out to the other lane and cockide I have one hell of a problem.

    Maybe I should have paid big bucks snd to fix snd old school ride. I wondering if I am going to regret my order now dang.
     
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  27. Apr 4, 2021 at 6:15 AM
    #27
    peter2772000

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    I hate all this "Let me drive for you" tech. We have lane departure warning on our ML350. First time out, the damned steering wheel started vibrating when I got too close to the edge of the lane. You can be sure that shit got deactivated right off the bat.

    On the FJ, I have a switch that shuts off the traction control and ABS. Every winter after the first snowfall, I hit the switch and practice recovering from a slide etc (which, on a short wheelbase, is quite the contract)... I firmly believe that these practice runs have helped prevent a few accidents.
     
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  28. Apr 4, 2021 at 6:51 AM
    #28
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

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    I work in the auto industry for a company focused on automated driving technology. I am not an engineer though one of the bean counters.

    Pre Covid I went for some test rides and these things could not recognize the change between blacktop and old school cement. They slowed down significantly where the pavement changed from blacktop to concrete. They also mistook small sapling trees planted near the curb as pedestrians. There is a long way to go in my opinion for certain types of vehicles. I guess I am old school. Don’t tell my Dad. I want iDrive :)

    It’s amazing really. They actually have teams focused on how to prevent terrorists taking over our cars to. Can you imagine some terrorists in Afghanistan or Pakistan taking controls of hundreds of vehicles in a major US city?

    Everyone wants to rush this stuff and be first to market. Sad really or maybe I am just getting old.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  29. Apr 4, 2021 at 7:58 AM
    #29
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing [OP] AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    True. But, I think it's up to each and every one of us who experience problems to work with a dealer to correct the problem. That said, I think dealers and TOYOTA share the same burden.


    True. Mine is always adjusted down to a single blue line.


    Truth is, you're more likely to get one without the problem. Fact - you'll not hear from those who don't have a problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  30. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:19 AM
    #30
    ToyotaMacGyver

    ToyotaMacGyver At 88mph you’re going to see some serious sh...

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    Is your bumper equipped with a bull bar? Is it interfering with the sensor in the grill at all that could be causing the issues?

    Just spitballing.
     
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