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5th Generation 4Runner Suspension Options Thread

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by koukimonster, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. Mar 25, 2021 at 8:25 AM
    #151
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    That's what I excitedly hoped for when I inspected the parts! But I hadn't read anything yet about OME springs being side sensitive. When I first started Googling, I got all excited because it looks like some OME springs in fact are side designated.. but alas, that is not the case with their front 4Runner springs... so I guess it must have to do with the install. It's time for me to start watching some install vids, so maybe that situation will become clear to me soon. I do remember having to turn strut assemblies during install in the past - I'd have to place a tool in the eye and rotate against the force of the rubber, etc. until it all lined up. I guess that's what Wheeler's has already done for me. And I guess the two sides are not mirrored in a way so that they are interchangeable.

    I didn't take any photos personally, I'm bad about that. This was the best I could find on the net - it's for a Tacoma, so ignore the non-4Runner parts.. but the shocks are basically the same. For the rear boots, it looks like they probably come that way - I'll just shove 'em on there and hope for the best ha.. I'm sure it'll be fine. On the fronts, you can see what Eibach provides. Then, in the following photo, you can see what KYB provides. I'm confused because KYB provides one bushing while it looks like Eibach provides two. So I'm still not sure about this until I look at the FSM install instructions.. hopefully that will clear it up!

    http://***************
    /wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Eibach_Pro_Truck_Stage_1_Lift_Kit_Install_Review_3rd_Gen_Tacoma_02.jpg


    *sigh*

    Replace the ********'s with the following, with no spaces.. t r a i l t a c o m a . c o m

    [​IMG]
    Thanks for entertaining my silly questions lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  2. Mar 26, 2021 at 1:02 PM
    #152
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    I still haven't completely figured this out.. hoping for some clarity. I guess I may need to start a new thread for this because people are probably tired of clicking on the link for this thread and just seeing a bunch of rambling... :laugh:

    Here is the Eibach replacement shock diagram which shows and lists the parts:

    Capture.jpg

    Now, I'm not sure what the "bump stop cap" or "rod wiper" are, but I'm guessing those are somewhere attached to, or inside of, the shock body.

    I think what I'm interested in are the "lower stem washer," "lower stem bushing," "upper stem bushing," and "cupped washer." I believe those are the two washers at the end of the shaft, as well as what appears to be two bushings there (in the photos it almost looks like one bushing with a gap cut in the middle, but I do not think that's the case).

    Here is the Toyota Parts diagram for the OE. It shows a washer on top of one bushing, above the top hat, and a washer below, but no bushing is shown below.

    [​IMG]

    So what I think is happening, based off my research, is that the OE Toyota upper hat, as well as the KYB upper hat, have that lower bushing *attached* on the under side. Apparently it's held on with a little glue, at least on the KYB top hats.

    So I guess I should have four total extra pieces in this case (per side / assembly): two bushings and two washers.

    My only question at this point is.. does it matter which lower bushing and washer I use? I wonder if the OE shock and Eibach shock differ in the shaft in that area. If that was the case, I'd imagine KYB bushings for OE shocks, Eibach supplied bushings for Eibach shocks. I'm not sure which they used at Wheeler's.. maybe I can find out by closely inspecting the extra bushings I received in the package. I hope they used the Eibach bushings as that would seem more appropriate.

    Kind of figuring this out as I type this post... ramble ramble..

    Cheers lol
     
  3. Mar 29, 2021 at 7:50 AM
    #153
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    The Eibach installation instructions state to use their hardware and bushings.

    Wheeler's has used the bushings and washers that come with their top-hat kit, instead of the Eibach supplied ones.

    Annoying.

    Perhaps it doesn't matter - I'm still waiting for Eibach to return my call so I can find out for sure. But even if so.. still annoying. Who knows.. but perhaps the quality of the Eibach bushings is higher than that of the "Made in Taiwan" bushings that Wheeler's sources for their top-hat kits.

    You pay someone to do something (right)........
     
  4. Mar 29, 2021 at 8:32 AM
    #154
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    You should have done the “no spring compressor” installation method. It’s extremely easy and you could have used all the Eibach components.
     
    SlvrSlug likes this.
  5. Mar 29, 2021 at 8:58 AM
    #155
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    I may be doing it anyway. Grr.

    Main reasons for purchasing assembled were install ease as well as retaining complete OE assemblies for backup. I assumed that Wheeler's used the proven KYB replacement top-hats since that's what they sell on their site, but now I'm not even sure of what brand these are, so I may end up swapping these aftermarket parts to my OE front bits, and using the OE top hats and Eibach bushings for the lift.

    It probably doesn't really matter, though.
     
  6. Mar 30, 2021 at 12:33 PM
    #156
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    Alllriiightttt.....

    First of all, Eibach is awesome. They actually return calls, and within a reasonable time-frame? Crazy.

    However, unfortunately, Eibach confirmed via the phone (and printed install instructions) that their bushings must be used, or some slop/play can result in the shaft to top mount mating, which of course is no good and will result in pre-mature wear, etc.

    Well crap.

    I've sent an email to Wheeler's regarding the issue, so we'll see how they respond.

    It isn't the biggest problem.. maybe the guy was just busy and was working too quickly. Wheeler's did tell me that their install guy was "backed up." Plus, I imagine he does assemblies for all sorts of Makes and Models, so he can't know all the quirks. This is where going somewhere like Toytec surely pays off.

    Anyway, Wheeler's gave me a great price even with assembly, so it isn't the end of the world even if they don't offer recourse.. but I hope they do so that I may continue recommending them - albeit based more on customer service than expertise.

    You live and you learn...

    So, now to decide if I want to do all this myself, or try to find a competent local mechanic to help me swap everything over...
     
  7. Apr 1, 2021 at 11:13 AM
    #157
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    Bigger A/T LT Tires, Slight Lift, Sliders, Rack, Lights, etc.
    I finally heard back from Wheeler's.. decided to give them a call today because I was tired of waiting for a reply to my e-mail, and because I hope to get these puppies installed this weekend! When I called I immediately spoke to one of the higher-ups.. he said he was actually in the process of replying to my email. Anyway, he's waiting to hear from his "engineering and tech" team regarding the situation. He said I should hear from him this afternoon. I suppose we will see what they say in the end.

    It's one of those annoying situations, if you're particular like me. I imagine that Wheeler's will probably claim it doesn't matter. They said that they install many shocks using their upper bushings and "don't have issues." The bushings do compress and deform slightly when installed, so how much of a difference could 1mm of bushing inner diameter matter, IF there is even a difference at all? Well, I guess it could matter a lot, because by design, you'd want as much pressure on that shock shaft as possible so that it stays dead center. And at the end of the day, Eibach built the shocks, and holds the warranty, so who are we to argue with them?

    I suppose I could take a micrometer and measure the diameter of the OE shaft versus the Eibach shaft. If they are the same (which I suppose would contradict what Eibach said), then I cannot think of a reason this would cause an issue, other than potential bushing rubber quality differences.

    Grr.. it would have been so easy for them to just open the little package of bushings from Eibach and use those!!
     
  8. Apr 2, 2021 at 9:43 AM
    #158
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    Wheeler's called me this morning. Ryan, their agent, seemed sincere. He said that their "engineering" department, or something along those lines, has looked into this, and that I shouldn't have any problem. That's pretty much what I expected. Oh well. I didn't push for anything else because I'm tired of being "that guy" and beating everyone up lol.. and they at least appeared to care about the situation so it's all good. The "resolution" was at least fairly timely. I believe that they believe it's fine, and honesty is about the best I can expect these days, so that's worth something to me. Since I'm extra, I will eat the cost of "fixing" the situation one way or another. Just something to think about for those considering 3rd party labor.

    I tried to get the details out of him subtly but didn't push. He basically admitted to me that the bushings are different, but that it shouldn't matter because it's a very small difference. Eh....
    And he also claimed that Eibach only says to use their bushings in order to dissuade installation with old, worn OE bushings. FWIW, Eibach told me explicitly that even new OE spec bushings should not be used in lieu of theirs. 'Tis what it is.

    Corporate taxes are killin me right now but I hope to have this installed soon!
     
  9. Apr 3, 2021 at 11:54 PM
    #159
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Looking forward to hearing your impressions on the kit!!!
     
  10. Apr 20, 2021 at 9:59 AM
    #160
    koukimonster

    koukimonster [OP] DYNO4

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    Small update.. expect a full review soon-ish.

    This suspension swap turned into quite the headache, but in the end I think all will be fine. Other than component issues, the install was very easy except for one part - removing the rear shocks at the top mount location. Getting the driver's rear spring in was also a bit tough since I didn't have a bottle jack to use there to "cheat." Also, at this point I feel that there is no magic way to install aftermarket front springs correctly, without either luck or trial and error. I had to remove my passenger front assembly and "re-build" it with the spring clocked slightly differently in order to avoid UCA-to-spring contact.. even though I followed the Toyota manual. Makes sense though when considering that the aftermarket spring is not the Toyota spring.

    I am disappointed with the attention to detail from both Eibach and Wheeler's, but it is what it is. Their decisions/oversight at least resulted in the installation taking about 3 times longer than it would have had everything on their end been done to a higher standard. Eibach doesn't use a perfect bushing size at the top of the front shock, and they also use the incorrect (earlier gen. spec) bushing in the lower eye of the front shock. In the end, hopefully neither of these errors will impact performance or reliability, at least in practice. However, next time I swap front shocks, I'll likely have a pain to deal with since my lower shock mounts are now bent "in" to accommodate the narrower Eibach bushings.

    The suspension is installed though, and first impressions regarding ride are positive! I am holding judgement until my alignment is done and I can put her through the paces a bit more. I always take it easy for the first few days to make sure nothing is somehow loose, etc.

    Tonight I plan to take stance measurements so I can report the exact achieved lift of the ARB OME 2883's and the Bilstein 1" rear lift springs. After that, if I'm happy with the measurements, I will get an alignment. I decided to not fit any "lean correcting" spacers, and so far I am happy with that decision. I was also worried that the front springs wouldn't lift enough, but at this point I feel that they absolutely lifted enough, if not too much! From looking at the vehicle briefly without studying it, the 883's seemed to lift a good amount, definitely enough for my tastes. That said, the truck now has some reverse rake lol, go figure.. so I have to decide what I want to do. It does appear as if the rear is higher than it was with the stock springs, but perhaps not by an entire inch. I really thought that I would not have reverse rake with this setup, so I'm a little surprised.. but then again I had only found two other 5G 4Runner's running 883's so it was a bit of a gamble. My results definitely strengthen my personal decision to go with a low front end lift. I don't want to say this yet, until I fully measure my 4Runner, but I'm starting to feel like most lifted/leveled 4Runners are absolutely bro-leaned.

    Like I said, I will provide a more detailed review, with more information regarding ride quality, soon. So far though, the ride seems very similar to stock, which is kind of what I wanted. The softer the better in my eyes.. I want my suspension travel to eat up the bumps and keep my body happy. From my limited driving thus far, the suspension does seem quick to extend the wheel from the truck so it does eat up some of the bigger stuff nicely. Small bumps seem to feel about the same. My first impressions were super-great, but I had been driving around a 2015 Mazda3 with 75,000 miles on it while installing the suspension.. so I would expect that lol, and took initial impressions with a grain of salt. I will further analyze the suspension's performance and compare it to stock once everything is finalized.

    It definitely "feels" like I'm sitting higher up when driving, and I can tell that slightly more leg stretch is required to get in the vehicle ha.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
    HondaKen and Chris In Milwaukee like this.
  11. May 1, 2021 at 5:55 PM
    #161
    Sandbuster

    Sandbuster Breaking Wind

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    Blind spot mirror... More to come LOLLike many "old timer
    2019 TRD Off Road

    I just finished up a few days ago installing Eibach's Pro Truck Series struts, shocks, coil overs and rear springs. It was a little dicey compressing the first coil over spring but after that I felt like an old pro and all went pretty smoothly. I can feel a somewhat significant (positive) change on handling. Contrary to what some have stated about not changing the UCAs, the follow-up alignment brought everything into specs. Not sure if the money invested was worth the results but I'm trying hard to convince myself that it was... :yes:
     

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