1 killed 20 injured as 4 runner crashes into Apple store

Yikes. Trifecta of doom!!

 

If you put it in neutral, you would retain use of power steering and brakes (if you haven't already melted them).

Shutting the engine off might also cause the steering lock to activate. Not sure if the car needs to be in park for that to happen, but I wouldn't want to risk having it lock after ignition is turned off.

Much better to simply slip the gear lever into neutral so you dont lose your ability to physically control the vehicle.

 

It is amazing to see how some people react under adverse situations.

 

my steering wheel doesn’t lock when it’s off and in park or in gear for that matter

but I agree, bumping it into neutral, would have helped tremendously.

 

Really, even if you move the steering wheel? I thought all steering wheels locked. I should check mine. We have a Highlander with a pushbutton start, and it locks when you shut it off in park.

 

Also, didn't Toyota have an update to all vehicles years back, with the runaway Prius's and so, where they deactivated any sort of acceleration when you pressed your brakes? I remember getting a recall notice and taking both my 2008 and 2019 in so they could "adjust" the software. I think the burden of proof is going to fall on this guy, and the bar is being held high...

Cheers,

Sean

 

I remember trying gas and pedal together on my 4runner, and it eventually kills the throttle, but IIRC not as immediately as other cars I’ve had. And it doesn't cut off throttle at all in some situations (maybe linked to 4x4 mode). I often drag brakes in off roading situations on purpose, to control going too fast and bouncing when crawling up slow rocky areas. Never has the computer killed the throttle.

If in fact courts use 1.8 seconds as a “standard” reaction time, then that could easily account for the distance travelled into the store.

2 seconds reaction time seems to be what I recall from way back in driver ed class.

I would think the unintentional acceleration could get some sort of manslaughter charges at worst, if criminal charges are pressed.

 

My dad taught me when I was learning to drive to always throw it into neutral when slamming brakes to suddenly stop the car (driving manual). Now it’s a muscle memory reaction, which is why always get a car that has a centre console gear stalk selector. These types of trannys are set up with no barrier to put into neutral from drive. I hate driving my wife’s car with the f’n buttons for the tranny, depending more on electronics not to fail.

Maybe the assailant had a Pedal Commander? If he modified the car than he becomes fully liable.

 

nope, moves all around. I tried it while i was sitting at the grocery store when this thread popped up. When i did my lift and the front was off the ground, in park and off, i could push the tires back and forth no lock out.

i’ll test out my 2011 SR5 later today and report back.

 

My 2011 with keyed ignition locks out the steering if turned completely off, but doesnt lock in accessory position.

 

Agree with McSpazatron. I haven't been in a vehicle in decades that didn't lock the steering when the vehicle was in park and the key removed. Even manual-transmission vehicles, which is mostly what I've owned. I even remember a guy trying to see if he could turn the wheel in his 1976 Chevy Vega, as part of a plan to claim it had been stolen lol! He never went through with it, but he was able to muscle the steering wheel around.

Maybe with pushbutton start it's different, like maybe you have to exit and lock the vehicle first or something. Maybe you've tried all that.

Read a brief article. On a keyed ignition, the key/tumbler mechanism physically locks into detents on the steering (column?). On a pushbutton start, a solenoid actuates that. An electrical failure of the solenoid, pushbutton, or what have you, might cause the steering lock to activate while driving. Typically, that couldn't physically happen with a keyed ignition. So maybe it's designed in today.

 

never tried locking it while off and me in the car. But i’ll try thar next and report

 

OK, so I had the car off, in park and doors locked. the wheel still turned. Hard as hell to turn it, but still turned.

then I thought well, maybe the keys are in my pocket and its letting me do that because od that. so I put the keys in the house and repeated the same process and got the same result. Wheel still turned.

i cant be the only one….

 

Yeah, as I had read somewhere, maybe it's designed in. Option 2 - maybe it's dealer-configurable.

 

Well, here ya go! Posted elsewhere on the forum. I'm curious what information lead them to charge him with murder. But, it sounds like maybe I was wrong trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/driver-crashed-apple-store-charged-murder-98211277

 

Isn't the 5th gen transmission essentially controlled by switches in the part we physically move? Even though our shifter looks like a shifter, it's not really mechanically connected to anything? It would be pretty much the same as the dial at that point.

 

Turn the key off?

 

I bet if the E brake was applied not just the brake pedal there would have been a different outcome to this murder charge.
You always need to be in control when behind the wheel of a run away vehicle or just normal driving. Quick reaction time is always needed, a good grip on steering wheel to swerve out of harms way, always be ready shift to neutral or low gear if possible park & EBRAKE is a must to show that you tried to stop. If none of this was attempted you were not in control or it was intentional. People have gotten lazy in vehicles and controlling your vehicle is most important.

Had to repost some Ahole is fing with the posts today

 

You can't steer with the ignition off, and you lose power assistance on the brakes.

I'm not going to try to defend this guy anymore, because it seems like it has been concluded that he was being reckless, or reacted poorly to the situation.

However; while it's true that there are a lot of things one can do with a runaway vehicle, sometimes the damage is done before you have time to react. Imagine your throttle sticking wide open as you turn into your driveway. By the time you realize what's going on, you might be in your living room.

Again, I'm not standing up for this particular guy. I've just been in a few situations where things got out of control fast. And, I actually know someone who had a Lexus get away from him when that shit was going on.

 

when your crashing into a store with people in it. I think it’s still an option to cut the power.

 

And just let the vehicle go wherever it's pointed, rather than trying to steer away from potential victims?

Seems like taking it out of gear would be more productive.

 

yep my posts got all changed up on this thread. Crazy wording and shit

 

i can steer with my ignition off. Posted that earlier in the thread. You can stop also, but like using manual brakes.

 

braking works just fine when throttle is floored. Tested that in my driveway earlier on this thread. Also a bump to neutral on the shifter will help immensly.

 

I always thought the steering locked when you turn it off. Hmmm.

I'd still rather have power steering and brakes, given the choice.

 

nope. Read my post from Jan 2023 on this.

 

I was bored, so I checked. You are correct. It doesn't lock until you pull the key out.

 

Or perhaps it was using the Microsoft based AI and it just decided to take out a competitor. You just never know these days.

 

Turning off the vehicle isn’t realistic and takes away some control of the vehicle. Bumping the tranny into neutral exists to help with emergencies. As far as I understand, our trannies are old school and not shift by wire (P,R,N,D).

 

You’re correct. They’re still physical linkages. If you pop off the center console cover (or run an errand with the entire console removed mid-project), you can visibly watch the transmission and emergency brake linkages moving atop the trans tunnel.