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1 killed 20 injured as 4 runner crashes into Apple store

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by mrmike7189, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. Nov 23, 2022 at 6:00 PM
    #1
    mrmike7189

    mrmike7189 [OP] New Member

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  2. Nov 23, 2022 at 6:27 PM
    #2
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    You would think, but who knows how that system is programed. The owner’s manual itself alludes to the TSS system relying on templates, of sorts, to make go or no-go decisions. The apple store situation might not have triggered the braking since the sensors werent “seeing” a typical roadway condition.

    These auto braking systems are not as simple (or ironically, as complex) as they first appear. The programmers are the ones really making the decisions, prior to any particular situation on the road. It’s the human programmer that does all the thinking before hand.

    AI is mostly marketing, these safety systems, and by extention, “self-driving” cars, are nothing more than flow charts.

    This toyota could not recognize what the driver was doing, because it cant recognize anything. These systems cannot make meaning of what they “see”. Only people can make meaning of things that affect people (the driver, or safety system programer). And even people can get it wrong.

    The non-existance of AI is why idiots relying on Tesla autopilot end up driving full speed into fire trucks stopped on the interstate, or into the side of a semi’s trailer when it’s crossing the road.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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  3. Nov 23, 2022 at 7:34 PM
    #3
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Can't view it without paying for a subscription. :confused:
     
  4. Nov 23, 2022 at 7:37 PM
    #4
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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  5. Nov 23, 2022 at 9:46 PM
    #5
    Cowboy59

    Cowboy59 Enjoy the Adventure

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    Truly sad. What a traffic accident.
     
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  6. Nov 24, 2022 at 2:01 AM
    #6
    MeefZah

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  7. Nov 24, 2022 at 2:58 AM
    #7
    HotelMedicis

    HotelMedicis New Member

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    This is a tragedy. I know that mall and that Apple store. Hard to imagine how a foot could be stuck pressing down on an accelerator peddle. What part of the car would block his foot from lifting off the peddle? At least he didn't blame it on "sudden acceleration" which many Toyota owners did many years ago. Here is a Malcolm Gladwell podcast on the subject affecting Toyotas.

    https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/revisionist-history/blame-game
     
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  8. Nov 24, 2022 at 5:03 AM
    #8
    Deuxdiesel

    Deuxdiesel New Member

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    There has to be more to this story than this.
     
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  9. Nov 24, 2022 at 6:45 AM
    #9
    Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray New Member

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    Maybe his shoelaces got stuck on the gas pedal, and he couldn't move his foot left to hit the brakes. Maybe he was able to lift off the gas but not move very far. That doesn't explain what his left foot was doing, though.
     
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  10. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:14 AM
    #10
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    It's hard to judge without knowing how quickly everything happened.It's easy to think of what to do when you're not there.

    It's like the floor mat fiasco years ago. Of course, it's easy to avoid an accident if you have a second to think, and you're not panicking. But, sometimes it's too late by the time you figure out what's going on.

    That's not to say this guy wasn't a dipshit, though.
     
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  11. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:14 AM
    #11
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    His left foot was trying to brake
     
  12. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:20 AM
    #12
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I'm not sure what that article is about, but there were some actual cases where the accelerator actually got stuck (not sure if it was the floor mat, or something in the ecu, though). Then, IIRC, some people decided to make fraudulent claims that their cars had malfunctioned the same way in order to get in on the lawsuit.
     
  13. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:23 AM
    #13
    GrantA

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    They said his left foot was pushing on the brakes. They also said this happened to him before when he was on the freeway. I also understand when something weird like this happens you are not thinking 100% rationally.

    Being he has a prior case of this happening he will need to show he tried to get it looked at. This is not a time to plead ignorance.

    What could he have done different??? Well we can go down this rabbit hole but it won’t change the facts. I would like to say I would have thrown the vehicle in neutral and still use my left foot for the brake. However, again when something crazy and unexpected like this happens it is always after the fact you think rationally.

    If he is sincerely innocent then I don’t see why he should get the book thrown at him as well. He probably has enough remorse going on right now as it is. But I sincerely would not allow him to ever get his drivers license again for a vehicle. Maybe a motorcycle and that is it.

    I would imagine if my foot got stuck between the siding and the gas peddle I would be trying to pull it out. Therefore it will be pulling the accelerator out. Therefore no gas acceleration and his left foot braking would have been useful. I would want to see tire tracks showing he tried braking as well.
     
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  14. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:32 AM
    #14
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Exactly. It's hard to think rationally when you're panicking and don't have time to consider your options. I've been there, and I know others who have as well.

    I didn't see the part where it had happened before, though. That definitely doesn't look good.
     
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  15. Nov 24, 2022 at 8:05 AM
    #15
    Daddykool

    Daddykool Photography enthusiast

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    I think there's a 'black box' of sorts that may have recorded at least some of the details, such as whether the gas/brake pedals were being activated, etc.
     
  16. Nov 24, 2022 at 8:12 AM
    #16
    HotelMedicis

    HotelMedicis New Member

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    Yes, the Event Data Recorder (EDR).
     
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  17. Nov 24, 2022 at 9:29 AM
    #17
    trlhiker

    trlhiker New Member

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    Yes, it will prove whether he pressed the brake like he claimed. The brake easily overrides the accelerator if pressed hard enough and has been proven time and time again.
     
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  18. Nov 24, 2022 at 9:44 AM
    #18
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    On every make and model of vehicle?

    And, obviously it wouldn't stop instantly. Not to mention the possibility his right foot was blocking the brake pedal from being fully depressed.

    Just some stuff to consider.
     
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  19. Nov 24, 2022 at 5:16 PM
    #19
    GrantA

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    Here it is from the article posted in the original link…

    “This was just an unfortunate accident,” said Alison King, the defense attorney appointed to argue Rein’s initial bail. She said his sneaker-clad foot got “stuck between the accelerator and the side” and he couldn’t make the SUV stop accelerating. He told police his foot had gotten similarly stuck once on the highway previously.
     
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  20. Nov 24, 2022 at 5:23 PM
    #20
    2Toys

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    The forensics people will likely decide whether or not this is even possible. Will be interesting to find out the results of the investigation.
     
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  21. Nov 24, 2022 at 5:27 PM
    #21
    mrmike7189

    mrmike7189 [OP] New Member

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    Alison King Defense attorney will probably be going after Toyota next week?
    I have never done this, but I did notice that the accelerator is ridiculously tiny........with a normal size brake pedal.
     
  22. Nov 24, 2022 at 7:16 PM
    #22
    MeefZah

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    What kind of sneakers was this fuckmook wearing? Resoled clown shoes covered in wet Gorilla Glue? I stand by my original "fuck that guy" statement; there's no way anyone with half a brain can drive through a store. You got a foot brake, a foot-accessible e-brake, the gear shifter to go into N, the ignition key to turn the engine off. There's a reason the only people that drive through farmer's markets are invariably 143 years old with dementia.

    Hell, if you need to validate that he's a dumb sonofabitch - the fact that this happened to him once before, that he was stupid enough to report that now, that his lawyer was stupid enough to repeat it, and the fact that he didn't try to make any changes since that time including swapping out his Yeezys for a pair of New Balance with a normal sole, means he needs to go to a small dark hole and think about being a dumbass for about eighteen years.
     
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  23. Nov 24, 2022 at 8:09 PM
    #23
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    While the fact that this had happened previously to the driver certainly raises a lot of questions, I'll repeat my statement that it's easy to pass judgement until something is actually happening to you in real time.

    The driveway entrance leads almost straight towards the front of the store, so it would only take a second to wind up in the store if you couldn't slow down.

    Personally, I'd like to know what really happened before I condemn the guy.

    He (allegedly) tried the foot brake. Our E brake is 100% useless. By the time you think to shift it out of drive or shut it off, you're already in the store.


    Edit:. Still not saying the guy isn't a fucking dipshit. I just would like to hear his side.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  24. Nov 25, 2022 at 12:54 PM
    #24
    GrantA

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    I just tried getting my foot stuck in all sorts of positions (while the vehicle was powered off). It was not happening. Maybe if you wear a kids size shoe but I don’t see how this could have happened. I tried between the metal bar and the side, the plastic peddle and the side. I tried so many things that I just seriously doubt anyone would just get their foot stuck unless they were having a stroke or something and couldn’t control their body. Just don’t understand.
     
  25. Nov 26, 2022 at 3:00 AM
    #25
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I might have to try this tomorrow. Maybe it would change my outlook. I'm trying not to judge the guy because I know how fast shit can happen.

    But, the other part of me hates having to share the road with dumbfucks who do stupid shit and cause accidents. I've had some near misses caused by one person's idiot move. And, there are plenty of videos out there of one person's cluelessness, or stupidity causing an accident.

    If this was indeed just a case of an idiot driver, I sure hope he goes to jail and never drives again.
     
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