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White smoke coming out of tailpipe after highway driving

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by Luccig, May 11, 2023.

  1. May 24, 2023 at 1:37 AM
    #31
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    Certainly not normal. Find another dealer? I would call Toyota Canada and open a case.
     
    Luccig[OP] and Rocko9999 like this.
  2. May 24, 2023 at 3:57 AM
    #32
    hossler1788

    hossler1788 Turtle

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    Pressure test the coolant system.

    From the videos it doesn't appear to be a lot of smoke, just a puff when first started?
     
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  3. May 24, 2023 at 9:49 AM
    #33
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Pressure test, then do longer overnight test. These are basic tests the dealer should have done.
     
  4. May 24, 2023 at 11:18 AM
    #34
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    I am worried because it is a small crack that manifests itself in certain conditions, like hard driving and first start after a while. This is going to evolve and it will fall on my hands after the warranty expires.

    The dealer is supposed to investigate more, based on my videos, but they did not and are not willing to. Leave and learn. I will probably bring it up with Toyota, thank you all for advise.
     
  5. May 24, 2023 at 11:19 AM
    #35
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    Yes, exactly, thank you.
     
  6. May 24, 2023 at 11:54 AM
    #36
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Because the dealer didnt show 165 dollars worth of curiosity to notice the problem that still exists. Apprently it is still smoking.


    Especially since they charged money to not investigate the customers complaint. Seriously, charging an hour labor to let a car sit in parking lot for a bit, and start it?

    Toyota did that to me. It pissed me off, and I didnt realize it’s fairly common practice. In effect, dealers are charging money for customers to access their Toyota warranty. It’s bullshit and borderline theft.

    If toyota customers get the perception this is how it’s done, then toyota stands to lose a lot of customers. It erodes customer confidence in the brand.
    If dealers have a problem with “fake” warranty claims, it should be their problem. If they solve it on my back, well, then I guess it’s my problem now…which becomes a problem for toyota. So basically, why do Toyota dealers hate Toyota so much lol

    edit: Toyota (edit, dealers) are basically calling customers liars right off the bat by charging up front…especially when they take nearly zero effort to understand the customers observations and complaints.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  7. May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM
    #37
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Have you tried another dealer? Have you called Toyota corp. yet?
     
  8. May 25, 2023 at 8:10 AM
    #38
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    THanks for this.


    It gets better, at my expense..

    I drove the car for about 2 hours on the highway yesterday, and then left it on the dealership parking lot overnight and took an uber home.

    Then this morning I went there at 8 am and asked the service advisor and mechanic to come out and see the smoke. Of course, I started the car and smoked them out in white smoke. Then they chatted in low voice, and off to the counter I went to discuss with the service rep.

    The guy tells me here's my choice :)
    Pay for a coolant pressure test and pull out spark plugs, all 6 of them, pay them 4 hours, 700 cad plus taxes in total.

    If they find coolant in cylinders, then they take over to change the headgasket and it IS a warranty issue at that time, and I won't pay nothing (other than the initial 165 I paid for them the other day to pretty much look at my coolant level, that money are lost at this time anyway.)

    If they don't find coolant in cyls, then I pay the 700 plus tax, i.e. 800, and call it a day. Meaning I have asked for a service that proved to not be necessary. White smoke be damned.

    So far since I have no other choice, I will pay for the 4 hours and will see what they get.

    I also shopped around thinking to replace the car, and to get the same car it would cost me about 5000 plus tax, in dealer markups and such.

    Such is the joy of newer car ownership.. I may have paid 50K for a lemon if they don't find the root cause, because there is a lot of white smoke that fills up my garage and shames me into not starting the car when neighbours are around.. and fog them up,

    lough out loud.
     
  9. May 25, 2023 at 8:30 AM
    #39
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    That's total horsecrap. Find another dealer. This dealer more than likely won't 'find' anything and you will be back here with less money in your pocket. I have never seen a dealer require someone to pay for obvious warranty work, diagnostic or not. Your money, but I wouldn't go this route.
     
    2Toys and TN_FunRunner like this.
  10. May 25, 2023 at 8:35 AM
    #40
    Stitches1974

    Stitches1974 New Member

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    Almost all dealers will charge you for diagnosis like that. It's normal. If they don't find anything wrong, then the shop would be out of all that labor money. If there is a warranty issue, then the warranty pays for it.

    It's been like that for ages. It was like that when I was a service writer for a motorcycle/ atv dealer 20 years ago.
     
  11. May 25, 2023 at 8:36 AM
    #41
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    I am thinking the same, to go to another dealer first since the next available appt at this one is the next 4th business day in the morning.
    Thanks.
     
  12. May 25, 2023 at 8:38 AM
    #42
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    ANd thank you too for valuable insight info!
    It is very much possible, but I will still try it, I will try to find the biggest dealer in Toronto/GTA area and go for a second opinion first, since I may have to end up paying the 800 anyway, I might as well waste some more time first..
     
  13. May 25, 2023 at 8:43 AM
    #43
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    He is being asked to pay for multiple diagnostic tests on an incredibly obvious defect, under warranty. Most repeatable dealers wouldn't do this. A small diagnostic fee, on a random, hard to find issue? Possibly, yet managing a fleet I have only paid once-a crappy dealer-$125-to diagnose a defect under warranty, in the last 28 years.
     
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  14. May 25, 2023 at 8:54 AM
    #44
    Stitches1974

    Stitches1974 New Member

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    Sure they will. It's normal. Prime example: I bought a new Scat pack Challenger in 2019. In the fall of 2020, my car wouldn't start. I called the dealer and they had a guy come out and jump me, so I could drive it to the dealer. ( Highly rated dealer, that I have delt with for years ) I was required to have a charge added to my CC for the diagnosis. They called me the next morning saying the battery was bad and would be replaced under warranty and they would reverse the charge. Clean and simple.

    No sane dealer is going to tear into an engine without a deposit or approval from cooperate saying it's a warranty issue. For cooperate to say it's a warranty issue, a diagnosis/ tear down will be required.

    Granted I'd fight the initial diagnosis fee since the dealer was proven wrong and now they have evidence after the fact. Or have that initial fee credited to the new diagnosis, which would be refunded once it's found to be a warranty issue.

    EDIT: I'd also push for the dealer to pay for the Uber as well, due to their incorrect diagnosis.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
    Luccig[OP] likes this.
  15. May 25, 2023 at 9:03 AM
    #45
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Normal for crappy dealers. Must be different where you are from.
     
  16. May 25, 2023 at 9:04 AM
    #46
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    It seems a chicken and egg issue, and someone has to take the risk based on the lots of white smoke they have observed with their own eyes. Yet they cannot use their own eyes to ask Toyota cooperative as you say, for a further investigation. They need me to pay for it. Joy and happiness, but if they do not find anything, as in what if it's a head crack and not a gasket, then indeed I am back to square one.

    Would the coolant pressure test succeed if the car is not really heated up due to highway driving so such?
     
  17. May 25, 2023 at 9:05 AM
    #47
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Is the smoke 100% consistent and happening each and every morning after sitting overnight?
     
  18. May 25, 2023 at 9:06 AM
    #48
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    For what is worth, they did pay for the first uber when I had to leave the car there and pay 165 for nothing. Of course, one way uber, after that is my business.
     
  19. May 25, 2023 at 9:09 AM
    #49
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    No, only if I drive on 2k revs, like on highway or similar, for an hour or so. Then it happens after it cools down, say 2 hours. It happened to me after I went for a chiropractor session, left the car in the parking, went for an hour, then when I got back I filled up the small parking lot with fog. Previously I drove the car for about an hour, about 2000 revs at time, since I had to get there in time..
     
  20. May 25, 2023 at 9:12 AM
    #50
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Hmm. They may miss that as the car will be moved a couple of times before it reaches the mechanics bay and likely clear the smoke out. Needs to be driven like you said, then straight to the bay. Could even borescope a cylinder and see coolant.
     
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  21. May 25, 2023 at 9:14 AM
    #51
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    Now it will not be a question of them not seeing the smoke
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2023
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  22. May 25, 2023 at 9:24 AM
    #52
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    They were very careful to speak in low voice and not admit anything, as in their first diagnose was wrong, they saw the smoke and still the rep position was that it may be nothing. Inconclusive. Cars smoke like that.

    This part I have a hard time believing. I don't see them smoking like this, and I had Toyotas for a good 30 years.
     
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  23. May 25, 2023 at 9:27 AM
    #53
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Heck, if it was me, I would buy a borescope or rent one from a autoparts store, drive it like you said, pull a plug and look in the cylinder. That amount of smoke you are going to see coolant or something leaking into the cylinder.
     
  24. May 25, 2023 at 9:28 AM
    #54
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    I agree, but then what

    The dealer won't admit it as evidence, unless they find it
     
  25. May 25, 2023 at 9:29 AM
    #55
    Stitches1974

    Stitches1974 New Member

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    Same thing in every state where I worked with automotive. Florida, Missouri, and Indiana.
     
  26. May 25, 2023 at 9:31 AM
    #56
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    Of course, but you will know definitively. As of now, you don't know. $50 and some time, for me, would be worth knowing 100% what is entering those cylinders.
     
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  27. May 25, 2023 at 9:32 AM
    #57
    Luccig

    Luccig [OP] 2020 Limited

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    I think you are right,

    It worth the time, since I have it, to at least see for myself, even if they won't take it as evidence.

    I will do this and get back here, thank you
     
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  28. May 25, 2023 at 9:34 AM
    #58
    Rocko9999

    Rocko9999 New Member

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    No worries. Take some pictures, etc. Even if they ignore your information, it's all part of building a case should corporate need to get involved-which I suggest you do regardless. As I said, Toyota corporate has a way of keeping dealers in line.
     
    Luccig[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  29. May 25, 2023 at 11:52 AM
    #59
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    You bought this from a non-toyota dealer correct? Since toyota dealers are being so insanely difficult, maybe you should go to the selling dealer and tell them they sold you a defective car. See how they respond.

    I had no idea it was common to charge customers for diagnostic work before considering warranty. It really turns the whole calculation of buying new upside down, knowing that the the dealers get to charge to then deny. It’s in their interests to do this as long as possible then, and to make us bear the cost of their problems.

    Even if it’s common, am I wrong to think this is super bad business practice?

    Am I wrong to think of it as a way to milk the customer? This just seems like such a deception to say your car has a warranty, then basically dare you to use it.
     
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  30. May 25, 2023 at 12:02 PM
    #60
    Stitches1974

    Stitches1974 New Member

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    Dealers don't deny, it's corporate, for the most part.

    Customer brings vehicle in and explains the issue. Tech does diagnostic. Diagnostic is logged in for the service writer to look at. Service writer submits finding to the service manager. Service manager submits any info to regional manager and higher ups. Higher up give the go or no go if it's warranty or not.

    Yes, back in the days service managers made a lot of those calls, but after so many non warranty calls and the dealer not getting paid, that "mostly" stopped. Yes, there will be some deviation, but that is the normal way of doing things these days.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023

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