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Wax attracts dust more than non waxed/old paint?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by 2020runner, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. Dec 27, 2021 at 11:57 PM
    #31
    suaveflooder

    suaveflooder New Member

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    lol, you went through all of that to tell us nothing? Care to enlighten us? Not being facetious, I was honestly waiting to hear what you suggested. I actually love learning about stuff like this (how I found aerospace 303) Anything easier and works better or longer will have my attention! I just haven’t found much that does the same :cheers:
     
  2. Dec 28, 2021 at 4:08 AM
    #32
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked New Member

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    He's actually correct. Methods of protecting your paint while enhancing the gloss have changed pretty dramatically over the last 10 years or so. Speaking as one who details cars for a living, here's the short course.

    Waxes have been around for over a hundred years and still work pretty well for enhancing gloss. The downsides are that they (generally) don't last very long (even Collonite) and they can be a PITA to apply and remove. Anybody who's ever used Collonite 476S will know what I'm talking about here. I still like the look of Colloniye 845, but I haven't used it on personal or customer cars in years.

    The first group of products to give traditional wax a run for the money were polymer sealants. These contained no wax and were much easier to apply and remove. Some purists complained that they gave more of a "Saran Wrap" shine than waxes, but one could apply a wax as a "topper" and have the look of a wax and the durability of a sealant. (And the wax went on and came off easier here.) Oh yea, I forgot to mention that applied properly, these products generally last at least twice as long as a wax. My personal favorite polymer sealant is Menzerna (now Jescar) Power Lock.

    Next came Ceramic Coatings. These are real game changers. They provide much better gloss and last much, much longer. (Some coatings advertise 5+ year life.) The downside is that these coatings are much more expensive from a material cost standpoint. They also require more care and training to apply properly and thus are fairly hard to use for the average DIY detailer. Trust me, there is a learning curve on these bad boys. There are some "spray on" products that claim to use "ceramic technology." Although there are incredibly easy to use and give a nice shine, they are not true ceramic coatings and only last about as long as wax.

    In summary, there are much better and (sometimes) easier to use products to protect your paint and enhance gloss these days. Don't get me wrong, I like the look of Collonite 845, but it's yesterday's news these days.

    BTW, you mentioned Aerospace 303 Protectant. How are you using it? I ask because as good as that product is in the proper application, it washes off in the first rainstorm and thus is not well suited to external use on a vehicle - especially on paint.
     
  3. Dec 28, 2021 at 5:11 AM
    #33
    Beachguy

    Beachguy Normal turned up too loud

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    Thanks for that detail Two Stroked. In the event I wanted to pay a professional to apply a ceramic coating, give some pointers for choosing someone. What questions should I ask about their process? What specific product should they be using that indicates their knowledge and expertise? There are lots of detail shops and car washes that claim to to detail work around. Help me narrow the field.
     
  4. Dec 28, 2021 at 9:27 AM
    #34
    suaveflooder

    suaveflooder New Member

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    oh I knew he was correct on there being other options. And agreed, collinite is 10+ year old news. It is easy to apply and easy to buff out. A $15 bottle lasts me 2 years+. Just always has worked for me.

    I’m going to look into the ceramic! It sounds great. I appreciate you taking time to write it out :)

    I use aerospace on both outside and inside, but I also live in a place that rarely rains. What would you suggest for the outside? Is there anything that won’t wash off?

    Once again, thank you for responding! :cheers:
     
  5. Dec 28, 2021 at 10:51 AM
    #35
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked New Member

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    Hmmm, interesting question. I'll offer my opinions, so please take them as just that.

    First of all, I'd shy away from car washes for ceramic coatings. Actually, I'd shy away from anyplace that utilizes minimum wage help to "detail." Nothing against those folks, but this is not a job you want somebody with minimal experience doing. Detailing in general - done the right way - takes years to learn how to do properly. (I've been at it for over 25 years.) Many "detail" shops just use spray on crap to make your vehicle look better. Sure, it looks pretty good (sometimes), but it will only last a few weeks before it washes right off. BTW, A dead giveaway as to how good (or bad) these places are is what they charge. Said another way, you get what you pay for - if you get my drift.

    You can usually tell a good detail shop by the way it looks when you walk in the door. If it's clean, organized and professional looking, you have a pretty good shot of getting decent work for them. I will warn you that a true professional detailer will charge a pretty good buck for a ceramic coating because like many things in life, it's all in the prep work. Most will offer / suggest a single or two-stage polishing / correction before the ceramic coating. This is critical and you don't want to skip it - even though it's expensive. Although most ceramic coatings do hide some surface marring, you really want to have as close to a perfect surface before you coat so as to look as perfect as possible after you ceramic coat.

    How much can you expect to pay for a really good ceramic coating? Again, this depends on how much work is involved. If somebody brings me a brand new sub-compact car to be ceramic coated, I generally tell them that it's going to cost at least $800 and maybe more depending on how much correction is needed. Larger vehicles with more correction and surface area go up significantly from there. You don't want to know how much I quoted a friend of mine to correct and coat his brand-new Kenworth 10-wheel dump truck. (I will admit to trying to scare him out of the work anyway because this thing is huge.) Oh, and the market I live in is actually cheaper than most larger urban markets where it's not at all unusual to pay 3-4 times that.

    As for what products to use, that's a tough one. Everybody has their personal favorites and they're going to recommend them. Most of the better detail shops only use top notch products anyway, so I wouldn't recommend telling them what to use. If somebody sounds like a used car salesman - and you'll know that right away - turn around and leave. There's much to be said about only working with folks you feel comfortable with.

    Hope that helps!

    Tom
     
    Beachguy[QUOTED] and S8ULATR like this.
  6. Dec 28, 2021 at 11:06 AM
    #36
    Too Stroked

    Too Stroked New Member

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    As for what product I'd recommend for home use, I'm still a fan of the original (not the "improved" formula) Jescar Power Lock. It goes on and comes off super easy and leaves a beautiful shine. Of course this assumes that your paint doesn't have a lot of marring that needs correction first. Just remember, any "all in one" product that promises to take a junkyard finish and make it look like new by simply wiping the product on and off is total BS. Although some look pretty good right after application, they're loaded with fillers to achieve that effect. Said another way, there's no substitute for polishing / correction prior to protection.

    I just did a quick online search and see that the original Power Lock is no longer available. The only thing I could find with the Power Lock + which has fillers in it. I can understand why they did that because the original did not have fillers and although it was a superior product when compared to most of their competitors, the average Joe wants something that makes their car look like new - instantly. I can only hope that the new product is as good as the old one.

    When it comes to 303, the only place I use it is inside my vehicles or on the vinyl seats in my boat. It's just not made for painted surfaces. Even in the boat, I end up re-applying it every 2-3 weeks because on wet swimsuit washes it off.

    Hope that helps!

    Tom
     
    S8ULATR and suaveflooder[QUOTED] like this.
  7. Dec 28, 2021 at 12:07 PM
    #37
    S8ULATR

    S8ULATR New Member

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    Sorry, good point, I could have thrown out some alternatives! I agree with TooStroked below. I am not a professional detailer, but have been a hobbyist for 20 years (can safely use a rotary, apply ceramic coatings etc...). My favorite is ceramic, however, as mentioned below, it is crucial to apply an LSP (last step protection ie wax/sealant/coating) to a clean and bare surface that has preferably been clayed & polished correctly, then sprayed with an IPA (alcohol and water) do remove the oils etc.. found in the polish. However, you can skip the polishing step and just clay the car if you are okay with the surface being "almost good enough" and that whatever imperfections you see will be locked in by the coating.

    For coatings, Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light is a quality coating. I have also been impressed (surprised myself) by the Adam's Polishes coatings (spray or in the bottle). Coatings are not difficult to apply at all, you just need to take your time. The biggest thing you need to focus on is making sure it is all removed. If not, you will be stuck with seeing it unless you polish (or in the extreme coatings case, sand) it off. The Adam's Polishes spray coating is a nice product and lasts at least a year.

    Another quality product is Gtechniq C2V3. It is literally spray on/buff off and lasts at least 4 months. You can layer it (apply multiple times), and it even will help hide imperfections. No drama, no worries about missing a spot on removal etc....

    My comment about waxes may have been harsh, they do provide a great shine and sometimes it is just fun to use them. The reality is they simply do not last nearly as long as some would like to believe. One drive through an automated car wash (yikes) or even a hand wash with a non-ph car soap and the wax is pretty much history.

    There is a TON of info on Youtube or the internet, just google Adam's Polishes, Gtechniq or even "detailing" and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to.
     
    suaveflooder[QUOTED] likes this.
  8. Dec 28, 2021 at 1:31 PM
    #38
    suaveflooder

    suaveflooder New Member

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    perfect!!! Thank you :). I live in BFE now and this is my first year here. Collinite has worked well so far, but I have always had a garage or had the truck covered. Like I said, i love new information! Gonna look these up and see what will work for me and give it a try.

    also gonna look into the ceramic that was mentioned as well. I need to repaint my hood first. The second week I had my 4 runner a rock hit the hood and actually lifted the paint. No idea how, but it’s frustrating. Looks like a ding, but I’ve taken it to multiple dent guys and they’ve all said the paint was lifted and it would need a repaint.
     
    S8ULATR[QUOTED] likes this.
  9. Dec 28, 2021 at 1:43 PM
    #39
    rickystl

    rickystl New Member

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    Thanks guys. Great Thread.
     

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