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The beast has left the building...

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by canadian.bacon, Oct 21, 2022.

?

Given you can afford it, would you trade your 4R for an EV of your choice?

  1. Yes

    15.2%
  2. No

    71.7%
  3. Yes, once range and charging improve

    13.0%
  1. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:09 PM
    #151
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    CR
    Carson Valley, NV
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    1990 22RE & 22 AG ORP KDSS
    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 34 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Yes, your timing was perfect.
     
  2. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:19 PM
    #152
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    Carson Valley, NV
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    1990 22RE & 22 AG ORP KDSS
    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 34 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    One thing you left out…..EVs are VERY heavy. The Ford lighting is close to 9k#! My 7k# Cummins is so front end heavy It sinks like a rock in soft stuff despite larger tires. My ancient 4R will wheel circles around it staying on top of the soft stuff.
     
  3. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:28 PM
    #153
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Snowland
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    The Model Y is about 200lb lighter than the 4Runner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
    Singleminded likes this.
  4. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:45 PM
    #154
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Good post. Keeping what you have is often smarter financially than trading it in on something new. And if you prioritize the longevity of your vehicle over most other considerations, it's very hard to beat the 4Runner -- don't matter whether the alternatives are ICE or EV. And then there's the very fair point that EV longevity isn't yet proven in the real world. There's some indication that today's batteries can last 200K miles, and the tech keeps improving. So there may come a day when it's clear that EVs are a smarter choice if you want to keep your car a long time. The cost of changing battery packs could end up being relatively cheap, and the overall cost of ownership over many years could be cheaper than your typical ICE -- especially when you consider the relative mechanical simplicity of the rest of the car. The opposite may also prove true. We just don't know yet.

    Longevity combined with a ton of utility were my main reasons for getting the 4R. I envisioned keeping it well into the age of EV dominance, just so I had such a vehicle with whatever relative benefits remain from ICE at that time. But my calculation is morphing a bit now. For one thing, I'm getting a new ICE sports car, so that could be a long term ICE in my garage, meaning I wouldn't have to rely on electricity alone for transportation. So my willingness to consider an EV replacement for the 4R is based in part on the fact that I'd still have an ICE to use when/if needed. For another, I'm increasingly seeing the potential for EVs to have not only their obvious advantages but also greater utility. In particular, the potential for one to charge their home. And to charge at their home. And potentially to fuel up when service stations are down or gas is otherwise hard to come by. Even the possibility of fueling up off the grid, especially if one can get their home off the grid. Those are vey big potential plusses for EVs, making them more useful overall than ICE.

    Having said all that, I think what I'd really like is to keep the 4R. And the ICE sports car. And then add an EV truck to the stable. But, well, that's a bridge too far financially. I'm very fortunate I can currently afford both the 4R (or its EV replacement) and the sports car at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  5. Oct 25, 2022 at 10:14 PM
    #155
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Trail Runnah likes this.
  6. Oct 26, 2022 at 6:09 AM
    #156
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

    Joined:
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    CR
    Carson Valley, NV
    Vehicle:
    1990 22RE & 22 AG ORP KDSS
    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 34 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Toyota has the 1990 2nd gen at 3,780#
    970# lighter than 5th gens 4750# curb weight.
    The 5th gen is a tank, my 2nd gen might be even lighter since it is a 4 cylinder/manual stripper.
    My 2nd gen is kind of a sleeper with a rear Detroit TruTrac and with just 30/9.50 x 15 tires @18psi combined with lighter weight surprises a lot of folks where it can go.
    With the TruTrac I can go places with 2wd that use to require 4wd with the open diff. Contemplating one for the front. I am fortunate to have BLM in my backyard.
    The only drawback of the TruTrac is they don’t work in reverse, the good news is they work fantastic in forward along with no air plumbing or wiring and is totally unnoticeable in daily driving on the street.
    The 5th gen won’t see any real 4wd action until the “newness” wears off or until Goldie goes to one of my offspring…..Probthe sa
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
  7. Oct 26, 2022 at 9:38 AM
    #157
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    My 2019 Limited with 3rd row is 5060lbs. Only mod is Ironman lift + standard load 285/70R17 tires. :drunk:
     
    Thatbassguy and Singleminded like this.
  8. Oct 26, 2022 at 2:30 PM
    #158
    TX4runner21

    TX4runner21 New Member

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    B-Rod
    Dallas, Texas
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    Fox Suspension, LFD Rack, Magnaflow Muffler
    Hot
     
  9. Oct 28, 2022 at 6:43 AM
    #159
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    1990 22RE & 22 AG ORP KDSS
    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 34 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Toyota.com has the limited at 4805# and the ORP at 4750#.
     
    kmeeg[QUOTED] likes this.
  10. Oct 28, 2022 at 6:59 AM
    #160
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    I see.. The actual weight of mine are 5000lbs for the TRD Pro and 5060 for my Limited.
     
  11. Oct 28, 2022 at 7:26 AM
    #161
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

    Joined:
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    CR
    Carson Valley, NV
    Vehicle:
    1990 22RE & 22 AG ORP KDSS
    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 34 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Toyota.com has the Pro at 4750 like ORP as well…..
    maybe dry weight?
    23gal gas X 7#/gal =163#
    Plus coolant + ATF + gear oils?
     
  12. Oct 28, 2022 at 7:44 AM
    #162
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    My TRD Pro - 5000lbs - Empty vehicle with full tank of gas, additional weight RCI skids + RSG sliders, and maybe few lbs for additional lights & wiring
    My Limited - 5060lbs - Empty vehicle with full tank of gas, additional Ironman shocks (I guess heavier than stock xreas) + 285/70R17 SL tires
     
  13. Nov 21, 2022 at 8:45 PM
    #163
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Snowland
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    1st month update.
    I see the poll is an 80% no at this time, which is understandable. To be honest, I did not expect it to be this high against.
    Due to some family issues, we were not able to drive as much as we wanted to. We only did 1660 miles this month, which puts us at around 20.000 miles per year. We missed two trips to Cleveland (over 600 miles each), a few camping trips and we are still working from home.
    Snow driving: a few nasty days this year, we got some of the 6ft storm around Buffalo, it wasn't pretty. It handles well, the AWD system is decent, I do not have winter tires yet as everything is sold out. The 4R with Falkens does better in deep snow and slush, but the Tesla is better in compacted, thin snow. Probably the AWD against the RWD.
    Towing: we didnt have a chance to tow the trailer just yet. More to come later on.
    Issues: none at this time.
    Costs: I know lots of you are looking at this. We didnt go anywhere at all far from home, so we didnt even get the chance to use a supercharger. All charging was done at home, mostly off-peak. We are at 40$ cad ($29.79usd) for 1660 miles, 31 days. This puts it at around 55.72 miles per 1 US dollar. The other way around, this is 1.7 US cents per mile. Using a supercharger will definitely change the numbers. I think I saw that using a supercharger most of the time will be the same as a Corolla level on gas alone.
    No complaints yet. Just started to see the real cold weathe driving, will post again with the range loss. Not like the 4R would be better in the cold.
    Verdict: so far, we do not miss the 4Runner. I wish there was just a tad higher of the ground. I think we got used to the trucks as well, and the 4R is definitely higher.

    We miss the 4Runner while the storm is raging, I'll be honest on that. That beast never let us down and it made me feel we could go anywhere anytime. I dont have the same feeling with the Tesla, maybe at least not yet. The all-seasons definitely to no help.

    Another update in 30 days.

    4D8DE991-6637-469A-92FB-8921F3CA8CB7.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
  14. Nov 21, 2022 at 10:22 PM
    #164
    TX4runner21

    TX4runner21 New Member

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    B-Rod
    Dallas, Texas
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    Fox Suspension, LFD Rack, Magnaflow Muffler
    Man, that mileage cost impressive! I think most people don’t realize how much more expensive ice vehicles are to operate fuel wise. Also crazy to think newer T4R’ s are heavier than my 4th gen with a v8
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  15. Nov 22, 2022 at 2:37 AM
    #165
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    I've heard conflicting reports regarding cost of electricity and operating EVs.

    I know folks in some areas find that EVs are more expensive to operate than ICE vehicles. I believe that is the case down in California. Up here, we rely on hydro-power from the Snake River dams that the environmentalists have so far been unsuccessful in removing. If they succeed, it will cause our costs to skyrocket. We currently export excess power to the California grid and if the dams are removed, then California is doubly screwed.

    I heat with natural gas and use electric for water heating, lights, cooking, washer and dryer, and supplemental heat. My total level-pay bill per month, year round, that includes electric and natural gas is $100. I'm very happy with that amount.

    My current rate is $.08 per KwH. Last month I used 344 kWh, or about $30 worth of electricity.

    My little garage has 220v service to it, and I commute 15 miles each way to work. An EV would be great for me. But, since my current gas bill is around $150 a month or less (I also have a 2007 Chevy HHR that I drive to work most of the time), there is no way that buying an EV would save me any money in the long run.

    In order for an EV to make economic sense, you have to both drive a ton of miles and pay a ton for gas, which the OP does, so good for him. I respect his decision and reasoning.

    For the vast majority of people, an EV is simply an expensive virtue-signaling device that actually harms the planet more than the typical ICE vehicle.
     
  16. Nov 22, 2022 at 3:15 AM
    #166
    HotelMedicis

    HotelMedicis No Commercial Interests

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    Those are interesting weights. My 2023 J150 series SR5 2WD is listed at 4,400 pounds on toyota.com, a full 405 pounds less than the listed weight of the limited and a full 700+ pounds less than my J100 series Land Cruiser.
     
  17. Nov 22, 2022 at 3:17 AM
    #167
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    Interesting look at electricity rates by state...

    https://quickelectricity.com/cost-of-electricity-per-kwh-by-state/

    Hawaii is the highest at $.40 per kWh. California is second at $.27. So, if you lived in California, the monthly cost of 475 kWh would cost you $130, which is still much cheaper than gas. If you only charge at home.

    However, the Supercharger stations cost $.58 per kWh during peak demand times, which is when most people are either trying to go to work, or coming home from work.

    https://teslanorth.com/2022/05/12/tesla-increases-supercharging-prices-in-california-and-beyond/

    So, that's now a $275 bill based on 475 kWhs.

    A Google search showed that the kWh usage of the Tesla Y is rated at 28 kWh per 100 miles, so your results are just barely a bit high, likely due to colder temps and hills.

    In California, it would cost $16.25 to travel 100 miles. If you had a comparable SUV, like an Acura RDX, which averages 24 mpg, then it would cost $27 to travel the same 100 miles at $6.50 per gallon.

    https://www.acura.com/2022/rdx

    Still coming out ahead with the EV. But, the RDX costs around $45k while the Model Y is around $70k.

    To save $25k in fuel, at the average of 1000 miles per month, and $110 in savings per month, it would take approximately 19 years to break even.
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  18. Nov 22, 2022 at 3:30 AM
    #168
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    Don’t forget to factor in the lack of maintenance costs.
     
  19. Nov 22, 2022 at 3:30 AM
    #169
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    I went to the dump last month with my utility trailer, which is listed at 993 lbs. But, it is lifted with bigger tires and a headache rack, so I would add 70 lbs. Call it 1,065 lbs.

    The total weight of the empty trailer, the 4Runner, plus me, and at least 100lbs of gear in the back was 6,280 lbs. I weigh 300 lbs, so minus me and the gear is around 400 lbs, so 5,880 lbs. Remove another 1,065 lbs for the trailer, and I am at around 4800 lbs for a lifted 4Runner with roof rack and 285s on custom rims.
     
  20. Nov 22, 2022 at 3:38 AM
    #170
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    Maintenance costs for the Acura that would be different for the Tesla would be what? Oil changes? Air filters? Both use tires, windshield wipers, cabin air filters, headlight bulbs, etc.

    However, the Tesla Model Y is known for wearing out tires at 20k miles or less, so tire costs are significantly higher. The Performance model is known to go through tires at less than 10k miles and are $500 each.
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  21. Nov 22, 2022 at 7:12 AM
    #171
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    tires every 10k, I don't see people accepting that. But, I was talking about the lack of oil changes. I have heard that Teslas do go through tires quicker, but I think that has more to do with driving styles, I know if I am not careful with the accelerator on our Rav4 Prime, it will tear up the tires.
    I am not an EV or bust type of person, but I think it's only fair to give them a chance. I will say, when you go months at a time never going to the gas station, that is a dam good feeling.
     
  22. Nov 22, 2022 at 8:29 AM
    #172
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    Don't forget the units, its KMs not Miles.

    I also wonder why Tesla doesn't give some of the maintenance items like transmission as they use the same transmission fluid. Same story for coolant maintenance. Seems to claim as "Life time" thing. May be minor things like "when DRLs burn out.." might be an interesting topic to search. (yes I picked "DRL" for a reason :)). Few more things about main battery as well but not interested as this is 4Runner forum..



    upload_2022-11-22_8-59-41.jpg
    upload_2022-11-22_9-7-28.jpg
     
  23. Nov 22, 2022 at 9:02 AM
    #173
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @kmeeg

    What do you mean by: "I also wonder why Tesla doesn't give some of the maintenance items like transmission as they use the same transmission fluid." ?

    For the battery coolant:
    "Your Battery coolant should not need to be replaced for the life of your vehicle under most circumstances. However, the touchscreen displays a message if there is an issue with the quantity of fluid in the cooling system. Stop driving Model Y as soon as safety permits and contact Tesla."
    "To maximize the performance and life of the Battery, the cooling system uses a specific mixture of G-48 ethylene-glycol coolant (HOAT). Contact Tesla for more specific information about the coolant."

    As for the tires, they are more expensive as they are 19" on low profile. It will be $1500 cad installed for Continental Vikings7 (we do pay 13% tax for the tires and for the service). I assume the 20" and 21" will be even more expensive. Plays the same on the 4R Limited, don't those have 20"? My last Ram 1500 was on 20" and winters were close to $2000 for a name brand.
    And changing them every so often, that relates to smiles per miles. I still grin like an idiot every time I push the pedal. Most of the time I drive normal, but here and there I do enjoy the torque. I'm sure it is the same for v8 Mustangs and all. There is a setting to change from standard to chill, this limits the power to the wheels. I never used it.
    Also, I am rarely, very rarely using the brake. I have days before I actually press the pedal in traffic. The regen stops the car and just holds the motors still till I touch the accelerator again. They call it one pedal driving. It's awkward at first, but you get accustomed to it very quick. Makes for a more relaxed drive. Lots of people manage to change their pads first at 120-125k miles.
     
  24. Nov 22, 2022 at 9:32 AM
    #174
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    Just checking about items like transmission service on Tesla not easily findable vs available on Tesla service technician checklist & online forums / youtube.

    upload_2022-11-22_10-27-20.jpg
     
  25. Nov 22, 2022 at 10:07 AM
    #175
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @kmeeg I think only the model S '13 - '16 had that, none of the other ones have it. As far as I know where is some fluid for the reduction gear, but that is not the same as transmission, as there are no gears.

    Edit, found this:

    The Tesla gearbox is a set of reduction gears whereas a transmission has multiple gear sets allowing different output speeds as an engine goes through its revolutions. The Tesla gearbox uses a lubricant but transmission fluid is specific to automatic transmissions and it is not a lubricant. The gearbox has a filter and since it does not heat up like a conventional gasoline powered transmission Tesla does not specify a replacement schedule for this lubricant. Early Tesla service intervals called for replacing this lubricant at 500,000 mile intervals but the company no longer calls for it.
     
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  26. Nov 22, 2022 at 10:19 AM
    #176
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    Seems to be mismatch between this article (500,000 mile) vs what Tesla Service technicians check list (150,000 miles).

    Anyways I learn about this transmission from WeberAuto. That professor explains really well how Tesla motor+transmission work and how they differ from each model and trim. Its just for my learning as I'm very far from in the interest of buying. :)
     
  27. Nov 22, 2022 at 10:36 AM
    #177
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Given how Toyota has very large intervals for the 5 speed, I would assume the Tesla gearbox to run way longer as there is no heat, no contaminants, no fumes, no gears.
    I found an older 2019 post about somebody who changed it at Tesla and labor was $78
     
    kmeeg[QUOTED] likes this.

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