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The beast has left the building...

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by canadian.bacon, Oct 21, 2022.

?

Given you can afford it, would you trade your 4R for an EV of your choice?

  1. Yes

    15.2%
  2. No

    71.7%
  3. Yes, once range and charging improve

    13.0%
  1. Oct 25, 2022 at 3:30 AM
    #91
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    Sherpa Crestone.
    Toyota warranties for 10 years 150k miles.
     
    canadian.bacon[OP] likes this.
  2. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:06 AM
    #92
    LakeEffect

    LakeEffect New Member

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    x2.....Kids in 100 years are going to be reading in text books about how cars once ran on gasoline and think it's absolutely crazy. There is obviously a lot to figure out but they will and it will happen. I don't want one right now but I'm certainly not going to knock a guy for trying it. Good for you!
     
  3. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:38 AM
    #93
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Blah blah blah, gawd is this tiresome
     
  4. Oct 25, 2022 at 6:55 AM
    #94
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    I know people with under a year old Tesla's that needed battery replacements. They bought them brand new. Yes this is multiple people with their own Tesla. Trash cars with trash build quality.
     
  5. Oct 25, 2022 at 7:08 AM
    #95
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Just 280k, The first +200k were hard miles, mostly urban stop-go/bumping off curbs(a lot), it was mostly a soccer mom car, essentially my wife’s car the first 14yrs. Since then it is my around town/4 wheeler/spare vehicle.
    Not assuming anything, just making a comparison. I have nothing against EVs. My son was a production line trouble shooter Mechanical Engineer MS at the Fremont plant for 5yrs and helped turn the Model 3 production around and I was very proud of it.
    Line workers on the Model X line wrap the front of their boots heavily with duct tape as not to scratch the door/jam when they wedge it in the door closure and have another worker push and bend the door to fit. Unlike the Japan 4R assembly line, if a Tesla worker has a problem and stops the line he is drawn and quartered where in Japan it is expected of the worker to address quality problems.
    That said, I just think they cannot compete head to head with ICEs…..yet. When battery tech/recharging infrastructure reaches that point I will probably own one myself.
    Right now if you had a 8yr old EV with a spent battery and wanted to trade or sell it, it would be similar to trading/selling a ICE vehicle with a bad engine. How much value would it have? The battery replacement cost needs to be factored in with the gas savings over that time period just like ICE maintenance cost.
    I have yet to replace the engine on the 4R or even pull the head, just timing cover/crank seal, timing chain/guides, water pump, clutch, exhaust donuts, valve cover gaskets, spark plugs/cap&rotors and a TPS, all for less than $500….in 33yrs. I would be willing to bet suspension, brake, steering replacement parts are much more expensive and not as available on a Tesla than a 33yr old 4R.
    I did not want to create any animosity, just wanted to point out the current EVs have some drawbacks that ICEs don’t have.
    Battery technology is still evolving and are very expensive to replace.

    Edit: forgot, new CVs but now with the selectable hubs the new ones should last a very long time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  6. Oct 25, 2022 at 7:10 AM
    #96
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    What will an EV be worth on trade-in or sale if it needs a new pack? Is it worth replacing?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  7. Oct 25, 2022 at 7:35 AM
    #97
    Trail Runnah

    Trail Runnah New Member

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    SOMEBODY has to jump on board with new technologies, if not we'd still be living in caves and walking. (...you want me to ride a horse?? I can walk, no way am I getting on that thing...)

    I'd honestly love to be able to go out and buy a Rivian SUV tomorrow, but that will forever be out of budget, and I have nowhere to plug it in.

    I AM looking forward to buying a hybrid for my next vehicle, I'm hoping something in the 4Runner/Wrangler class will be available by then. The 4XE is an interesting first effort but I'm sure the next gen will be much better.

    Right now, the only hybrid I'd be interested in owning (and it pains me to say it) is the Kia Sorento. Tons of features, AWD, 38mpg, for around 35K. This is still way more than I should realistically spend on a vehicle, but at least it's doable if I had to.

    I'm hoping to see a 4R hybrid, but I'm afraid that will be prohibitively expensive for me.
     
  8. Oct 25, 2022 at 7:56 AM
    #98
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @2ndGen22re @Nano909
    For failed battery packs within 200.000km or 8 years, you get a new battery pack for free. Beyond that, it will be expensive (probably). Also there are so many cars with failed engines or transmissions right from the dealer lot, all manufacturers. I would say Toyota is better at this, but not across the line-up. 4Runner, yes, very rare.
    Failed backup resale value, probably just like the other cars with a dead engine.
    You guys are spoiled on this forum, nothing ever breaks, try to spend a week on the ramforumz and it will be an eye opener :)

    Trash cars with trash build quality. - to each his own. Mine came spotless inside out, perfect, no panel gaps, no issues (yet), excellent pain job, you say it. It is better than my last 2 Mustangs, 3 Ram 1500s. Given they have been making cars for only 18 years, I say they are doing pretty good compared to GM/Ram/Ford and many others.

    At this point, it is not any worse or better than the 4Runner in terms of build quality and materials. They are both capable in their own distinct way. Reliability is another question entirely, one I decided to put up with. The 4runner has its own issues too: wheel shimmy, needle bearing...replacing an Xreas after 5-7 years is expensive and not worth it...

    On the bright side, when I have an issue, I just whip out my phone and open a service request and (if easy enough), they show up at my house and fix it on the driveway. No more dealers, same as the sale process: no dealers, no finance bullshit, no insurance, no add-ons, no markups, no undercoating, no etching, no gap insurance, no low-balling on the trade in, no "let me go run the numbers with my manager", no sleazy salesman.

    Please feel free to ask me any questions about how we deal without the 4Runner. I will be honest, we miss it. Our beautiful gas-pig :)

    I noticed I have 6.8" of grounding clearance (not 9.6" as the 4R) and I found I have an off-road option in the setup. I can still go gravel roads and very light trails :)
     
  9. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:10 AM
    #99
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Note: This thread is not to try to convince you that an EV is better or otherwise. This is simply a comparison (mine, as a 4Runner fanboy) between before and after the 4Runner. There is no hatred, no rudeness, you take what you want out of it. No politics, no bashing on brands. Some don't like it, some are about to pull the trigger, some are on the fence. I will lay down all the goods and bads as they come, no shame.

    @Trail Runnah @Nano909
    Eventually all Toyota line up will be electric, like all the other manufacturers - wherever we like or not. You will be forced to buy one, you wont be able to keep your trusty old 33 old 4Runner. Nobody will want to insure you due to safety concerns (self driving, unable to replace or evaluate for cash payout, etc), environmental politically correct ideas, taxed, they will be very creative to make you an outcast on the road. Prices will not stay this high forever, there is no competition and there are lots to be recouped in R&D.

    The biggest difference that i saw in 3 days: it costs us 1.75 cents (yes, less than 2 cents) in electricity (charging at home off-peak) to run 1 mile. From this try adding it up a bit:
    100 miles - $1.75, 1000 miles $17.50, 10.000 miles $175. We don't add tires cause we all change them anyway. But no oil changes, no transmission oil changes, no transfer cases, these add up as well. I will change the brake pads at 150.000 miles, at least.

    There will be a day when this forum will have big fights about the new 4Runner hybrid or even full electric. I wouldn't be surprised to be hybrid on the 6th gen. Toyota makes the best and most reliable hybrid powertrains out there. I know peeps with Priuses as taxi service and they are 400-500.000 kms (300.000 miles) and still going strong.
    I'd buy a hybrid 4Runner tomorrow.
    Like I said, a few weeks paying over $8/gal will change your perspective instantly, trust me; while filling up the 4Runner, I was carrying the jar of Vaseline and had to take it like a man.
     
  10. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:16 AM
    #100
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    How much for a new pack after 150K?
     
  11. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:24 AM
    #101
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    I'd like to see them try it. As the old saying goes, "Come and take it" :cool:

    Most men won't roll over and take it like the EV shills on this thread. I understand you're not trying to preach EV's to everyone, but you're posting this irrelevant crap on a 4runner forum. I don't want to hop on this forum and see any off topic nonsense (I think there's an entire sub-forum dedicated to off topic stuff) and lots of other people don't either, so you're bound to get comments from very annoyed people like myself.

    And yes, trash car with trash build quality. My Audi is leagues ahead in quality for the same price. I don't expect top tier quality from a Toyota, I do however expect it to run for years to come. I understand they don't build 4runners as good as my 1st gen Tacoma though, but at least I won't have to worry about a $25k battery going out and rotting in a field somewhere lol
     
    2ndGen22re likes this.
  12. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:28 AM
    #102
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Probably the same as a new engine for an 8 years old car. Prices are not what they used to be. They will start making these packs en-mass, no vehicle manufacturer wants to be known for their 20k-30k battery replacements or repairs.

    I had 3 Rams 1500 and a couple of Fords and GMs. My older Topaz burned to a crisp on the side of highway, didnt even have time to get my CDs out of the car. My 2.4 equinox engine was eating oil the same way I drink beer: none stop. My trusty Roadmaster rusted through, as in I was driving with a piece of plywood under the rotten carpet.
    I will worry about them problems later on, when they come. 8 years is a very long time in today's day and age.

    On the same account, how much to change a frame on an 8 years old 4Runner (or Taco, or Tundra). How much to fix a turbo on the new Tundra, when you have to lift the damn cab out?
    It is all relative after-all. Buy what you want and enjoy every second of it. Life is too short to be bitter for my purchases or trying to convince me what an idiot i am for buying an EV. It is a done deal now, too late to back out of it.
     
    Singleminded and Trail Runnah like this.
  13. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:33 AM
    #103
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    I will ask the mods to move this to the Off topic, indeed.
    As for your discomfort in reading the title of my topic, just scroll past it. No need to call names and all, we are all adults here.
     
  14. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:33 AM
    #104
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    No animosity intended, just pointing out EVs at this point in time are still evolving. Maybe when the solid state packs arrive I will come on board.
     
  15. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:38 AM
    #105
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    The title is perfectly vague enough to want to know what it's about. If you had typed "Another 4runner traded for a Tesla" as the title, then I for sure wouldn't have clicked and kept scrolling.

    Did I miss something, who did I name call?
     
  16. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:41 AM
    #106
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    It's pretty easy to just not click on threads that don't interest you. ;)

    It's fine if you don't want an EV. I don't either.. yet.
    Well, maybe as a second vehicle.

    But, a lot of us are actually interested in hearing about someone's first hand experience with one, especially since @canadian.bacon bought it to escape fuel price, as opposed to the self congratulating wannabe environmentalist types.

    I'm personally interested, because I think he'll give some honest feedback.
     
  17. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:48 AM
    #107
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    How would I know if this thread interests me or not until I click it? Like I said in my last reply, it's not like it's clear what this thread is about if you're going by the title name o_O

    All kinds of info can be found about Tesla's poor build quality and parts failures on Tesla forums. I and many others don't want to read Tesla stuff on a 4runner forum. There's a place for off topic stuff and this isn't it.

    As for escaping high fuel prices, I think we can all agree that no one buys a 4runner expecting to have good fuel economy. The sticker literally tells you that lol
     
  18. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:50 AM
    #108
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Sorry, didn’t mean to cause a ruckus…..comparing a EV to a 4R is apples to oranges. You don’t buy a 4R for fuel efficiency. Heck, my 7,000# Cummins gets better fuel mileage than either of my 4Rs.
     
  19. Oct 25, 2022 at 8:58 AM
    #109
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    I have requested the thread to be moved to Offtopic, as noted.
    I'm more and more impressed what people find offensive these days. That's why we cant have nice things.
    If the thread gets closed because some cant take another individual's different opinion, thank them. I truly thought some insight would be nice for others like me, hands on, from one extreme to the other. No many posts like this on the net without bias, lies, fanboysm and hidden agendas.
     
  20. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:00 AM
    #110
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 33 yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac, 1”rear spring spacer and “pinstripes”… Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Like I said before, no offense intended. Mostly just stating what my son’s observations are and he is very knowledgeable the subject.
    Basically the car itself really means very little, it’s all about battery technology.

    Yet another edit:
    Upper management and the engineers could take home a test mule for the weekend(when available). My son got to drive a Plaid and he said it was incredible. He also said he wouldn’t touch a Model X with a ten foot pole, the gull wing doors are highly problematic as the quality of the door hinges from multiple suppliers are all over the map as well as the door stampings themselves.
    The Model 3 is A MUCH better vehicle, you bought the right one. A small thanks should go to my son who slugged it out doing 12hr days hammering out Model 3 body production problems. He is competent at machining from his R&D scientific intern days and Tesla management were blown away when a engineer could go directly to the machine shop and modify a part handling fixture from a robot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  21. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:03 AM
    #111
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @2ndGen22re The idea of the thread is/was that we continue to do 4Runner things with the new vehicle. This will include comparisons in terms or cost and performance for long trips, towing our trailer, sleeping in the car, even some small trails.
     
  22. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:05 AM
    #112
    UncleShorty

    UncleShorty New Member

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    You gas engine guys do realize that there will never be a higher trade-in value for your smoke buggy than today, right?

    You're ridin a dinosaur, literally, (fossil fuel), and figuratively...

    As engineers improve and inovate electrical technology electric drives will replace obsolete, less reliable, more expensive prime movers.

    Gasoline driven 4Runners, like all internal combustion engines, are museum pieces... some people just won't admit it.
     
  23. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:05 AM
    #113
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    Except you can't do 4runner things without a 4runner. You're just doing "other car things" now.
     
  24. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:06 AM
    #114
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    Literally no one cares. Sell your ICE vehicle and buy a Tesla then move on :burp:
     
  25. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:08 AM
    #115
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    You obviously knew what the topic was when you decided to reply. Maybe just ignore it now that you know.

    Btw, NOBODY is forcing you to read this!

    I'd love to hear from anyone else who is actually upset that we're talking about Teslas. I'll bet it's a very short list, and most people are able to ignore topics that don't interest them.

    Correct: nobody here expected to get good fuel economy with a 4Runner. But, not everyone expected fuel prices to skyrocket quite as much as they have. You'll notice that I said "fuel price" not "bad fuel economy."
     
  26. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:32 AM
    #116
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    I know people who have brand new ICE vehicles that are junk as well, the reason we have lemon laws.
     
  27. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:32 AM
    #117
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    Yea, unfortunately they won’t stop until the thread is deleted.
    Impressed how many people showed interest and expressed their intentions to do the same, sooner or later, asking the right questions. Then you have others being offended about what they read on a thread they can easily ignore.
    I’ll let the thread cool a little and make updates now and then, in the off topic section. Not sure why the EV hate, nobody is making you buy one.
    I tried to be non political, non brand, non fanboy, non environmental nut.
    Meh, why do I even bother ?
     
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  28. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:34 AM
    #118
    Nano909

    Nano909 New Member

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    ICE have a great track record of reliability, Tesla does not.
     
  29. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:36 AM
    #119
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @Nano909 no, you brought politics into it it. I was only taking about parallels between the vehicles. We already settled the reasons. LOL, I don’t even care who is elected there, I am in a different country.

    Anyway, not sure why I even care about this anymore, you ruined a good thread.
     
  30. Oct 25, 2022 at 9:45 AM
    #120
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon [OP] H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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