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Starting Bilstein lift tonight w/my son

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by P50Runn, May 18, 2018.

  1. Jun 9, 2018 at 6:11 PM
    #31
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Question: I just want my rig to look level. Are fox 2.0 coilovers IFP would work? And do I need a new UCA for it? Again, I just want to look level so I won’t have a nose dive and heavy steering since I installed the Warn Bumper and winch and TRD Skid Plate. Thanks!
     
  2. Jun 9, 2018 at 7:16 PM
    #32
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    The Bilstein people told me you wouldn’t need to worry about front bumper and winch with nylon rope using the 6112’s.


    Not a full bumper just the center push bar type.

    Also they said (many people told me, including Bilstein ) you should consider UCA’s because it repositions the geometry so it keeps everything within spects. You don’t need adjustable UCA’s however, which it seems that everyone advocates.
    The 4wheel drive shop here in SLC and in Moab told me, only if you are having problems aligning the vehicle where adjustable UCA comes into play. By default you wouldn’t have any problems. If your wheeling 40% of the time and puttin it through hell and back, adjustable UCA’s may be needed. But a 80% daily driver / 15% ovelanding and 5% rugged wheeling, you won’t need adjustable UCA in my opinion based on research I’ve been doing. since your doing 2” as well, that is another factor you won’t need adjustable.

    I ordered the Camburg UCA’s.
    https://wheelersoffroad.com/i-31426...per-control-arm-set.html?ref=category:1389056
     
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  3. Jun 9, 2018 at 9:37 PM
    #33
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Wow! Well said. Thanks so much! So if I use this Camburg? Is this adjuster? Maybe mine is 95% daily.
     
  4. Jun 9, 2018 at 10:32 PM
    #34
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    I might just do 1.5" so it will look level to the rear. I hope this would solve heavy steering and nose dive since I installed Warn bumper and winch with steel cable plus the TRD skid plate.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2018 at 2:05 AM
    #35
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    You could switch to a nylon rope and save 50 -85 lbs, not sure how much the steel cable weighs. I wouldn’t get adjustable UCA’s, I don’t think it’s needed but that’s me. I’m doing 1.75” front, 1.5” rear (OEM spring and 1.5” spacer) which I think the OP did and you can see how his leveled out.

    Also if anyone didn’t know. The reason most auto manufactures have a negative rake (front is lower than rear) is a safety factor for when involved in a collision the front sinks down even more when breaking which causes the engine block to drive down lower at an angle Causing the engine to crush down and under you as oppose to having the engine in your lap.
     
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  6. Jun 10, 2018 at 5:15 AM
    #36
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner Moderator Staff Member

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    Mad driver mod. OME Suspension. 285/70R17 BFG AT KO2
    @PCRIDE4RUNNER technically it’s referred to as synthetic rope not nylon. People might assume that going to HD and picking up 100’ of nylon rope would suffice

    The weight saving from switching to synthetic over wire rope is about 40lbs.

    I ran 3/8”x100’ of Amsteel on my previous winch and really liked it.
     
  7. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:19 AM
    #37
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    Thank you! I couldn’t remember the technical name. Yes don’t just buy rope at HD!!
     
  8. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:26 AM
    #38
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Reading all these makes me go Bilstein 5100 on both. I never thought of the safety reason about the rake which is a big factor. I saw SPC UCA and Bilstein lift kit adjustable. However if using that, will they use my stock coil in the front?
     
  9. Jun 10, 2018 at 9:49 AM
    #39
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    Subaru's also made in Japan like the 4Runner, the engine is designed to push down into the ground on a collision. I thought that was really some good engineering!

    I contemplated the 5100's but ended up going with the 6112's. Check out the comparison.
    https://www.shocksurplus.com/pages/bilstein-6112-or-5100-shocks-know-before-you-buy

    I am not sure if the 6112's are too beefy for what I need. I might exchange for the 5100's... I'll have to ask the dealer.

    From what I read on the UCA's here are some paraphrased statements from random forums.

    SPC's - These are a lower end /budget brand UCA, but highly desired because the price is around $200 lower than other UCAs. I don't think the quality is as good as it could be (durability, bolts etc...)

    LR's (Light Racing) good for overlanding a bit better than SPC's?

    Chaos - Made for super rugged wheeling adventure types. Bilstein told me every 2 weeks you need to wipe the ball join with a micro-fiber cloth and oil the joint. Requires too much maintanence

    Camburg - A lot of people liked the build of these. The parts are built to aircraft specifications (durability, bolt strength etc.. )

    "However if using that, will they use my stock coil in the front?"

    I was told you have to use the coils that come with the bilsteins, or I guess you could use another aftermarket equiv. OEM coils aren't compatible. I guess its better to go with a matched set anyways.

    I ordered this set and will install next week! I found them on the site below. This site was the cheapest cost out of all sites I checked. Their local to Utah as well if you live here and can pick them up at the store.

    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspens...spx?t_c=1&t_s=358&t_pt=9333&t_pn=BIL47-259768

    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspens...aspx?t_c=1&t_s=90&t_pt=3306&t_pn=BIL25-227611

    Here are the 5100's
    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspens...aspx?t_c=1&t_s=90&t_pt=3306&t_pn=BIL24-196499



    Then their's the FOX brand which I would have considered (toyota is putting them on the TRD Pro 2019 model) but they are a bit expensive.

    The TRD Pro stock model only has the Front shocks as Bilsteins, the rear is OEM basic. I was surprised to see this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  10. Jun 10, 2018 at 10:40 AM
    #40
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Thanks so much! Now I’m getting 6112 and 5100 with Camburg UCA. I really appreciate it PCRide! And Bilstein I think are better in warranty than fox. All I want is a comfortable ride than my stock and better handling.
     
  11. Jun 10, 2018 at 10:42 AM
    #41
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    Check out this thread, there are some good comments about the differences between the 2 and ride
     
  12. Jun 10, 2018 at 11:17 AM
    #42
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    That’s informative. I’ll find the picture of the rig you were referring to so we have a base model what I wanted for lifting.
     
  13. Jun 10, 2018 at 11:28 AM
    #43
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    What tire is this and size?
     
  14. Jun 10, 2018 at 12:12 PM
    #44
    SlvrSlug

    SlvrSlug New Member

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    DISCOVERER S/T MAXX™
    Fits Trucks/PickupsAll-Season

    Discoverer S/T MAXX™ is rated 4.4 out of 5 by 91.
    [​IMG]
    find a store
     
  15. Jun 10, 2018 at 12:47 PM
    #45
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    275/70/17?
     
  16. Jun 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM
    #46
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    I talked to my buddy today who has solid experience in 4x4 over the years, anyways one comment he made about the 5100's vs the 6112's that stuck out. He said the 6112's have a plushier ride and better absorption in the shock where the 5100's require a stiffer coil to compensate for the lack of shock absorption. This means the shock is doing more work in the 6112's, rightly, thus a softer coil will make a smoother ride, even as a daily driver. and still perform well in the over-landing/wheelin The other comment he made about Fox vs Bilstien is that Fox will have better absorption at high rates of speed and prevent bottoming out, but may be stiffer. When he said this I thought of baja racing in the desert. Since I won't be doing much driving at high speed across semi-rugged terrain, I think the Bilsteins will do just fine. The other thoughts Fox is aluminum, Bilstein is steal, or coated zinc and corrosion rates due to salty winter roads could play into a decision, where aluminum might be more resistant. Maybe a painted Bilstein would do a lot better in rough climates.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTlwsKmMs4
     
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  17. Jun 10, 2018 at 2:37 PM
    #47
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    I had these cooper's AT Mud and snow on my 2004 jeep grand Cherokee and they did so good in the snow I've put another pair on them last year. Next to Blizak these were amazing in the snow and have an aggressive tread for other terrains
     
  18. Jun 10, 2018 at 2:53 PM
    #48
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    I was looking at the price for Bilstein 6112/5100 vs fox 2.0 CS IFP/Fox 2.0 IFP. Price difference is $250-275 the most. However I might just go Bilstein because I know most of my drive is highway so I'm for comfort ride and very few in Lake Tahoe for winter but not much. Maybe if Bay Area Unite may go out for a trail soon. I really appreciate your time and research. The best I read and heard so far. Ypu said you got 6112/5100 combo kit right? You mind how much you got them for?
     
  19. Jun 10, 2018 at 3:12 PM
    #49
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    I got the 6112's and 5160's. Note that the rear's I purchased have the remote oil reservoir. It was $960 with tax. Not sure if I was taxed because I live here, vs someone else buying out of state may not.

    If you wanted to go with a bit stiffer spring but stay as close as you can to OEM, Dobinson has a coil that I considered, but didn't want the slightly stiffer ride, I think with this Dobison coil you wouldn't need the 1.5" spacer for the rear.

    Keep in mind I remember the 4 wheel shop told me if you go with any of the Bilsteins, or anything other than OEM, you will need that 1.5" coil spacer if you are keeping the stock OEM coils for the rear. Because the 51xx have more travel, you need the additional space so you can get more travel and the shock works as its suppose to. Thats where if you get the Dobinson I mentioned in this thread previously. You wouldn't need the spacer because its already 1.5" taller coil than the OEM. I still may consider this down the road in the future. For now I don't need the upgraded rear coil. Once I get a camper, then I'll consider it.

    Here is what I purchased.


    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspens...spx?t_c=1&t_s=358&t_pt=9333&t_pn=BIL47-259768

    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspens...aspx?t_c=1&t_s=90&t_pt=3306&t_pn=BIL25-227611

    Check out this post on the 5100's vs the 5160's
    the 5160's have slightly different valving, one person said on a shock dyno there was no real difference other than having the remote reservoirs to reduce shock fade and better heat dispensation. I'm not an expert, just learned from the Experts here on the board (Thank you) and doing my own research! So I may not be seeing everything like others might. I figure I got a good configuration and later I may change it.
     
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  20. Jun 10, 2018 at 3:20 PM
    #50
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Still, Thanks so much. We all need theories. 4wheel Parts got me quoted for the fox 2.0 Coilover IFP/Fox 2.0 IFP for $993. $1661 total with labor, alignment and tax.
     
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  21. Jun 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM
    #51
    SlvrSlug

    SlvrSlug New Member

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    I just kinda thought if i showed you what tire it was, you could search for the size of your choice?
     
  22. Jun 11, 2018 at 4:27 PM
    #52
    nimby

    nimby New Member

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    Are you sure about this? I thought most trucks were lower in the front for 1) aerodynamics/fuel economy and 2) so they can beef up the rear to accommodate a higher payload.

    I'm pretty sure most cars today have breakaway points at the motor mounts where they allow the engine block to fall to the ground during significant impacts, regardless of the height of the front end.
     
  23. Jun 11, 2018 at 4:41 PM
    #53
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    Yea those other reasons as well. It’s a multi faceted design. probably more for aerodynamics like your saying, as well as control, turning, considering weight in the rear. I read it somewhere I’ll try to find the source.
     
  24. Jun 11, 2018 at 6:42 PM
    #54
    Joshs68

    Joshs68 New Member

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    I have had run ins with shops that did wonky alignments. I was told the pull was for road crown...I have had other alignments that were spot on, and spot on is so nice! I’d find another shop. Good luck.



     
  25. Jun 11, 2018 at 11:12 PM
    #55
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    6112 are backordered until end of July. I'm really getting tempted just to go all front and rear 5100. I know 95% of my drive is highway. I just want to resolve the heavy steering and nose dive and I wanted level looking ride.
     
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  26. Jun 12, 2018 at 5:39 AM
    #56
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    Their in stock ready to order. Get the 6112/5160’s combo. Even more research tells me these are much plushier than the 5100. Even for a daily driver so many people were very happy with this set up. 960$ our the door on 4wheel parts

    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspension/B8-6112-Series-Suspension-Kit.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=358&t_pt=9333&t_pn=BIL47-259768&utm_campaign=Off-Road+Parts+&+Accessories+-+4+Wheel+Parts&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_term=FTI&utm_content=7705524&textlink=linkID

    (back ordered)!!

    https://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspension/Bilstein-46mm-Monotube-Shock-Absorber-25-227611.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=90&t_pt=3306&t_pn=BIL25-227611&utm_campaign=Off-Road+Parts+&+Accessories+-+4+Wheel+Parts&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_term=FTI&utm_content=7705524&textlink=linkID

    There is a huge thread on 5100 vs 5160 and lift size on TRD Org.
    The consensus for a perfect level is using the Bilsteins setting on the shock as follows .85 front , stock rear. Keep OEM shocks

    Or

    1.75” lift front, 1” cornfed spacer rear, stock rear coil

    Or

    2.5” front, 1.5” rear using a 2” coil. Try one of the Dobinsons.

    You can do 265 or 275 tires and an no rubbing
     
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  27. Jun 12, 2018 at 1:06 PM
    #57
    P226Navy

    P226Navy 2016 T4R

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    Do you know if Bilstein need to be re-serviced after 50k plus miles?
     
  28. Jun 12, 2018 at 2:01 PM
    #58
    PCRIDE4RUNNER

    PCRIDE4RUNNER New Member

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    I saw one post they haven’t had any problems at 90K miles.

    The good thing is the 5160s are rebuildable
     
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