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So I test drove a Subaru Outback Wilderness

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by ShayBrah89, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. Sep 9, 2022 at 12:35 PM
    #61
    hossler1788

    hossler1788 New Member

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    My wife's outback has more truck space then my 4runner(obviously not in height) but its a longer
     
  2. Sep 9, 2022 at 12:43 PM
    #62
    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint

    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint New Member

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    14 Neglected by the previous owners 20 is a former rental... I've been buying above my pay grade ☹️
    My 2011 Outback had something like 38.3 cubic feet of cargo space behind the rear seats, if I recall correctly. I remember that the 2012 Prius V matched that exactly and got twice as much gas mileage ☹️

    The 5th generation 4Runners have 47.2 cubic feet of cargo room behind its second row and 89.7 cubic feet with the seats folded down. I park my 4Runner in the same spot I did my Outback, the 4Runner is wider too.

    I was contemplating being buying a Toyota Sienna as they have 100.7 cubic feet behind the driver's seats. I just couldn't justify buying either an engine with a common and expensive oil leak. The newer ones have plastic valve covers. It's one thing on a Prius, it's a very different thing on an all gas all the time engine...

    Note: I googled it and it turns out my numbers were off the 11OB was 34.3 cubic feet, 71.3 with the seats down. I believe I confused the RAV4 cargo numbers with the Outback. I've had a lot of cars in the last decade! Googling it, the RAV4 has 38.4 + 73.4.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
  3. Sep 9, 2022 at 4:25 PM
    #63
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    Yes, although simpler does not always equal more reliable.

    I can show you a simple Dodge motor taking a shit much earlier than a more complex Toyota motor.

    Nevertheless, it's a moot point.

    Our 4.0L have been around since 2003. That's almost 20 years of working out all the kinks. Literally anything else they put in the 6th gen will inherently be less reliable. Even if they put a brand new naturally aspirated V8 in the 6th gen, it will not be as reliable as our 4.0L's simply because it's new and unproven.
     
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  4. Sep 9, 2022 at 8:30 PM
    #64
    Klinsman55

    Klinsman55 New Member

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    It will be a hard decision. 5th gen vs 6th gen.

    I test drove a 2022 this week. Loved it except for the two times I was going uphill on highway on-ramp trying to get up to speed. Thought I was pushing down hard on peddle but didn’t really seem to move. I am at 5,000 ft elevation so that doesn’t help.

    if I went with 5th gen I’ll definitely need a peddle commander. My friend has 4Runner in same town and says makes big difference

    if I do 6th gen hopefully they will still make a non turbo 6 cylinder. I’d be somewhat hesitant on a turbo.

    wonder how the f150’s with turbo engines from 7-8 years ago are holding up
     
  5. Sep 11, 2022 at 6:54 PM
    #65
    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint

    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint New Member

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    14 Neglected by the previous owners 20 is a former rental... I've been buying above my pay grade ☹️
    Considering their brand new Broncos' engines are failing before 60,000 miles, I can make an educated guess that does F150 turbos haven't done so well.
     
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  6. Sep 11, 2022 at 7:30 PM
    #66
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Subaru —

    AWD system: one of the best
    Active safety systems: horrendous; lane keep assist is a sick joke
    Trans: el sucko - it’s a CVT, and apparently not a particularly good one
    Turbo motors: worse than average
    NA motors: I like ‘em, but maybe that’s just me
    Infotainment: worse than average
    Interiors: better than they used to be, but no better than average
    Assembly quality: at least average, maybe better

    New Subarus vs old Subarus: the old ones were much better

    Yes, I’ve had a lot of Subarus, and driven even more of them. The company has gone downhill. The only new one I’d ever consider is a manual trans BRZ. In fact I have one on order. But blessedly it is unlike any other Subaru. Maybe we have Toyota to thank for that.
     
  7. Sep 12, 2022 at 6:37 AM
    #67
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 32yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac and 1”rear spring spacer. Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    I have a naturally aspirated 22RE and agree that they are reliable as a pet rock….but this turbo subject is apples to oranges because the new Toyota twin turbo layout is incredibly complex in comparison. Did you know the new Tundra has a separate cooling system for EACH turbo? Separate water pump, radiator and cooling lines besides the engine cooling plumbing. The turbo waste gate is integrated into the turbo housings, if one goes bad you get to replace both and they are not easily assessable at all.
    The 22R-TE is MUCH simpler by far and would be less likely to have issues compared to the modern ones.
    I have a Cummins turbo as well but it is simple like the 22R-TE and a piece of cake to work on, not so with the modern bag of snakes engine compartment. Cooling hoses and electronics everywhere. Wherever there is a rubber hose connection there is a potential future leak and rubber does not last forever, they are a consumable.
    After reviewing the new Tundra setup in January we ran out and put a deposit on a 5th Gen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2022
  8. Sep 12, 2022 at 7:25 AM
    #68
    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint

    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint New Member

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    14 Neglected by the previous owners 20 is a former rental... I've been buying above my pay grade ☹️
    ∆∆∆This is a serious LOL phrase.∆∆∆
     
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  9. Sep 12, 2022 at 9:39 AM
    #69
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Exactly. A big reason why many of us love the 5th Gen and worry about the 6th Gen.

    I don’t complain about either the MPG or the acceleration because I get that there are always trade offs — and I prioritize durability, reliability and ease of repair.
     
  10. Sep 12, 2022 at 12:38 PM
    #70
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    I get what you're saying and agree with most of your points.

    But we're not getting a twin turbo in the 6th gen.

    We're getting the 2.4L Lexus NX motor. Single turbo.

    So simpler than a twin turbo and therefore more reliable, right? :)
     
  11. Sep 12, 2022 at 3:48 PM
    #71
    Klinsman55

    Klinsman55 New Member

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    2.4L turbo not sounding overly exciting to me. If they put 2023 4Runner on diet and it drops around 400-500lbs it’ll be same weight as Highlander that is getting that 2.4L turbo now. Will be interesting to see what people say about driving it.

    once people start adding bumpers and tents etc to their 4Runner the weight will go up again and be a strain for sure on that small 2.4L turbo engine

    the twin turbo they put in the tundra would be nice. unlikely they will use it.

    might have to look at the Ford Bronco Badlands with the 2.7L turbo. $54k with all the options I want.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2022
  12. Sep 12, 2022 at 4:27 PM
    #72
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 32yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac and 1”rear spring spacer. Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    Do you know if Toyota is using a variable geometry turbo or a fixed vane type?
    Edit: answered my own question, no they only use the variable turbos on Diesel engines. Variable turbos make LOTS of power….but they can have their own reliability issues.

    IMHO in-line engines are better for turbo charging, the in-line configuration lends itself for more straight forward plumbing vs vee engines. So, yes the 4cyl in theory should be better. There is still the high heat effect on the turbo bearings/coking oil. On my Cummins that is the reliability weak link with the turbo.

    I still like the basic simplicity of naturally aspirated throttle body/port injected engines like our 4L. The 4L has been used in Toyota and Lexus vehicles all over the world for over a decade and will still be in service after 2024 in other countries, parts will be available for a very long time.
    If I were to go with forced induction I think I would prefer supercharging. Granted it is not as efficient as turbocharging but once again the plumbing is a bit simpler and does not have such high under-hood temps as turbos do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2022
    nimby and Singleminded like this.
  13. Sep 12, 2022 at 4:46 PM
    #73
    ESCT4R

    ESCT4R New Member

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  14. Sep 14, 2022 at 9:05 AM
    #74
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    The 2.4L NX motor has better specs than our current 4.0L.

    NX:
    275hp @6,000 rpms
    317 ft/lbs of torque at 1,700 rpms

    4Runner:
    270 hp at 5,600 rpms
    278 ft/lbs of torque at 4,400

    The biggest benefit being the increase in torque in low range rpms. This will absolutely improve performance vs our current motors with things like bigger tires and more weight from whatever else......and that would be at our current weight.

    I do think they will trim some of the fat on the 4Runner and make the 6th gen a little lighter as well.
     
    Trail Runnah likes this.
  15. Sep 14, 2022 at 10:08 AM
    #75
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    This is so right on. Even if they turn out to be reliable, can imagine what it would be like looking for fluid or vacuum leaks in 10 years, after all the turbo heat cooks everything in the engine compartment? Huge disincentive to keeping a vehicle like this long-term, and to dispose of it early.

    There are plenty of used 20 year old civics, corollas, 4runners, etc out there. Because they are maintainable, because they are designed with more servicability in mind.
     
  16. Sep 14, 2022 at 1:58 PM
    #76
    Klinsman55

    Klinsman55 New Member

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    Addendum 9/14: test drove 4Runner again (without salesperson in car this time). Entered the on-ramp to highway and pretty much floored it to get up to speed to merge. Much better acceleration this time and good engine sound.
     
  17. Sep 14, 2022 at 4:42 PM
    #77
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    So do you guys plan on replacing every single vacuum hose, fuel hose, power steering hose, and radiator hose on your 5th gens at some point?
     
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  18. Sep 14, 2022 at 5:24 PM
    #78
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    I’ve actually had vehicles I liked long enough to have to do this, yes. If you have a reasonable amount of rubber hoses, you can deal with them one leak at a time when identified. Or set a schedule to do hoses by type/location/etc. if you’re motivated enough. Motivation being dictated by how broke the owner is, and the service value of the vehicle to the owner.

    If I have the means for a new car, the “rotted hose” stage is when when Id seriously consider a new car. But it’s good to know that if you find yourself without the means to buy a new car, you stand a chance at keeping a vehicle serviceable for longer. With old cars, a bag of snakes is a bad thing to think about, along with everything else that starts to nickel and dime you to death.

    4runners are considered legend because they “run forever”. The truth is, nothing runs forever…. But some vehicles can be made to run forever, with sweat and a bit of money, as long as it’s value/utility to the owner is motivating enough. The 4runner “form factor”, and general durability, has been more motivating to more owners than the typical vehicle, which I think helps explains why their viewed as indestructible.

    The long periods of time between generations also helps expand DYI knowledge base and parts availability.

    A new 4runner wont be able to say it’s durable for at least 10 years before comparing it to this generation. That’s reality no matter what…but add to it a bag of snakes, and I’d be motivated to keep mine going as long as possible!

    Unless I’m in a financial position to get whatever I want whenever. Then all bets are off! There’d be no risk to me in buying a bag of snakes lol (I love that term :laugh::laugh::laugh:).
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  19. Sep 15, 2022 at 9:36 AM
    #79
    2ndGen22re

    2ndGen22re Goldie, my 1st love & my new kid…

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    One-at-this-price stripper. Bought new 32yrs ago, a $13K leftover. Added Detroit TruTrac and 1”rear spring spacer. Factory AC kit and roof rack bought at dealer cost at time of purchase, still blows ice cold 32yrs later. 2022 AG ORP all stock.
    I nearly have on my 1990 but not on this one, I’ll most likely be dead in 25 yrs.
     
  20. Sep 15, 2022 at 4:13 PM
    #80
    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint

    TeslasBigCarbonFootprint New Member

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    14 Neglected by the previous owners 20 is a former rental... I've been buying above my pay grade ☹️
    Sooo, I talked to someone who works for Toyota regional today as I was picking up my Prius from the dealership body shop... Other than showing me bodies with the hybrid component locations, I saw pictures of the block.

    They're selling this as an improved turbo design for the trucks and future 4Runners.. It will have an improved spindle and fin design so it gets to speed faster without compromising pressure. The exhaust side has bigger blades for faster evacuation and lower pressure. It's supposed to be more responsive. The hybrid aspect picks up on the quick response and immediate torque. I asked about longevity and he jumped into the party line "it will not effect the life of the engine." Well, let's see how much their 7-8 year extended ToyotaCare warranty sells for.

    PS if you have any of the camera or radar systems and you have even a minor accident, make sure to take it to a dealership body shop. Also, insist on getting everything recalibrated if the device is behind a part or piece that was replaced needs to be repainted or was knocked around. Toyota Techstream software has the calibration stuff to drive the test equipment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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  21. Oct 11, 2022 at 7:56 PM
    #81
    4runGirl88

    4runGirl88 Get a little mud on the tires!

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    If my fiance modified his subaru like that, I'd drive the hell outta it! :D

    I wish the guy would've at least tried to get the 4runner over that last patch of rocks though. I bet it would've made it :p
     
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  22. Oct 25, 2022 at 1:31 AM
    #82
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    We have a 2014 Outback, bought new. Bare bones, 6 speed manual, no extraneous electronics, and mechanical AWD system. It's been flawless so far (knock on wood), very comfortable ride, and handles amazing well for a car with over 8 inches of ground clearance. And with all terrain tires it's feels like it can handle any kind of weather. The only two negatives I've dealt with is that it's a bit slow, and the engine noise can be a bit loud-ish. We keep vehicles for the long haul, and I expect that the Subaru will last quite a long time.
     
  23. Oct 29, 2022 at 9:34 PM
    #83
    1ino

    1ino New Member

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    I have a Subaru Forester 2005 Turbo, I lifted it I think 1.5” was a long time ago, nice car, a little more economical that the 4Runner, but I don’t think I will ever buy another Subaru, was going to sell the 4Runner because of fuel economy but decided to keep it also.
    I don’t recommend Subaru and I use Prius for work commuting, 4Runner for weekend fun, Subaru is wife’s work car now.
     
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