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Rust starts one month 460 miles

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by mac1usa, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Jul 21, 2021 at 6:01 PM
    #1
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    Noticed my rust starting on frame built 4/27 and delivery June 8th. I have never driven in rain. Water spots are from transport.

    It has been in garage and only out on sunny days.

    Did not think it would start so soon

    BD4A1594-D357-4614-B07F-3F7472FBF601.jpg
     
  2. Jul 21, 2021 at 6:13 PM
    #2
    newtotoyota

    newtotoyota New Member

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    Blacked out grill and rear emblem. More on the way!
    Isn't that just surface rust? I'm on mobile and it's hard to see it clearly
     
  3. Jul 21, 2021 at 6:18 PM
    #3
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

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    Sure as shit would help to know where that is.
     
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  4. Jul 21, 2021 at 6:25 PM
    #4
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    I am not mechanic but if you crawl under and look where your drivers door meets your rear door you will see that brace.

    I have surface rust it seems where things are welded all along that frame
     
  5. Jul 21, 2021 at 6:27 PM
    #5
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    There is a “lip” for lack of being able to better explain it that has the surface rust as well. I tried to upload a video from iPhone but it won’t attach

    7A8B3F8A-0A7A-49DD-B789-6B8B6553ED85.jpg
     
  6. Jul 21, 2021 at 7:02 PM
    #6
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    Readylift SST, 285-70-17 Ridge Grapplers, TRD Pro rims, 3M precut bra, N-Fab nerf/steps
    My 18' SR5 has the same rust spots on many of the welds since brand new.

    When I was at the dealership getting one of my complimentary oil changes, I peeked under a couple of 4Runners with zero miles on the showroom floor. They had rust spots on some of the welds too.

    I suspect that the welds have some kind of chemistry that doesn't allow the frame paint to adhere properly. Or possibly the frame welds were insufficiently cleaned prior to painting.

    I don't like it either.
     
  7. Jul 21, 2021 at 7:26 PM
    #7
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    Thanks yes really bummed out tonight. I planned to get Fluid film from a mechanic I had hoped in fall but may do sooner.

    I am the anal dude who planned to keep finish tip top, not drive in rain, not drive definitely in winter through salt and now and put few miles on.

    I think my 90s Explorer frame looked great with under coating after all those years.

    It’s odd to me how the oil based products are now recommended vs the old school under rubberized stuff. Maybe mine last better though since my Explorer never saw winter or rain either.
     
  8. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:13 PM
    #8
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    @mac1usa - that thing is close to being totaled. I would sell it ASAP, take my losses and move on.
    That's why i undercoated mine 3 days into the ownership. Lots of that rust is totally normal and it is only superficial surface rust; take a look at a brand new F150, for example.
    Take care of it and it will last you for many, many years. Fluid film once a year and you are laughing.

    Note: I am the anal guy that drives it in the rain, mud, sleet, snow, taking it up north hunting on rough trails and always picking up the unmaintained gravel sideroad on my way home.
    Keeping a car like this in pristine condition is like not f#$king your girlfriend so the next guy can enjoy her more.
    Wait till you find out about how easy the paint chips and scratches !
    Edit: sounds to me like you would benefit more from a '69 Charger or a Vette.
     
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  9. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:16 PM
    #9
    Mass4runner

    Mass4runner New Member

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    Best fix for this is to stop crawling around under your car with a magnifying glass. I really don't think this is something to worry about.
     
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  10. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:17 PM
    #10
    RusPro17

    RusPro17 New Member

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    Do yourself a favor if you have someone local. Have it sprayed with fluid film. I had my 4runner Pro done and it will protect the undercarriage from rust. I’m getting my 21 tundra Pro done befor e the winter this year.
     
  11. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:31 PM
    #11
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    Thanks guys I have appointment for FF at a detailing shop for sept. Going to see if a mechanic at a local shop who owned a 4R might do sooner. He was on our locks need talking about FF last winter.

    Good analogy Canadian Bacon. My Dad always told me to enjoy that Explorer more as I waxed it and polished and the parts rotted out over 28 years. I did not get the enjoyment out of it that most would. Although for me waxing a car is therapeutic with and something I enjoy.

    I suppose I am extra anal since I have not had a new car in so many years. My every day car is an accord. It was sticker shock to buy it and I keep asking myself did I make the right decision. I plan just to use to tow a small fishing boat and go fishing with my Dad. It was closest I could find to a body on frame Explorer and size.

    Maybe I just need to drink more.
     
  12. Jul 21, 2021 at 8:49 PM
    #12
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    Fluid film seems to be the majority rule here. I believe the rubberized coating run the risk of trapping moisture and contaminates which can increase the likelihood of rust.

    I've never had any coating on my vehicle frames, I live in the desert so corrosion is not as big a problem.

    When I sold my 97' Tacoma after 21 years and 260k miles, the frame was completely rust free, not even surface rust with no frame treatment, just regular washing.

    It all depends on where you live I guess.
     
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  13. Jul 21, 2021 at 10:25 PM
    #13
    thirdyota

    thirdyota shouldn't be trusted

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    Looks like you figured out the best remedy
    :cheers:
     
  14. Jul 21, 2021 at 10:38 PM
    #14
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Rust never sleeps. — Neil Young.
    I live in sunny CA and I also see that occasionally. Just take a wire brush and scrape it off. Wipe it with isopropyl alcohol and rattlecan it with your favorite rust reformer/black gloss paint. Inspect whenever you’re under it for oil changes and repeat as needed.

    Top it off with a fluid film-like product if you’re in the snow and salt belt.
     
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  15. Jul 21, 2021 at 11:05 PM
    #15
    7th District

    7th District New Member

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  16. Jul 21, 2021 at 11:43 PM
    #16
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    That explanation sounds better than rusty welds.

    It would be nice if we had a metallurgist on this forum.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2021 at 12:01 AM
    #17
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster New Member

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    After reading a couple of pages on the Jeep forum, I am more confused. So we have imperfect welds because the silica slag was not removed?
     
  18. Jul 22, 2021 at 12:28 AM
    #18
    RusPro17

    RusPro17 New Member

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    For the cost to have your whole undercarriage sprayed every 2 years is not a big deal. It’s worth it if you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time. There are guys that have them sprayed every year. I’m doing mine every 2 years.
     
  19. Jul 22, 2021 at 1:55 AM
    #19
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Actually, it’s more like we have imperfect paint because the silica slag was not removed. The presence of slag does not automatically mean it’s a bad weld..

    I’m not a metalurgist, but i use the mig process for welding on various projects, as a hobby. The silica pools are something that happens commonly on weld pools. Basically, it's the crap you didnt clean off the metal before you start welding. Anything that isnt metal will melt into a glass that floats on the molten puddle, then freezes into a solid along with the metal. The dirtier your material is, the more silica pools you will see on a solidified weld. They don’t take paint, so a welder is advised to clean that slag off before finishing, or those will be spots that rust; because eventually that glass will chip off. The silica sticks, but basically it’s glass so it can be fairly easily chipped off or wire brushed.

    So that document is kinda right. Some of those pics show silica, but it could just as easily be where the silica was. Once it falls off, you start getting rust. I think that is what we are seeing on our 4runners. That document is basically telling customers there is no way in hell they will clean off all the slag/silica before painting.

    To get a frame perfectly free of the silica inclusions would mean extra labor or processes that for sure would make things more expensive.

    To the OP, I’m the type of guy that enjoys just laying down and looking at the underside of my 4runner, so I feel your pain. That said, you have to decide if you bought it to only look at, or to use it. If it’s to use it, then FF the crap out of the frame, and get er dirty. I guarentee, if you put a thick enough coat of FF on, you will be disgusted by all that snot everywhere, and it will free you up to enjoy using it. God help you the first time you look under there with mud and grit mixed in with the FF coating. It will be ok though. Just blast it with a garden hose to get most of the mud off. Also remember to spray copious amounts of water into the holes in the frame to wash things out if you ever go mudding

    PS: whenever I go in the mud, I usually spend at least a few hours hosing down the frame in all its nooks and crannies. My first time in the mud was so bad, I ended up taking wheels off to clean everywhere lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  20. Jul 22, 2021 at 2:13 AM
    #20
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    I forgot to post this. This is what the silica slag looks like after a fresh weld on my last project.297BE9AC-D545-475A-B671-FA51DEA2DFB6.jpg
     
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  21. Jul 22, 2021 at 6:27 AM
    #21
    rickystl

    rickystl New Member

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    As soon as my 2021 ORP turned 600 miles, I waxed and detailed it and then took it to Krown Rustproofing the next morning. I was happy with the process which took only about an hour and a half. It goes on clear so it can be used on the fender wells and firewall in the engine compartment. And has no effect on electrical components. Only cost about $140.00. They said it needs to be done once a year for the warranty to remain in effect, which I plan on doing.
    Might be worth investigating Krown if you happen to have a dealer near you.
     
  22. Jul 22, 2021 at 7:23 AM
    #22
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    Thanks guys--my intended use for the 4R is to use it just in the spring/summer/early fall. I live in Michigan and plan to use May through late Sept (early Oct). My plan is to not drive in rain unless I get caught and never in the winter.

    I bought the vehicle since it was like my old Explorer (but apparently better) to tow my fishing boat and I don't plan to off road with it all. Maybe it might go down a short piece of dirt road.

    I have an everyday 2005 Accord as my main car and that is the last time I bought a car. Maybe I am freaking out unnecessarily. The dirt that is on the frame now has to be from shipping and the water spots also.

    I am thinking of just using some car was soapy water on a towel to wipe down the frame and then talk to some folks about fluid film.

    I kept my old Explorer for 29 years and did not have rust but got it undercoated at dealer. I was only 18 back then when I got out high school and young and dumb. Back then they used the rubberized stuff and I did not have rust issues.

    Yeah I don't like the idea of FF all messy underneath but I want the thing to last I hope at least 15 years especially if not driven in winter. I will probably only put 2,000 miles per year anyway tops towing to Lake Erie fishing.

    I talked to a body shop that undercoated Tacoma frames for Toyota and they wanted $800 to do it, its not the money to so much is using the right product.

    The consensus from I read is that fluid film appears to be the most recommended. I just want someone who knows what they are spraying, I dont want a warranty issue later from Toyota. The FF website does not have anyone around me.

    I found a local mechanic who has a 4R at an independent shop who I think my do it for me (he was on a new station last winter talking about rust). Then there is auto detailing shop that started spraying FF on vehicles as well. They do great work detailing but I just wonder how much they now about where to spray fluid film etal.

    I am just burned out, lots of flooding rains here in MI lately and then saw this yesterday I am ready for a break but need to still count my blessings and be thankful for what I have.
     
  23. Jul 22, 2021 at 7:42 AM
    #23
    LakeEffect

    LakeEffect New Member

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    What you have there is no big deal. If you never drive the vehicle in any type of weather, the undercarriage is going to outlive two 250k mile engine transplants. You are going to get some moisture in the garage, if you still want to FF it then so be it. I have an Audi that I don't drive in any weather, I am not about to look underneath it and upset myself. It's gonna be fine.
     
  24. Jul 22, 2021 at 8:41 AM
    #24
    bedobe

    bedobe Misanthrope

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    I dare say whatever 'rust' or discoloration you might see didn't start at 460 miles or at one month, but started on the boat ride over. Such rust would not cause me any loss of sleep; To each his own. Just rub some dirt on it. My opinion: After the debacle (and cost too Toyota) of Tacoma's rust fiasco a few years back I can't image this will ever be an issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  25. Jul 22, 2021 at 8:48 AM
    #25
    7th District

    7th District New Member

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    I’ve noticed Krown has recently been opening up outlets here in Michigan. I’ve been interested & meaning to use their for a few years now. However I never really could find the time to drive the few hours up to assault Ste. Marie. But now that they are just a bit more then an hour away, I think I’ll get it done.
     
  26. Jul 22, 2021 at 10:30 AM
    #26
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    Yeah, I saw Krown opened up a shop near me but they only leased a small space. My understanding is that it is similar to Ziebart material that is rubberized and can trap moisture. That was my inital take though unless I misunderstood something
     
  27. Jul 22, 2021 at 10:46 AM
    #27
    rickystl

    rickystl New Member

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    No. Nothing like Ziebart. Check out their Website and watch the video. It's interesting.

    Back in the 1970's and 80's Ziebart was really the only game in town. And it was light years better than the standard cheap undercoating back then. Before I went to Krown, I got a quote from Ziebart for $400.00 !!! You don't often see their locations anymore. It appears there are simply better technologies available today, at lower cost.
     
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  28. Jul 22, 2021 at 10:58 AM
    #28
    7th District

    7th District New Member

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    Agreed. Nothing like the old Ziebart. I’d never do that old rubberized stuff.
     
  29. Jul 30, 2021 at 3:40 PM
    #29
    mac1usa

    mac1usa [OP] New Member

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    So I crawled around tonight snd wiped frame down with towel car wash soap and dried with towel.

    I have not taken mine out in rain since I got it in June and it stays in garage.

    I noticed that on a lot of the welds there is what appears surface rust (just on welded areas). The painted frame itself is fine.

    I plan to use a product called Ospho to dissolve rust that my buddy Andrew on here used on his Taco frame and then put fluid film after 24hrs on those spots.

    After wiping down tonight only 74 degrees here finally and nice night had to stop. Ospho May have to wait day or two as my sciatic nerve flared up crawling on backside.

    I have appointment to get whole thing fluid filmed in sept. Everybody is swamped.

    Just wanted guys to know who are crazy like me what I found.
     
  30. Jul 30, 2021 at 4:12 PM
    #30
    Bonitobob

    Bonitobob New Member

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    I have to tell you it is not normal to not want to drive your 4Runner in the rain. You need a nice fender bender to come to your senses. This is just a chunk of metal that is no longer as quite as good as it’s fabulous reputation. The car does not get better if you don’t use it. Save it for someone else to use? They will.
     
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