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Oil filter size

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by Tuna Mac, Aug 12, 2023.

  1. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:18 PM
    #1
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Well, changed my oil today for first time, 5k miles after buying a certified used 2019 with 31,000 miles on it. Turns out they used the wrong oil filter. They used one that is shorter than the correct one.

    I’ve seen and read through multiple other threads on this subject, but there always seems to be differing opinions on whether any oil is filtered at all if the filter is too short. Can anyone confirm whether an incorrect shorter filter means literally zero oil got filtered for that 5k mile interval, or whether it was filtered at least somewhat during that time?

    I’m trying to not think about this, but definitely want to keep the 4Runner forever if I can, so now I’m a bit worried.
     
  2. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:26 PM
    #2
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    Do you know the make/model of the filter they used?

    It's my understanding that the height is what matters most so that the oil being pumped in circulates through the filter and doesn't bypass around it (top/bottom).

    I hope it's not a HUGE issue since gravity will be on your side, pulling the oil down into the filter. Not ideal though!

    If you want any peace of mind you could always send in an oil sample to Blackstone and see what they say.

    https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

    ---

    One example of size differences I've seen is on the PBL25609 PurolatorBOSS filter vs OEM. It is actually not as wide/thick as OEM but the height should match up for a good seal.

    Example of same height filter (Purolator on the LEFT vs OEM on RIGHT) but not as thick:

     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  3. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:31 PM
    #3
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    There is a face seal on the housing that the filter presses against to seal completely. So you would be getting some unfiltered oil. I doubt you have a problem. Run the oil for a bit, drain and send to Blackstone for analysis. Do another change with a filter.

    Call the dealer and make a note because it is 100% not acceptable.
     
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  4. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:55 PM
    #4
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    They used a Toyota filter, but they used 15613-YZZA1, which I’m pretty sure is for an Avalon and maybe some other models. Same diameter, but shorter by about an inch or so.
     
  5. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:57 PM
    #5
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    Damn. That is annoying! Thankfully you only ran it 5k miles and I hope things are all good.

    If it was me, I would send in an oil sample to Blackstone just for the peace of mind. They will be able to show you how contaminated the oil is so you know what's been going through the engine.
     
  6. Aug 12, 2023 at 5:58 PM
    #6
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    I found another thread where this exact same thing happened to someone:

    https://www.4runners.com/threads/dealer-installed-the-wrong-oil-filter.21920/

    and You could probably even file a complaint to Toyota corporate if the dealer refuses to make it right. One person suggested asking the dealer to run a compression test to make sure the engine was still within specs as well. That and at least another free oil change compensated, though I would be doing it myself from now on.
     
  7. Aug 12, 2023 at 6:07 PM
    #7
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Ya I definitely don’t want them touching the vehicle anymore. I’d like an extended warranty, but that’s probably a pipe dream at this point.

    I have the oil saved from the change, and I happened to use a brand new catch pan so it shouldn’t be contaminated from anything else. Going to send a sample to black stone to see if anything significant is in it.
     
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  8. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:25 PM
    #8
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Someone posted this in one of the other related threads. If the oil in our filters does indeed flow from outside in as shown in this diagram, maybe that means the filter was still able to do its job fairly well despite a few of the center holes being exposed?


    upload_2023-8-12_19-23-41.jpg
     
  9. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:36 PM
    #9
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    That is my understanding, that due to the filter being vertical and not horizontal in the 4R and gravity being on your side, I would assume that "most" of the oil was being filtered. Obviously a less-than-ideal situation, but optimistically I hope it's not a huge deal for you.

    Flip that image upside down and that is what is going on in the 4R. Oil flows from the top outside and is pulled upwards inside.

    Depending on the pressure of the oil going through the filter system, the lack of a vertical seal on both ends could compromise and bypass the filter, to what extent I do not know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  10. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:45 PM
    #10
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    This image is the right orientation, Now imagine the gap you had at the top and how pressurized the oil flow is going through the filter itself. That would determine how much is bypassed vs "pulled" down to the bottom and cycled through the smaller filter.

    Screenshot 2023-08-12 at 9.45.04 PM.png
     
  11. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:48 PM
    #11
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    Since you had a gap I would imagine it would be basically be like running a filter with the bypass valve activated to some extent, though to what extent is the unknown variable.
     
  12. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:51 PM
    #12
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Ya I’m thinking that since only one row of holes was exposed that it’s unlikely literally all of the oil was forced through those holes thus bypassing the filter. I think it’s more likely that some oil went through that row of holes and bypassed the filter, with a decent amount of the oil still passing through the filter. But, I’m no engineer so that could all be incorrect.
     
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  13. Aug 12, 2023 at 7:52 PM
    #13
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    Yup. Being pressurized, the flow will obviously favor the path of least resistance (the unfiltered gap), but since the gap was a small area compared to the rest of the filter it should still trap particulates and contaminants to some extent.

    I am glad you checked it at 5k!
     
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  14. Aug 12, 2023 at 8:19 PM
    #14
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    I should have been less trusting and changed it right after buying it. If I ever buy a used car again it’ll get an oil change immediately regardless of whether it’s “certified” and just got one from a dealer…
     
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  15. Aug 12, 2023 at 9:56 PM
    #15
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    What’s the point of an oil analysis?

    I mean if it comes back with some bearing material out of limits, are you going to replace the engine if it’s still running normally?
     
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  16. Aug 12, 2023 at 11:09 PM
    #16
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Just my stupid brain thinking “well if it comes back all normal I can stop worrying about it!”
     
  17. Aug 12, 2023 at 11:15 PM
    #17
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Valid point. It’s ashame that some lube techs continue to use the wrong filter.
     
  18. Aug 13, 2023 at 4:22 AM
    #18
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    I would make a note to Blackstone and explain the situation on the form you fill out when sending in the sample.
     
  19. Aug 13, 2023 at 5:57 AM
    #19
    MeefZah

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    That can go the other way too, and turn into a mind fuck...
     
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  20. Aug 13, 2023 at 6:50 AM
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    satoshi

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    upload_2023-8-13_8-50-17.jpg
     
  21. Aug 13, 2023 at 6:21 PM
    #21
    rmiked

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    Man I need to know the right filter is being used and what type oil is being installed. If you don’t do it yourself you have to trust someone that can’t really care about your vehicle. They are too expensive for me to have that trust? If I was going to trade or sell it before the warranty was up and always had the dealer do service I wouldn’t worry about it. That’s another way of saying I’m ok with the crap-shoot of it.
     
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  22. Aug 13, 2023 at 6:34 PM
    #22
    satoshi

    satoshi Mοderatοr

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    Sadly trust is one thing that's been slowly eroding from society
     
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  23. Aug 13, 2023 at 7:21 PM
    #23
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I actually made this mistake myself once. The filter for my TC is the same diameter and a hair shorter. I accidentally grabbed the wrong one by trying to remember the part number. It looks right, if you don't compare it to the correct one.

    This was a few years ago already, so I don't think anything came of it. I'm at about 103-104K miles now, and it still sounds new when it starts up.
     
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  24. Aug 13, 2023 at 7:32 PM
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    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    Was it an A1 filter you installed instead of the A5?
     
  25. Aug 13, 2023 at 7:50 PM
    #25
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    No idea. Whatever size goes in the TC. I used to always buy Wix, but lately I've been mixing it up so I don't remember the part numbers off the top of my head.
     
  26. Aug 13, 2023 at 9:34 PM
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    Slopemaster

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    I buy my filters at the dealership, takes the guesswork out of it. And they don’t cost anymore.
     
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  27. Aug 13, 2023 at 11:42 PM
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    Captain Spalding

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    I think the unfiltered gap is larger than you might imagine. More than the bypass, which I believe is close to an eighth of an inch.

    upload_2023-8-13_23-42-22.jpg
     
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  28. Aug 14, 2023 at 5:41 AM
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    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    This shows it on the tube. Basically just seeing the top row of holes exposed, which gives me hope a decent amount of oil was still filtered. But maybe it’s possible all the oil flowed through that one row of holes?

    upload_2023-8-14_5-39-31.jpg
     
  29. Aug 14, 2023 at 5:48 AM
    #29
    MeefZah

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    At the risk of sounding like a fool here, since I am basing this on how I assume oil filtration works which may have no basis in reality, my assessment of this is that it's not like the oil only gets one pass through the filter and then that's it; whatever is missed immediately gets cycled through the engine and is never filtered again.

    In actuality the oil is continuously and repeatedly filtered and so while debris might initially get missed with a shorter filter, they are still going to get filtered sooner rather than later as the oil circulates again and again and again through the filter.

    However it actually works, I think you are overthinking this shit. Overthinking shit is a common problem on this particular site. It's fine....
     
  30. Sep 13, 2023 at 7:39 PM
    #30
    Tuna Mac

    Tuna Mac [OP] New Member

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    In case anyone is reading this in the future worrying about the same problem, for what it’s worth my oil sample report from black stone labs came back all normal.
     

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