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New guy here and need some some guidance on Alignment!

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Gnfanatic, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. Jun 12, 2020 at 5:00 AM
    #1
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    Hello guys. I have a 2020 TRD Offroad Premium (My first Toyota, haha) and could not stand the sloppy, body roll ride. I installed the Eibach pro level kit (2 3/4" front lift) poly sway bar bushings and 1/4in spacers on the driver side. I just rode about 200 miles to settle the springs and I am ready for an alignment. I also have 285 Faulkens and SCS wheels so I know I am looking for about 4 degrees + caster BUT what about camber and Toe???? I have factory UCA's as well.


    thanks!!
     
    travelinscout and kbp810 like this.
  2. Jun 12, 2020 at 5:28 AM
    #2
    kbp810

    kbp810 New Member

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    My personal preference is 0 or slightly negative camber; 0 or slightly negative toe; and then caster around 4 or more if they can get it there (I usually find anything at 2.5 or higher to be tolerable; which with stock arms might be about where you’ll land).
     
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  3. Jun 12, 2020 at 6:02 AM
    #3
    SlvrSlug

    SlvrSlug New Member

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    Welcome to the forum.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2020 at 6:32 AM
    #4
    travelinscout

    travelinscout New Member

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    Welcome from AZ.
     
  5. Jun 12, 2020 at 6:43 AM
    #5
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    I'll piggyback on this.

    It will be impossible for you to get 4 degrees of caster with stock UCA's and a 2.75" lift in the front. You can ask them to max out the caster as best they can with your lift, but as kbp states above, you'll most likely get something below 3 degrees. You can try that and see how it rides. If you like it, leave it.

    Or you could put aftermarket UCA's on now and get back to 4 degrees of caster (or more with certain UCAs). It will certainty tighten up the steering.
     
    Snickel Fritz likes this.
  6. Jun 12, 2020 at 12:13 PM
    #6
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    Thanks guys, much appreciated. I cant afford uppers at the moment, to many projects going on. So I will have to do with what I have. I will let you know how it goes and thanks for the welcoming. I have a lot to learn about these trucks :)
     
    nimby likes this.
  7. Jun 12, 2020 at 1:38 PM
    #7
    Agent_Outside

    Agent_Outside New Member

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    Camber and toe you still want at stock spec, lifting it doesn’t effect where you want throes set. Caster you definitely want higher than stock to make it handle normal at highway speeds after you raise the center of gravity. You definitely need caster corrected upper control arms.
     
    nimby likes this.
  8. Jun 12, 2020 at 2:27 PM
    #8
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    I understand, issue is I dont know what stock settings are and want to make sure it is done right. Also what makes a steering wheel "twitchy" over bumps??
     
  9. Jun 12, 2020 at 2:28 PM
    #9
    brownbear

    brownbear Relax

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    Welcome from FL. A lot of good advice here.
     
  10. Jun 12, 2020 at 2:46 PM
    #10
    Agent_Outside

    Agent_Outside New Member

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    Every alignment machine will have the stock specs in it.
     
  11. Jun 12, 2020 at 2:47 PM
    #11
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    It annoys the hell out of me when the alignment guy will look for green and say it is good without looking at numbers.
     
  12. Jun 17, 2020 at 2:47 PM
    #12
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    welp, as usual I get piss poor service. Went to alignment place to get the 4runner aligned and check the balance on 2 front scs wheels. After telling them about the 3+ degree's caster and waiting 4 freaking hours, I get this alignment specs due to that is the best they can do.....


    Front:
    left:
    Camber 0.2
    caster 2.0
    Toe: .08

    Right:
    Camber: -0.1
    Caster: 1.5
    Toe: .08

    REAR:
    Camber: -0.3
    Toe: -0.23

    Right:
    Camber:-0.3
    Toe: 0.13

    The 4Runner rides funky and pulls to the right when I brake, I hate relying on other people to do a proper job. And it gets better! I yelled at the tech for using a 1/2" air gun to put the shield bolts back on and this morning I find a row of brand new wheel weights on my driveway!!
     
  13. Jun 17, 2020 at 2:55 PM
    #13
    kbp810

    kbp810 New Member

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    Oh man, that's rough. Sounds like it's time to find a new shop.

    To maximize caster, you pretty much need to move the front cam bolts just about as far as they can inboard, and the rear cam bolts just about as far as then can outboard. Then the tie rod ends will need to pushed out longer to make up for the negative toe. Though again with stock arms, there still might not be a ton more of room for improvement.
     
    Snickel Fritz and nimby like this.
  14. Jun 17, 2020 at 2:58 PM
    #14
    SlvrSlug

    SlvrSlug New Member

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    That sucks, i think we pretty much have to find a good off road shop to get the work done, and even that is b*+$&# to find.
     
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  15. Jun 17, 2020 at 7:28 PM
    #15
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    I'm not going to defend their work, but they probably don't have much to work with on a 2.75" front lift and stock UCA's.

    You'll get the best alignment and ride with new UCA's.

    At least you know to take it to another shop for installation and alignment.
     
    Snickel Fritz likes this.
  16. Jun 17, 2020 at 9:01 PM
    #16
    Snickel Fritz

    Snickel Fritz Grew Up Around Lead Paint

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    ^This. Your expectation of keeping stock UCAs with nearly 3" of lift while gaining caster is a bit high.

    The shop sounds awful though, for one thing every one of us needs advice on things we're not trained in- they should have insisted to you that they won't be able to give you a good ride without less lift or more caster built in to the uppers.
    The lack of care and workmanship would piss me off no matter how tall of an order they had in front of them.
    Sure, the results you requested were not realistic, but that is where they should have just told you straight, instead of continuing to do poor work.
    Good luck finding a good shop bud, I'm looking too!
     
    nimby likes this.
  17. Jun 20, 2020 at 12:05 PM
    #17
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    Hi guys, thanks for the info. I just dont understand why so many purchased the Eibach kit and stated if you install it with the lowest setting you wont need UCA's. I really did not want to spend the money but want to do it right. Have you guys had any experience with Freedom Off-Road UCA's?? I am looking at JBA or Freedom UCA's.
     
  18. Jun 20, 2020 at 12:55 PM
    #18
    Snickel Fritz

    Snickel Fritz Grew Up Around Lead Paint

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    There are more than one Eibach kit, the stage 1 (and my own "kit" which is a common combination of Eibach/Toytec) doesn't require UCAs for most people, but really it depends on how the steering feels for you. I really want the JBAs, and I'm only going with 1.5"fr/.5"rr because I don't like the way it tracks from the factory.
     
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  19. Jun 20, 2020 at 1:30 PM
    #19
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    Some people (like me) just get the Eibach struts and use our stock coils. With my stock coils, I wen't up to the 3rd notch on the Eibach struts which gave me 1.6" of lift. From this, I'm still able to get 3.6 degrees of caster with stock UCA's. The higher you go in the front, the harder it is to get your caster number higher with stock UCAs.

    If you have the 2.75" lift coils and set the struts on the lowest setting, then you can still get get your caster is spec. It'll just be at the lower end of spec. That's fine for some people because they don't even notice the difference. It sounds like it bothers you (as it would me) so your solution is to get a set of UCAs.

    JBA makes a good UCA but double check their fitment requirements first. I don't have any info on Freedom UCAs. Another good UCA is Dirt King.

    https://dirtkingfabrication.com/collections/4runner/products/ball-joint-upper-control-arms-dk-812901
     
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  20. Jun 20, 2020 at 1:39 PM
    #20
    Snickel Fritz

    Snickel Fritz Grew Up Around Lead Paint

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    I just checked on JBA's site a few days ago, with my FN Six Shooters (17×8) I can fit either my current Coopers (255/75/r17) or the Toyo AT3s I want (255/80/r17) without rubbing the JBA gusset.

    Although overkill, the HD version has the same fitment and the same Cerakote treatment for a couple hundred bucks more. I didn't need the HD, but I asked anyway in case someone else wanted to know.
     
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  21. Jun 29, 2020 at 5:33 PM
    #21
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    Ok guys, UCA's are installed. I torqued them down to 85 ft lbs with load on suspension. I am going to a new alignment shop tomorrow, am I looking for factory specs with 3+ pos caster?
     
  22. Jun 29, 2020 at 6:49 PM
    #22
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    I would ask for closer to 4 degrees caster.
     
  23. Jun 30, 2020 at 10:29 AM
    #23
    Gnfanatic

    Gnfanatic [OP] New Member

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    Hello everyone, I want to thank you all for recommending UCA's. I got the alignment done with 4 deg aster and the 4runner drives alot better, it was well worth it. Now I got work on my shaky faulken wildpeaks and the truck is done for now :) Thanks again!
     
  24. Jun 30, 2020 at 10:48 AM
    #24
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    Nice! Glad the UCA's and alignment worked out Gnfanatic!

    As for the tires, go and get them Road Force Balanced and make sure they fall within spec for that balance. If the techs can't get them in spec, have the defective tires replaced (under warranty) for new ones that do fall within spec.
     
  25. Jun 30, 2020 at 10:49 AM
    #25
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    BTW, what UCA's did you end up going with?
     

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