Needle bearing...

Glad to hear you get to pick it up in the morning. I dropped mine off yesterday to be repaired since they said the parts would be in and ready to start on. I was told today if will be next week because a Toyota rep has to come inspect the vehicle before and after the repair.

 

Yah I'm sure he meant differential. By Toyota standards no it should not be possible. This is a no brainer. This issue should be long resolved. Question is what did the part# change involve sadly nobody knows and that includes the dealerships that are changing out the front differentials as per head office instruction. Only thing that would make sense to my retired mechanic mind is that the hole for the needle bearing in the differential has been enlarged to house a more robust needle bearing with better clearances. My guess but what do I know. My '22 is so far so good at 600 km but I can't report any more as the runner is pretty much parked until the salt season is done.

 

Update:
Picked up my '22 4R today. No noise on the way home although I thought I may have heard/felt it at times. I think it was just me being overly sensitive to any noise or vibe felt. They replaced front diff and front axle due to them finding some scoring.
BUT, I do have to go back on Tuesday so they can repair the small dent/ding in the drivers door!!!!! WTF. It wasn't there when I dropped it off.
And on a side note, I had traded in a VW when I bought the 4R. I kept checking my VW loan status as a payment was coming up and it still wasn't paid off by the Toyo dealer. I called VW and they said they are returning the check as it was both made out to the wrong department and also mailed to the wrong address. And they mailed it back to me, instead of the Toyota dealer so I had to bring it to the dealer so they could cut another check and overnight it to VW credit.
Boy, it was one thing after another with this. Getting very discouraged with Harr Toyota. I know the needle bearing wasn't their fault but they didn't want to look at the needle bearing until I called Toyota a couple of times and Toyota had to persuade them to look at it and it ended up being the needle bearing. So 11 days without my new 4R. I know it could've been worse and there are worse things people are dealing with out there but I just wanted to vent. I wake up every morning so I'm already on the plus side.

 

Thanks for the update. Did they by chance offer any sort of explanation as to why the part# changed and they had to change the whole diff? Just asking because the part# can change for some really stupid things that have nothing to do with revised parts. I'd think that any engineering changes would long ago have made it to the assembly line for '22 models. Please keep us informed as to how the new diff is working.

 

Update: I just picked my 2022. They replaced front differential and as of now the noise is gone. The work order was pretty vague, so I am not sure if they used a different part number for replacement.

 

I wondered the same thing.

I can tell you that my original diff ('19) needle bearing was shot basically as soon as I drove off the lot. And, the replacement diff is still good after nearly 40K miles, most of them after a lift.

But, it could just be a fluke. Maybe some of the differentials had a flaw that caused the issue.

I know what you're saying about part numbers. IIRC the roof rack cross bars part number changed several times while the part seemed to never change. It made ordering the cross bars confusing.

 

I have a 21 that fall out of the TSB range as well. So if mine has a “new part number” differential, I wonder if the ECGS plain bearing fits. If, lets suppose, they made the hole bigger to fit a thicker needle bearing, that means the ECGS bearing wouldnt fit?

Does anyonr recall seeng any “post tsb”4runner owners install the plain bearing. Id be curious to see of it fits.

 

They didn't offer any explanation about part numbers or such, just that when they removed the axle, it was scored already so they replaced it with a new one.
I did some errands yesterday, about 40ish miles total and no noise or vibrations felt. Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions, I never would have realized the possible needle bearing issue without this forum. I mentioned before that I'm on a few forums for my motorcycles and truly have faith in them.

Next item up is some better tires for the New England winters......

Merry Christmas

 

That's great hope it stays that way. I did a little sleuthing shows a couple TSBs but nothing for newer than 2019. Here's a couple links from other forums that have good info showing the evolution of this problem. Time will tell on the newer ones.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/2020-differential-needle-bearing-failure.80612/
https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/new-front-differential-bearing-vibration-tsb.1224505/

 

I have seen -0- evidence that anything has changed, "new" part number or not. As previously mentioned, Toyota likes to change part numbers from time to time, yet the part itself is identical. It seems the only way to know if the ECGS bushing will work in a 21/22 4R is to install one. Maybe ECGS knows...

 

My Spidey Sense says yes the ECGS bushing will fit the 21/22 models. Toyota makes a point of not changing things to much to maintain their reputation for reliability. I can see them revising a needle bearing but not revising the axle housing at least until the '23 makeover of the 4runner. I haven't crossed that bridge yet with my '22. Time will tell.

 

My 2022 ORP has grease zerks on the u-joints and slip yokes, front and rear. I just greased them yesterday and I definitely over greased the slip yokes (my first time doing this and I kind just pumped and pumped the grease gun). After figuring this wasn't right and researching it, I went out this morning and unscrewed the zerk fittings (the front fitting immediately oozed grease), I put the truck in 4WD and kind of launched it off the high end, ~9.5" high, of my RhinoRamps ramps, (forward and reverse) a few times to get the drive train moving up and down. I had a good amount of grease come out of the fitting holes. Hoping this worked to remove the excess grease.....lessons learned...I guess.

 

Well, that’s confusing. @Redwood has a 2022 OR without zerks.
WTF is up with Toyota?

 

I use a small brush and a rag that cleaned up the old grease falling out ..
use mineral spirits on the cloth to wipe it . the drive shafts work good no noise ..no wear ..

 

Noise is back again after just 4,000 miles. I am done with taking to Toyota to have them put another defective part in it. I ordered ECGS bushing to fix it myself.

 

you changed the china part ?

 

I was about to ask about this. I’m all for Toyota doing the right thing and fixing the bearings, but to what extent? Have some mechanic trash my truck to swap them out?? There have been a decent number of horror stories of what appeared to be a hasty swap by Toyota techs. Then to top it off, they put the same (or similar) part back in. I would rather just spend the money, personally, and swap it to what works.

I’ve had to do it on previous cars by going aftermarket, but having a KNOWN solution has always paid off in the end.

I have always been of the mindset of the fewer people that work on my vehicle, the better.

 

Well, I had my needle bearing replaced with the ECGS in early March of this year and it is like driving a new vehicle again. If you recall, I bought new in Nov. '21, at 100 miles went in for the diff change for the needle bearing noise. Fixed it somewhat but slowly came back. Like many, didn't want to deal with Toyota service again so had a local guy do it. I never realized how bad it was until I drove it fixed. Smooth as butter now. Just my two cents.

 

So quick backstory. Purchased vehicle new in December. I noticed needle bearing issue at about 100 miles. I took it to the dealer and they had it several days to replace the differential. It drove fine for awhile. At 4,000 miles I noticed grease in fender well, so I looked under the 4Runner and found the cv boot was damaged (likely done when they replaced differential). At 4,300 miles they replaced cv boots but don’t even clean up the grease. It is doing the same thing as at 100 miles. So to save time in the garage to deal with same issue again I am doing ECGS bushing.

 

Also doing leveling kit while I have it apart.

 

Mines getting the front differential replaced at 920 miles finally, will see how this one goes.

 

My 21' ORP just turned 12K. No bearing issue so far. My 10' FJ Cruiser never had the problem either, with 161K. Lucky I guess.
It amazes me that Toyota still has it's head stuck in the sand on this issue. With a known ECGS after-market fix you would think that Toyota would make the change away from that needle bearing, an obvious flawed design.

 

I am surprised they won’t address the issue either. Our 2015 4Runner had 70,000 miles on it and no issue. It even had a mild lift and 275’s.

 

Is your 4-Runner still doing good? I’ll be getting my 2023 in about a month and after reading these forums it starts worrying me about dealing with the needle bearing issue. It feels like everyone has this problem. Just wonder how prevalent it really is?

 

the bearing front diff is a update ... had now , the part is good ..
you have to replace the rear diff gear oil ...around 3-5K miles ..look up the gear oil if its clear or its very cloudy ..
grease the drive shafts and the yokes ...

 

What does the rear diff oil have to do with a needle bearing needing replacement?

 

That’s what I was trying to figure out. Appreciate the response though. I was just curious to how prevalent the problem really is and if anyone with 2023 4-Runners was having the problem yet.

 

Just got my ECGS kit in the mail last week.

Will be installing soon.

Job looks like a straight-forward bearing/bushing extract and reinstall. I bought their tool but will try first with the usual blind bearing puller kit I use (curiousity).

Shame this has to be done at all, but at least there is a suitable fix. Have no interest in going multiple rounds with dealer service writers being (or pretending to be) clueless about the issue. Have no need for a new diff that will end up in the same state 20K miles from now.

Mine starting making a bit of noise about three months ago. Was very subtle at first and I assumed it was tires. Learned about the 4HI test here and sure enough!

Thanks for teaching me something useful.

Jason

 

So far, so good. I recently switched back to the granny tires, and I'm not hearing any noise from it yet. Yet. I am now at 87,000, mi. The differential is replaced at 28 or 29,000.

But, even if you wind up in a situation where you have the issue, ECGS makes a replacement bushing that is a permanent solution. I know it sucks to have to use an aftermarket part to solve an issue like that, but a lot of folks have and are happy.

 

the CCP needle bearing is a manufactured distortion....they updated it ...
that member HMJ830
new 4runner inspect all the drive train fluids and grease the drive shafts LOL,,,,,,,,,,,.