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Needle bearing issue?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by COexplorer, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Feb 23, 2021 at 9:23 AM
    #91
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    Putting it in 4wd puts "pre-load" into the axles so they arent wobbling around which takes away the noise. The "wobble" is very small but that is the cause of the sound. The pre-load or tension on the axle, pins it to the bearing tighter so that it removes that vibration. Go under your truck and grab the axle and move it around watching the CV at the differential and you can see how much movement these have stock (even when they are not bad). When you install the bushing it cuts that movement in half which and supports the axle more. The ECGS bushing is a little longer than the stock needle bearing and has a much more consistent contact area. Hope that helps.
     
  2. Feb 23, 2021 at 10:51 AM
    #92
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Being since toyota probably (maybe?) used needle bearings on purpose, is there any long term potential downside to a plain bearing? Heck, could it be possible toyota slightly oversizes on purpose? I have no idea, that is why Im asking.

    It’s just weird that toyota hasn't changed this setup for so long with the frequency of noise complaints. Is it possible they have a engineering based reason not to change them?
     
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  3. Feb 28, 2021 at 10:01 PM
    #93
    QAS

    QAS New Member

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    So has anyone with a lift, diff drop and after market UCA's, experiencing needle bearing issues ??
     
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  4. Feb 28, 2021 at 10:51 PM
    #94
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    From what I have read, most bearing complaints happen on lifted vehicles, but also happen to 4runners that are not lifted. Mine started making sounds with about 100miles on the odometer (bone stock).
     
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  5. Mar 1, 2021 at 2:33 AM
    #95
    Toy4X4

    Toy4X4 New Member

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    I suspect ours is bad or going bad. We have to take it in for it's 5k checkup soon, will be talking to the service manager about options. BTW- 3"front 2"back, diff.drop, and JBA UCA's. I do want to ask a couple of dealerships if they would take the needle bearing out and install the ECGS bushing in it's place.... and I'm not banking on that happening, but it doesn't hurt to ask. If that's a no-go, which is probably going to happen, ECGS here I come! Install doesn't look too bad and what a way to get a better understanding of the "underpinnings" of the 4Runner!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  6. Mar 1, 2021 at 4:20 AM
    #96
    ExSubi

    ExSubi New Member

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    Stock
    That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation.

    I noticed yesterday that whatever mine is doing not only goes away in 4wd but also stays gone for a period of time after shifting back to 2wd.

    There’s only 800 miles on the odo. I’m doing a break in per the manual, right or wrong, and haven’t driven in 4wd but maybe a mile total during the last ice/snow storm. Is there any kind of break in on the front diff that others have done?

    I realize I’m drifting from the original topic of this thread so I’m happy to start a new one if that’s more appropriate.
     
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  7. Mar 1, 2021 at 6:18 PM
    #97
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    Yes
     
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  8. Mar 2, 2021 at 4:29 PM
    #98
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    Some stockers have issues even.
     
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  9. Mar 2, 2021 at 6:37 PM
    #99
    wdsteven

    wdsteven New Member

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    What I done to Prevent the "Needle Bearing issue" and it does work very good and Yes it is a Little bit of Work but well worth it and will take care of the noise and last much longer than the Needle bearings. depending on what you drive will determined what size to get. I installed what is Called the "Toyota 8 inch Clamshell Bushing" they run about $60 to a little more I installed one in the front.
    < https://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/toy...g-by-east-coast-gear-supply-t8cs-bushing.html > you can find them sold several places just get it from a good reputation seller (not ebay) f144066729_1.jpg
     
  10. Mar 2, 2021 at 8:15 PM
    #100
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    Yeah that's pretty much what everyone does, there's like 1/3 of the posts on this thread describing it
     
  11. Mar 7, 2021 at 7:41 AM
    #101
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    Finally did my ECGS bushing swap. Instead of pulling axles and control arms and all the other things I've seen on the internet. If you're going to do this you can do it in about 30 minutes start to finish by pulling the two bolts off the lower ball joint bracket which frees the spindle and the pull steering tie rod end. Then you can pry the axle straight out with somebody pulling the spindle up and out. Fish the axle through everything and swing it forward to the bumper using the upper control arms movement along with the upper ball joint. Then pull the lower control arms bump stop so you have room for a hammer to reinstall everything. You will need the ECGS tool to make your life easier. Hope that helps everyone.

    also freeze your ECGS bushing overnight in the freezer to make tapping it in easier
     
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  12. Mar 7, 2021 at 10:25 AM
    #102
    Tooly

    Tooly New Member

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    May have missed it but is this not an issue on early 4R's, like 2010, 11 or 12?
     
  13. Mar 7, 2021 at 4:49 PM
    #103
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    The issue is the front differential. I don't know if all of the 5th gen 4Runners have the same differential. I know the tacomas the tundras and the 4runners all have this issue in the newer renditions. I am assuming that the 2010 (5th gen) has the same setup. Mine was not totally bad yet but you can see where the axle was rubbing the race already. Mine has about 20,000 mi on itPXL_20210308_004439563.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
    MeefZah likes this.
  14. Mar 14, 2021 at 9:51 PM
    #104
    Klock41

    Klock41 New Member

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    3" toytec lift, jba uca's, ecgs bushing, 33" duratrac
    I just bought a 2021 4runner trd orp and the dealership put a 3" toytec bilstein lift on it after It was driving all over the road I convinced them to put uca's on it because the caster was way out and couldn't be aligned. Shortly after that I noticed the humming/vibration coming from the diff so not wanting to deal with them again I put the ecgs bushing in and it didn't fix it and it's getting worse I have 1500 miles on this thing and it's been a nightmare sense I bought it. do I need a new diff possibly or could it be something else ?
    thanks for your time
     
  15. Apr 5, 2021 at 8:31 PM
    #105
    marcusjv

    marcusjv New Member

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    Hi all,

    Identical issue to those reported here. Took the vehicle in at 30K for a major maintenance. The service team changed diff fluids, retorqued the propeller, cleaned the throttle body, etc.

    It was about 1500 miles later that I felt (not heard) cyclic grinding through the floorboards, gas pedal, and steering wheel. Found this forum and shifted into 4H; grinding went away and I concluded I had the needle bearing issue.

    Took it to the dealer and they confirmed the issue, and supposedly replaced the entire diff (updated TSB advises it). However, about a year and 9k miles later, the problem is still detectable going down a steep hill at about 30 mph.

    Took it back to the dealer, and after initially confirming the existence of the issue verbally and keeping the vehicle overnight, they claimed that Toyota wanted them to simply "take pictures and document it" and an FTS would be paying the dealer a visit to look at my truck.

    About 10 days later they backpeddled and said the FTS would NOT look at my rig, Toyota had recognized the broader issue, and wanted to have an internal discussion for some unknown time to determine next steps.

    So I still have the issue, won't apparently get it looked at by an FTS, and have no idea what will happen next. Has anyone else heard similar stuff? Am I being given a stream of BS? Is it possible that my original diff was never replaced and that the fluid was wrong or low?
     
  16. Apr 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM
    #106
    LA260

    LA260 New Member

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    Can someone post a video of exactly how it sounds if there is an issue with he needle bearing? I'm going crazy trying to figure out if my car has the issue or not. I had a diff drop, then took it out, put it back on again couple few weeks ago, and today I read another thread that says diff drop may cause it.
     
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  17. Apr 7, 2021 at 2:23 AM
    #107
    Toy4X4

    Toy4X4 New Member

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    Did you try putting the vehicle in 4WD while your hearing this sound? That is supposed to quiet it down, then when you put it back into 2WD the sound will increase again. We have 5000 miles on ours and it's had a lift on it since new with the diff. drop, according to our service manager at a recent checkup, the diff drop is what prevents the needle bearing from going out. The dealership we went to builds a bunch of lifted 4Runners and Tacomas and Tundras. But they also said it's 'hit or miss' as to if they go bad. Another thing is; can you push and pull on the axle shaft by the diff. checking if there is excess play? Good luck, this is something that bothers me too, poor design I guess.
     
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  18. Apr 7, 2021 at 9:01 AM
    #108
    LA260

    LA260 New Member

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    So your service manager is saying the diff-drop is preventing the needle bearing from going bad?? It's the complete opposite of what I heard from a different member. I can't tell a difference on my car goin from 2wd to 4wd but it's kind of hard to notice things with MT tires on.
     
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  19. Apr 7, 2021 at 9:34 AM
    #109
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    Service manager is wrong... Diff Drops HELP the needle bearing last longer but stock, unlifted, stock rubber 4Runners go bad all the time. There is a ton of play even when the needle bearing is still "Good" so it would be hard to tell from feel if yours is bad. Mine was still "okay" when I did the bushing mod and you can see what it looked like a few posts up. Really, people should do the swap just for piece of mind. It really was not hard and only took me 30 mins and 2 beers. Never got to worry about it again.
     
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  20. Apr 7, 2021 at 9:43 AM
    #110
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    I think you'll be hard pressed to find a good video because some / most of this is "feel".

    30-45 mph, a soft rumbling feel and a groaning that is cyclic (visualize the axle spinning in the bad bearings to understand the "cyclic" concept). The feel is palpable through the gas pedal and to a lesser extent through the steering wheel... but we're talking light sensations here.

    I'd find a smooth, straight, quiet stretch of road and get it to 40 mph and hold it there and listen / feel for the above. If you feel it, maintain speed and go into 4hi (it'll be fine, even on pavement). See if the sensations go away in 4hi.

    It will gradually worsen over time and mileage to a point where it's fairly obvious.

    My suggestion is, don't go looking for the needle bearing issue... because you'll think you have it and there's other variables that can cause similar sensations (tires, for example). If you think it's going bad, just monitor it for a few thousand miles. Over that time you'll have ample opportunity to consider the sensory inputs and if they are getting worse... if they are, then put in the bushing. There's no real risk of catastrophic failure so you have time to assess.
     
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  21. Apr 7, 2021 at 11:12 AM
    #111
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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  22. Apr 7, 2021 at 11:38 AM
    #112
    NotaTRD

    NotaTRD My SR5 identifies as an Off-Road

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    If you care to know, just ask.
    Very hard to make out any discernible difference in the sounds in that vid, at least to my ears.
     
  23. Apr 7, 2021 at 1:19 PM
    #113
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    exactly, it is more of a feeling, and has almost a resonance to it.
     
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  24. Apr 8, 2021 at 2:30 AM
    #114
    Toy4X4

    Toy4X4 New Member

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    I'm going by what the service manager said for the reason that he "holds the cards" as far as warranty issues are concerned. I myself would like to put the bushing kit in and forget about it. At 5k on the odom. ours was given a clean bill of health, if it were bad, they swap out the whole diff, it seems senseless when they could put in the bushing kit and not worry about it again. As long as the dealership installed the lift, and the diff drop and have a 'opinion' on something that concerns warranty issues..... ok. After warranty, I would have done the bushing thing.
     

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