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Needle bearing issue?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by COexplorer, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Mar 7, 2020 at 4:34 AM
    #31
    Georgia Native

    Georgia Native New Member

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    ECGS is the way to go.
     
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  2. Mar 7, 2020 at 5:02 AM
    #32
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I'm going to take the free replacement. If it goes again, I'm going to get the ECGS bushing.

    It's disappointing that an aftermarket part is better than the OEM part.
     
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  3. Mar 7, 2020 at 5:19 AM
    #33
    thirdyota

    thirdyota New Member

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    What's really disappointing is that this has been a Toyota issue since about 2005.
    Makes no sense at all. I get that it's hit or miss...neither of my Tacoma's had the issue, but it's still kinda pathetic that Toyota hasn't replaced a part so prone to failure.
     
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  4. Mar 7, 2020 at 5:56 AM
    #34
    Thatbassguy

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    Exactly!

    I can only guess that it's a very small percentage of vehicles that have the issue. Otherwise it seems that they would redesign the differential.
     
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  5. Mar 7, 2020 at 8:02 AM
    #35
    Georgia Native

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    I am guessing most people don't notice it or blame it on out of balance tires.
     
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  6. Mar 10, 2020 at 5:46 PM
    #36
    WallyT4R

    WallyT4R New Member

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    The necessity to have to do it again is the exact reason why I drove to ECGS and paid the money. It's now perfect for 500,000 miles
     
  7. Mar 10, 2020 at 6:31 PM
    #37
    Thatbassguy

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    I just picked up the 4runner with the new differential. The service advisor said that the part numbers have changed, indicating that they have been redesigned.

    We'll see..

    It's quieter than it EVER was. All I can hear at low speeds is the tires. I didn't realize how noisy it was until the noise was gone.

    If this one fails, I'll be doing the ECGS bushing. But, for now, I'm pretty satisfied!
     
  8. Aug 10, 2020 at 9:18 AM
    #38
    canadian.bacon

    canadian.bacon H9 halogen is the best led bulb

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    yes, it will rub
    so it is safe to assume they finally replaced the faulty part?
     
  9. Aug 10, 2020 at 12:24 PM
    #39
    runner4it

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    It looks like I have it on my 2020 ORP immediately after lifting, so I'm not sure it is resolved. It's getting looked at tomorrow so we will see if that is the case.
     
  10. Aug 10, 2020 at 12:38 PM
    #40
    Normantaco

    Normantaco New Member

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    I had this on my 2012 tacoma. I got the ECGS bushing and replaced it myself and that eliminated the vibes and sound. Haven't had the issue on the 4R, but haven't lifted and added bigger tires yet.
     
  11. Aug 10, 2020 at 1:25 PM
    #41
    jason2006

    jason2006 New Member

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    I have a 2015 Trail with 61,000 miles, recently lifted 2.5" in front and 2" rear and have no issues.
     
  12. Aug 10, 2020 at 3:06 PM
    #42
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Dumb question - The symptoms of a bad needle bearing are vibrations and faint rumble/grind. But can the needle bearing fail entirely/catastrophically? Will it damage the diff or CV axle if it fails?

    In other words, if you get the symptoms of a bad needle bearing, can you continue to drive the truck (if you can tolerate the annoying vibrations)? Or are you risking damaging additional components?
     
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  13. Aug 10, 2020 at 3:11 PM
    #43
    runner4it

    runner4it New Member

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    I have seen pictures of single needles coming out of the bearing, but haven't seen any of the bearing catastrophically failing. The Tacoma guys may have being it seemed more common there.
     
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  14. Aug 10, 2020 at 3:15 PM
    #44
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Even assuming it is single needles coming out of the bearing (but not failing catastrophically), you're risking damaging the diff or CV axle once it begins to fail, correct?
     
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  15. Aug 10, 2020 at 3:18 PM
    #45
    runner4it

    runner4it New Member

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    Yeah i would assume there is some risk in 4wd to damage the diff. some people seem to run it with no problem because it mostly looks like the shaft rests on the edge of the needle bearing. I don't have enough experience to say for sure.
     
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  16. Aug 10, 2020 at 4:12 PM
    #46
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Mine had the needle bearing issue very early on. I noticed it after a few weeks. I convinced myself that I was just being paranoid from reading about it. In warm weather, it became quieter. I forgot about it, until the second winter. I ordered new suspension, and decided to get it looked at before lifting just in case the dealer would give me a hard time. I ended up getting a whole new differential at about 28K miles. It's been quieter than ever since then, even 10K after the lift.

    Sorry for rambling. The point was that I drove on it for about 27-28K miles, off-roading as well, without issues. I am not recommending that you wait so long though.
     
  17. Aug 10, 2020 at 4:41 PM
    #47
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Great intel. Thank you.

    They also replaced your diff after 28k miles.

    I think it’s safe to say, if you’re getting the vibration, you should go ahead and do the ECGS replacement ASAP.
     
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  18. Aug 10, 2020 at 4:58 PM
    #48
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Yes. Or, get Toyota to give you a new differential. My plan was to get the free one, and go with the ECGS bushing if it fails again.
     
  19. Aug 11, 2020 at 6:29 AM
    #49
    will van

    will van New Member

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    The problem with the new diff is it still does not fix the main problem - the weak needle bearing.
     
  20. Aug 11, 2020 at 7:38 AM
    #50
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    That's not necessarily true.

    First off, the problem isn't always recurring. I believe some have had the replacement and didn't have any further issues. Aside from that, many never have the problem, which suggests that it isn't necessary a design issue.

    Second, if you read back, you'll see that I was told by the service manager at my dealership that the part number had changed. This suggests that it's possible that Toyota has corrected the issue somehow. At least to the point that it's worth a shot, especially since it was free and I didn't have to do anything.

    And, if you missed the last part of my previous post, I said that I would do the ECGS bushing if the bearing fails again. That does fix the problem.

    But, why would I spend money and time on a problem that I can get solved for free? I have about 10K miles on the replacement, and not a peep from it yet.
     
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  21. Aug 11, 2020 at 7:56 AM
    #51
    Normantaco

    Normantaco New Member

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    When I replaced the needle bearing with the ECGS bushing on my tacoma the inner shaft of the CV had some wear spots. Not sure if it would have been enough to cause an issue, but I replaced the CV as well. As previously mentioned I haven't heard of catastrophic failure due to the needle bearing.
     
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  22. Aug 11, 2020 at 8:25 AM
    #52
    will van

    will van New Member

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    My mistake. You’re absolutely correct.
     
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  23. Aug 11, 2020 at 8:31 AM
    #53
    NBtrd18

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    I am trying to figure out if I have this issue as well. I have a 2018 ORP with 36K miles. It was recently lifted in the last 5K miles. sometimes when on the highway going 60-65 mph my steering wheel has a slight shimmy side to side as I drive the vehicle. It is not a constant issue and only shows up at times. When the lift was put on there was an alignment done as well. I am still running the stock Dunlop tires in 265/70/R17 on the stock ORP rims.

    The other night I crawled underneath the 4Runner to see if there was any play in the Axle that could possibly be from the Needle Bearing. The axle has no play up and down on either side but it does however have some slight play going left to right on both sides. Not sure if this is normal or if I am just getting into my head.

    Thanks in advance for the help!
     
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  24. Aug 11, 2020 at 8:43 AM
    #54
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Does it continue to exhibit the shimmy when you engage 4-high? If the vibration goes away in 4-high, it’s a good indication it’s the needle bearing.
    You may be limited by the top-speed you are able to engage 4-high.
     
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  25. Aug 11, 2020 at 8:54 AM
    #55
    NBtrd18

    NBtrd18 New Member

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    I have not attempted to put it in 4-high and see yet because I did not want to put it in 4-High at 65 mph. But the next time it does I will slow down an find out.

    To clarify, How does putting it in 4-high make the issue go away? Mechanical rookie here...
     
  26. Aug 11, 2020 at 9:21 AM
    #56
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I think the steering wheel shimmy is separate issue. The needle bearing issue seems to present itself with a low rumbling sound that's most noticeable around 30 MPH. I confirmed mine by putting it in 4HI at 30 and it would disappear completely.

    There are probably threads dedicated to the shimmy.
     
  27. Aug 11, 2020 at 9:25 AM
    #57
    Thatbassguy

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    You could still be right. I'm just trying to be optimistic. I really dislike the idea of having to use an aftermarket part to compensate for a Toyota design issue. If it fails again, I might even try to get Toyota to replace it again. I'm trying to put off the ECGS solution as much as possible.
     
  28. Aug 11, 2020 at 9:46 AM
    #58
    runner4it

    runner4it New Member

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    Kind of sounds like the notorious steering wheel shake at highway speeds. A slight one seems to be "normal" and little more severe is usually fought with tires and rebalancing. The needle bearing makes a significant droning sound and you can feel the vibration in the floor.
     
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  29. Aug 11, 2020 at 9:50 AM
    #59
    will van

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    Here is more info on the needle bearing and ECGS repair. It's speaking about Tacomas, but the same info applies to 4Runners. I do not know exactly why engaging 4-high could potentially eliminate the vibration. I suppose because when in 2WD, the CV is vibrating between riding on the needle bearing and riding on the spider gear in the diff. When 4-high is engaged, torque is being applied to the CV through the spider gear. Thus eliminating the vibration between the spider gear and needle bearing.

    It's not 100% full-proof, but if you have lifted your truck, and are getting an oscillation/hum/vibration that 4-high eliminates, it's a good indication it's the needle bearing.

    You can hear the difference in this video. Then the driver disengages 4-high, you can hear the diff begin making the oscillating "whaa, whaa, whaa" sound.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHk8hVXzVeI
     
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  30. Aug 11, 2020 at 10:45 AM
    #60
    NBtrd18

    NBtrd18 New Member

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    @runner4it and @will van Thank yall for your help that does make a lot of sense. I will keep an eye on it and attempt to put it in 4-High if it occurs again.
     
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