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Need help with 4Runner suspension differences on 2021's

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by SoCoRuss, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. Apr 22, 2021 at 5:54 PM
    #1
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    I'm looking to replace my 2011 4R with a 2021 model. I understand that the TRD PRO has different shocks and springs for off roading. But how about the other trims?

    I was looking at a TRD PRO but dam they want full MSRP or a $5-10K market premium for them now. That's ridiculous.

    So I was looking more at a TRD Off Road or a Venture SE Model trim and add whatever I need, for probably cheaper and better parts. I like the dark accents and wheels of the Venture better.

    The TRD Off Road has the badging but the Venture doesnt have it? Is there a difference in the shocks or springs/suspension on them? Not counting KDSS.

    I know about KDSS? I have seen articles that say the KDSS is too soft for off road use? And if it breaks better have a nicely full checkbook. Anyone had a different experience with it?
     
  2. Apr 23, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    #2
    thirdyota

    thirdyota New Member

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    All of these have the same suspension unless you opt for the KDSS:

    SR5
    SR5 Premium
    Trail
    Venture
    TRD Off Road
    TRD Off Road Premium

    These have different suspensions:

    Limited has the XREAS system.

    Pro has the upgraded Fox brand suspension.
     
    Mtbpsych and Thatbassguy like this.
  3. Apr 23, 2021 at 10:52 AM
    #3
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser New Member

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    Even the KDSS 4Runners have the same shocks and coils.
     
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  4. Apr 23, 2021 at 11:43 AM
    #4
    koukimonster

    koukimonster DYNO4

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    Bigger A/T LT Tires, Slight Lift, Sliders, Rack, Lights, etc.
    Yep, just the sway bar configuration is different.

    KDSS is a nice feature. Additional features require more complexity and thus offer less reliability over-all. That said, from what I've seen, KDSS problems are few and far between. Toyota has the system down pretty well.

    KDSS means more complexity when modding and wrenching, as well as choosing parts when modding.. mostly when it comes to suspension or armor.

    I don't have KDSS, to me it's a take it or leave it. I am happy with my 4Runner's articulation as well as its on-road manners. But KDSS does provide less body roll as well as more articulation.. both of which are good things. And all for just $1500 plus a more complex vehicle. The choice is yours. Land Cruiser has KDSS standard. Not even available on the TRD Pro 4Runner. Toyota is interesting, indeed.
     
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  5. Apr 23, 2021 at 12:04 PM
    #5
    kmeeg

    kmeeg New Member

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    Atleast lot of info available online across 4Runner forums both .com and .org forum. I think last couple of days this forum also discussed KDSS problems along with the owner who were quoted $9K+. There's also info on FB 4Runner and GX owner groups. Highly recommend to avoid KDSS.

    XREAS also seem to have some issues but can easily replace with regular suspension.
     
  6. Apr 23, 2021 at 1:42 PM
    #6
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for the info. It helps.

    It hard to delineate the different trims. Why would you have a TRD Off Road and OR Premium, badged as something more off road and different but its the same as other trims?

    I like the TRD PRO but in this current environment, I don't know if I can justify the higher price with no deals and dealers asking from MSRP to $10K over MSRP.. The only thing I see diff is the roof rack, shocks and springs and tires.

    The Venture looks pretty good with the darker trim and dark wheels. I would think I can upgrade the suspension/shocks and basically create a TRD PRO for less cost?

    I see some of you have the OR and ORP and the Venture, was it because of cost that you went with those trims vs a PRO?

    How do you like like Venture?
     
  7. Apr 23, 2021 at 1:51 PM
    #7
    kmeeg

    kmeeg New Member

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    Since everyone like to lift their 4Runners many like to save money not buying a Pro and use that money for a good suspension setup.

    Pro has a relatively good suspension but only got about an inch lift in front and give same ground clearance as any other trim. Many 4Runner owners go 2.5 - 3 in lift front and 2in rear and go minimum 33in (ish) tires. 1in front lift on Pro does not help you to get bigger tires. So if you don't want special color it's not worth spending that extra money.

    You can get top of the line suspension lift setup for $4K-5K. And complete front to back skids for about $1K.


    (update) Forgot to tell about the tires -

    7.5in wide wheels on the TRD OR meets the minimum tire requirement for 285/70R17 tires.
    7in wide wheels on TRD Pro & SR5 wheels are not recommended for common 285/70R17 tires.
     
  8. Apr 23, 2021 at 2:17 PM
    #8
    Reldn

    Reldn New Member

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    The Off Road and ORP do have some differences that make them more Off-road worthy right out of the gate than the other trims. They come with Crawl Control, Multi-Terrain Select, and a locking rear differential that isn't on trims like the SR5/P, Trail, Limited, and Nightshade.
     
  9. Apr 24, 2021 at 4:55 AM
    #9
    DJPSC

    DJPSC New Member

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    XP Package, KDSS, TRD Wheels, Pro Grille
    All great information, I ended up with a ORP with X package. That came with TRD Pro wheels, upgraded Nitto Ridge tires, blacked out overlay, predator steps and some other stuff. Mine had KDSS. I upgraded to a Billstein front and rear strut which gave me 1.75 F and 1 R. I looked into trying to get a Pro, but the wait was crazy long and could not be happier with the one I ended up with. I guess my point is you will be SO happy with whatever trim you decide to ultimately get. This forum helped me tremendously with many upgrades and ideas. Good luck! Searching and finding which 4R is part of the fun!!
     
  10. Apr 24, 2021 at 6:01 AM
    #10
    Cowboy59

    Cowboy59 New Member

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    Really love having KDSS on my 2020 4R. Eliminates awful body roll.
     
    DJPSC likes this.
  11. Apr 24, 2021 at 6:06 AM
    #11
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    It will depend on your use, and preference. For mild to moderate off-road use, it's been great. It helps with off camber articulation off-road, and also reduces body roll in curves on the road. I'm very happy with it.

    For hardcore off-road use, I would skip it. It becomes a limitation for long travel setups. And, if you're building a rock crawler, you'll likely delete the sway bars anyway.

    There have been a handful of failures, some of which have been caused by off-road abuse and some have been caused by a lack of maintenance.

    If you're more concerned with simplicity than the improved handling and articulation, it may not be worth the extra money for you.

    Yes. It's easy to surpass the PRO's capability with an off-road and a few thousand dollars in upgrades. The PRO is the best off the lot, but if you're planning a suspension and tire upgrades you might as well save your money.

    Cost, and the availability of KDSS. But, mainly cost. I have probably spent about as much as a stock PRO would have cost between purchasing my off-road and modifying it way beyond the PRO's capability.

    This is just my preference. The PRO is still the best in stock form.
     
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  12. Apr 24, 2021 at 9:20 PM
    #12
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    KDSS has been around since 2004, when it was an option on the Lexus GX 470, was updated to the current style electro-mechanical system on the 2008 Lexus LX 570 and has been on the Land Cruiser since 2008. I believe it's been offered on the Trail 4Runner since 2010, and the Off Road 4Runner since 2017. With 17 years of use since its inception, and 13 years of use in its current configuration, I'd say it's been tested and proven to work as designed. Generally, but not always, those who warn against buying a 4R with KDSS have never owned one, and are basing their negative feedback on second-hand knowledge of someone who had an issue. This is a good article about 4Rs with KDSS:

    https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/23/toyota-4runner-suspension-deep-dive/

    For what it does, it's well worth the cost. If we never bought anything because it's too expensive to fix when it breaks, I'd venture to say we'd all still be riding bicycles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
    LA260, DJPSC, Cowboy59 and 1 other person like this.
  13. Apr 24, 2021 at 9:47 PM
    #13
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Excellent post!
     
  14. Apr 27, 2021 at 2:32 PM
    #14
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    hanks for the info, you all have been very helpfull.
     
  15. Apr 27, 2021 at 2:34 PM
    #15
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    I forgot to ask one thing. So if there are minimum issues for the wheels on the OR and PRO. What about the ventures wheel sizes? Are they the same or different?
     
  16. Apr 27, 2021 at 2:35 PM
    #16
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    And Thanks for all the info, it really helpful....
     
  17. Apr 28, 2021 at 6:25 AM
    #17
    neoflex

    neoflex New Member

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    The Venture is essentially and off-road premium with black accents, Pro wheels and roof rack.
     
  18. Apr 28, 2021 at 11:31 AM
    #18
    koukimonster

    koukimonster DYNO4

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    Bigger A/T LT Tires, Slight Lift, Sliders, Rack, Lights, etc.
    Yes the Venture wheels are also only 7" wide (same wheels as the old Pro), but many many many guys run 285's on them and I've yet to see one problem. It does go against the tire manufacturers recommendations, so you decide what you're comfortable with.

    I dig my Venture. The Venture is just a TRD ORP with a few extra bits. I feel the extras are worth the cost difference, assuming that the Venture is as easy to haggle on as the TRD ORP is. Some are now saying that even Venture's are commanding a price premium in some markets. I avoided the Pro because of cost.. it was outside of my price range, and that was before the current market in which they're being even further marked up. The Pro does have some nice features, such as the stereo, rare paint color, suspension, skid plate, A/T tires... but if you are into modding, many of those features become moot for the price. To this day, the stereo and memory seats are all I miss from a Pro. Don't get me wrong though, it'd be really nice to have those features. But the suspension, roof rack, and tires I've already replaced. Now, had I gotten a Pro, would I have bothered replacing those? Maybe not. My truck certainly looks more badass than a stock Pro does.. but does it actually perform any better? Nah.. not really.
     
  19. May 3, 2021 at 6:40 PM
    #19
    SoCoRuss

    SoCoRuss [OP] New Member

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    I bit the bullet and ordered a new Red Venture this afternoon and now I wait.;)
     

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