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Need advice - Scared shop is taking advantage

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by texas4runermom, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:33 AM
    #1
    texas4runermom

    texas4runermom [OP] New Member

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    Hi!

    So I'm a single mom and know nothing about this stuff but hopeful someone here can tell me I'm worrying about something I shouldn't be or that I should run. I have a 2018 SR5 premium with the 4wd I can turn on whenever I need to. It's totally stock with 265/70/17 tires and 7" wheels.

    I went to a shop near me because I wanted to beef her up a little with better tires and they sold me on a Rough Country 2" level lift, some rugged looking new nerf bars, and then XD852 17x9 wheels with Nitto G2 265/70/17 tires (which were the tires I wanted, but they picked the wheels basically). The version of G2 they ordered are the LT 10 ply and they have max wheel width of 8.5 but they ordered 17x9 XD's. They told me "we are professionals, we do this all the time, it's fine" but I'm really concerned. Should I be?

    I am single mom with kids, all highway and city driving but I would like option of going up a trail if I wanted to, I drive fast when I drive. Is this really ok to put those tires on bigger than intended wheel? I don't need blowouts or anything else going wrong.

    They also haven't said anything to me about how lift or the wider wheels are going to affect my driving or ride. Can anyone tell me what to expect? If this is all a bad idea I guess I'm putting wheels and tires and everything in my garage until can sell to someone else (I already paid for it all and they won't refund me.)
     
    Toy4X4 and Thatbassguy like this.
  2. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:43 AM
    #2
    Antman

    Antman New Member

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    Have you got everything installed? I’d go to another shop and avoid the rough country. What did they charge for all of this?
     
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  3. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM
    #3
    texas4runermom

    texas4runermom [OP] New Member

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    I'm supposed to go later this week to have it all installed. It was a little over $3800 for all plus install (3 hours x $100 each for lift install and $85 install for the nerf bars, then charge for an alignment too).

    I just don't want my truck unsafe if this mix of items they sold me isn't a good match. Id rather stick it all in garage than let them install if it's going to cause me problems.
     
  4. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:52 AM
    #4
    Living the dream

    Living the dream New Member

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    Since you could spend a lot of money, I would take your time and educate yourself about lifts and tires. There are tons of good articles on this site as well as others. Research is key to get what you want at a fair price.

    https://www.4runners.com/forums/suspension.19/

    https://trail4runner.com/2020/02/21/best-tire-options-5th-gen-4runner/

    https://trail4runner.com/2017/06/14/5th-gen-4runner-mods-lift-kits/

    https://trail4runner.com/2017/11/25/5th-gen-4runner-rock-sliders/

    https://trail4runner.com/
     
  5. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:56 AM
    #5
    texas4runermom

    texas4runermom [OP] New Member

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    Thank you, I'll dig into those. My main concern was the 9" rims when tires say 8.5" max rim width, that's the part that scares me. And what the wider rims (since my stock are 7") will do to my driving/handling. I'll read up all I can find - thanks :)
     
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  6. Nov 14, 2020 at 8:58 AM
    #6
    A&P

    A&P Name: Kevin

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    It's a shame you didn't come here 1st. I don't have any information to help:sorry: except. Next time you do ANY kind of Maintenance/Improvement/Purchase on ANYTHING, go to the interweb & seek out as much info as you can BEFORE committing to anything!! I HATE,HATE sleazy/take advantage of ANYONE kind of business people!!!!:annoyed::annoyed::censored::argue::frustrated::mad::evil::puke: Good luck & keep us informed!:cheers:
     
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  7. Nov 14, 2020 at 9:05 AM
    #7
    edgesalon

    edgesalon New Member

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    hey @texas4runermom before you go back read some the post above they are very informative it will help you with your decision look to see if there is a Texas 4runner FB page to get recommendation to a shop, and look at the reviews from the shop that your have gone to
    you might want to look around to see what you need before buying and installing. Good luck
     
  8. Nov 14, 2020 at 9:08 AM
    #8
    Antman

    Antman New Member

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    Please do not install any of that or use that shop. Their robbing you. Please call Marie at headstrong offroad, tell her your budget and what you want out of it. She will help you assemble quality parts.


    https://www.headstrongoffroad.com/

    Then you can find a quality shop to install them.

    as far as rims and tires I’d look on your own and order from discount tire for the tires and find a rim you like online.
     
  9. Nov 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM
    #9
    Redned

    Redned New Member

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    The Nitto’s do show 8.5” max wheel width. Using a 9” rim is a legitimate concern. That shop owes you a better explanation than they know what they are doing- don’t let them push you around. Before they mount them in your car they can always send them back and get the right size.
     
  10. Nov 14, 2020 at 9:30 AM
    #10
    moorei2

    moorei2 New Member

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    A lot of great advice given above. If the wheels are wider than recommended for that tire it would cause a harsher ride. I also suggest finding a different shop and doing some research as to what you want as well as asking questions on the forum

    Also, if looking to hit trails, I would avoid the spacer lift (i.e. Rough Country) and look towards a suspension lift. For your budget you should be able to get a a good suspension lift, UCAs (depending on height), and upgraded tires (and possibly wheels as well). I just did the same, though I did most of the work myself, and wasn't too far off your number.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
    A&P and texas4runermom [OP] like this.
  11. Nov 14, 2020 at 9:36 AM
    #11
    trlhiker

    trlhiker New Member

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    If you haven't done so already, tell them to cancel your order. They never should have "picked" the wheels out for you. They should be able to send everything back if they have already received them. Then come back here and do your homework before buying anything else. Lots of good knowledgeable people on here.
     
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  12. Nov 14, 2020 at 10:10 AM
    #12
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    Assholes call travel "overlanding"
    Disclaimer, I am only an internet tough guy, I have no real understanding of how CC companies do shit

    Having said that:

    That's a lot of scratch. You use a CC I assume? Drop that shit off at the shop, tell them you want a refund, if they don't comply then leave that shit lie and file a claim with your CC as you didn't receive the goods or services you paid for.

    To answer your question, it's not unsafe; but if you don't like it / want it / understand how it will be used, then you are wasting your money. Get those tires you want in factory size on stock wheels and be done with it, and for a grand or less probably.
     
  13. Nov 14, 2020 at 10:14 AM
    #13
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    California, rest in peace
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    Assholes call travel "overlanding"
    Wheels are actually not bad looking though... but I stand by my comment, save your money.



    [​IMG]
     
  14. Nov 14, 2020 at 10:42 AM
    #14
    Antman

    Antman New Member

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    for the price they charged her she could of got fox 2.0’s and ucas
     
  15. Nov 14, 2020 at 12:38 PM
    #15
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

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    So here's some ballparks:
    Nitto 265/70/r17 P metric = $161 / tire. (Why not E load, heavy, if you're not offroading it's overkill...TRD Pro come with P metric...)
    Wheels = $250 / wheel, this is an average.
    Rough country spacer lift 4Runner = $129
    Nerf bars (not rock sliders) = $500 (my guess)
    You said 3 hours @ $100/hr + $85 for nerf install (WHICH Is a rip off, it's literally 6 bolts on each side and if it took 5 minutes they were screwing around).

    So far we have:
    (4) x 161 = $644
    (4) x 250 = $1000
    $129
    $500
    $385

    That equals $2658.....so yea....$3800 is way out of line, even if you spent more on the wheels or more on the tires and factored Taxes....you need to make up $1100 somewhere.

    One last note, I ran a 265/70/r17 Nitto Terra grappler G2 on a 9" wheel, so I know what you will get. It was fine, but it looked kinda strange because the tire is stretched. Personally, I wouldn't do that again and intentionally bought less wide wheels next time for that exact reason.
     
  16. Nov 15, 2020 at 5:15 AM
    #16
    MAXIM

    MAXIM New Member

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    Unless you want a lift for more clearance or looks you don't need one for 265/70/17R tires. I've 285/70/17 Nitto TG (see sig) without lift and 0 issues. Do not get 9 in wheel because it will severely limit your tire choices. Also, if they talking down to you already ("we are professionals, we do this all the time, it's fine") then I wouldn't do business there because they can not be trusted.
     
  17. Nov 15, 2020 at 5:48 AM
    #17
    Mohoman

    Mohoman New Member

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    @texas4runermom I’m sure the inundation of all this information is a little crazy. I live in the Austin area and can recommend some good work here, Houston, and Dallas/ft worth area.

    The Austin area is from a personal friend who is more about Tacoma’s but specializes in Toyota’s and offers great rates (you’ll have to buy the parts; as @Antman said, call headstrong). The shops in Dallas/Houston should be able to buy the parts directly.

    DM me if I can be of more assistance!
    cheers!!
     
  18. Nov 15, 2020 at 5:50 AM
    #18
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I have to agree with what everyone is saying. They are charging you too much. I would at least try to return the lift, if possible.

    I ran 265/70/17's on 17×9" wheels for a year on and if road with no issues. I wouldn't be worried unless you're going rock crawling with it.
     
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  19. Nov 15, 2020 at 7:17 AM
    #19
    1Louder

    1Louder New Member

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    Unless you want a cosmetic change you can stick with factory rims and save yourself a lot of money. Unless you are going to do more difficult trails stick with factory size tires albeit better ones and maintain your MPG. The 4Runner is very capable at stock height. If you want to do more of the rougher terrain then yes a lift and 33" tires are always a consideration.
     
  20. Nov 15, 2020 at 4:01 PM
    #20
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    Spacer lifts are perfectly adequate for 99% of "off-roading" most 4Runner owners will ever do. Take it from someone who's been "off-roading" in the Idaho wilderness for close to 35 years in everything from modified Jeeps to Pintos.
     
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  21. Nov 17, 2020 at 7:29 PM
    #21
    2Trex

    2Trex New Member

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    I’m not sure where you are with this but you may want to check the offset of the wheels. The offset moves the wheel/tire in or out. Improper offset could cause rubbing.
     
  22. Nov 18, 2020 at 5:18 AM
    #22
    Agent_Outside

    Agent_Outside New Member

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    Out of curiosity I’d like to hear an expert opinion on what eventually makes it not perfectly adequate off road. What is the limit to a spacers effectiveness and what are you thinking are the downside? What can go wrong with a spacer lift that only the most hardcore 1% of owners wouldn’t find them adequate?
     
  23. Nov 18, 2020 at 10:32 PM
    #23
    MountainMan

    MountainMan New Member

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    A spacer's weak spot is it's ability to pop out if the suspension components reach max articulation in certain situations. Plus, a spacer simply adds more clearance and does not enhance the suspension's ability to articulate.

    I noticed when I installed the ones on my 4Runner, that there is no way for them to come out no matter how far the suspension flexes. It is mechanically impossible. On other suspension designs, limiting straps can be used to prevent excessive articulation. They are also used with regular lift kits in order to prevent damage to other components.

    But the two main reasons for a suspension lift are 1) more room for bigger tires, and 2) increased articulation. Bigger tires give you more clearance and increased traction. More articulation helps keep those bigger tires in contact with the ground.

    Spacers let you install slightly bigger tires, but do nothing for articulation. So, a mild spacer lift like the 2.5" ones we put on our 4Runners are just fine and simply add the room for a slightly bigger tire. They are not going to hurt you off-road or damage components, or pop out while under max flex.

    Taller spacers in other suspension designs are generally a bad idea, however, and can negatively affect component angles and strength. Plus, if you are going from a 31" tire, to a 35" or taller tire using nothing but spacers, then you are increasing the strain on components by mechanically multiplying forces exponentially due to larger tires and steeper angles. That leads to breaking stuff.

    Of course, going to a 35" tire using a suspension lift could also break stuff unless you also beef up the axle shafts and CV joints.

    But for the majority of 4Runner owners who are doing mild trails, and even some fairly difficult trails, with 285s and 2.5" spacers, they will be just fine.
     
  24. Nov 19, 2020 at 6:26 AM
    #24
    Agent_Outside

    Agent_Outside New Member

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    I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about how the spacers actually effect things. There is never any chance of a spacer falling out on 4Runner. That’s not a thing. The actual problem with spacers is compressing the suspension. A big pothole, a washout or rut you didn’t see coming on a dirt road, a g-out, they can all fully compress the suspension. When the suspension fully compresses there a bump stop that get smashed between the control arm and the frame that absorbs the hit so the dampers don’t. When you add a spacer, let’s say a 3 inch spacer, you make it so the suspension can’t physically hit the bump stop anymore. The dampener will bottom out on itself and smash metal to metal internally long before it can even start to hit the bump stop. There is a ton of force that should be absorbed that gets transferred to things that should receive that much force. The result is the lower shock mount bending at best and the upper spring mount braking off the frame at worst. Spacers remove a fundamental component of suspension functionality. The only safe way to run a spacer on the 4Runners IFS is to extend the hump stops by a significant amount so they can still function, but at that point you’ve removed so much travel from the suspension that they aren’t even worth having.

    An actual suspension lift on the 4Runners IFS does not add tire clearance, however a spacer can in the sense that you remove upwards travel from the suspension so you won’t stuff a tire, but that is completely the wrong way to go about accomplishing that.

    When 1 big unexpected bump can cause catastrophic failure I’d argue they are not adequate for any off-roading.


    When the suspension bottoms out hard and the spacers prevent the bump stop from doing their job here’s what you end up with...
    5BCC0532-05C6-407C-9690-9A82FBE25827.jpg
     
  25. Nov 19, 2020 at 8:37 AM
    #25
    ant the ninja

    ant the ninja New Member

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    How did you make out with your shop?
     
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  26. Nov 19, 2020 at 8:46 AM
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    Red_5

    Red_5 New Member

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    Hopefully she ditched that shop. TBH, I'd go to a Discount Tire and talk things through with them. They're not always the cheapest, but I've found them to offer solid advice and solid pricing. Their sales guys don't work on commission, so that helps a lot.

    I wouldn't do anything else to the truck until I lived with the tires (and wheels, if you want them) for a while. Lifting is a whole different ball game, and honest mechanics are hard to find.
     
  27. Nov 19, 2020 at 9:14 AM
    #27
    edgesalon

    edgesalon New Member

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    great point @Agent_Outside thanks for sharing
     
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  28. Nov 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM
    #28
    texas4runermom

    texas4runermom [OP] New Member

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    I'm very thankful to everyone who responded and give me input or information. I was an idiot for just buying all kinds of crap without knowing what it was or thinking about it. I had "even more awesome 4runner" vision in my head and was blinded.

    Since they wouldn't let me return anything they ordered I did just let them put it all on. I'm actually quite happy with how it turned out so far. If anything goes wrong I won't go back there and thanks to you guys and some 4R groups on facebook I now have many more contacts for future 4R mods or fixes.

    Thanks again!!!

    (P.s. I understand now how to research and search on here and will do that first in the future )
     
  29. Nov 20, 2020 at 2:35 PM
    #29
    A&P

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    Glad you're happy:cheers: I just hate hearing how they really hosed you on the prices!!:censored::frustrated:
    I just they're some other local 4Runner owners on here & get the message out on these rat bastards!!!:censored:
     
    texas4runermom [OP] likes this.
  30. Nov 20, 2020 at 2:45 PM
    #30
    flyinhoot

    flyinhoot When in doubt, Throttle out.

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