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Metal oil filter housing

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by banjos-n-beer, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. Nov 2, 2022 at 5:25 PM
    #91
    Captain Spalding

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    Thanks for that. I actually haven’t gotten one yet, as I’m still a ways away from the first oil change.
    Are you saying that the dealership said installing a Fumoto valve will void your warranty?
     
  2. Nov 2, 2022 at 6:25 PM
    #92
    Spare Parts

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    I didn't get into a discussion with them, when I said I had already done an oil change as I installed the valve, I was told something about not being covered under warranty. I didn't ask question, I was more frustrated that I had already told them I changed the oil and rotated the tires when I made the appointment, and then I was told I was wasting my time bringing it in.
    I figure if it dumps oil everywhere, then they can deny me, but other than that, they have no grounds to deny anything.
     
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  3. Nov 2, 2022 at 7:42 PM
    #93
    McSpazatron

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    Dont give them a reason to deny it. If you ever need to take it in for warrantee, honestly, I’d recommend putting the stock drain plug back in for that appt. If they can, in any way, relate the problem to that valve, they will.

    It doesnt have to be proven for them to say no. Basically, you’ll be legally correct, but they’ll put the ball in your court and leave it to you to escalate it. Returning everything to stock if you ever have a potentially large warranty claim will be less trouble.
     
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  4. Nov 2, 2022 at 8:26 PM
    #94
    ElectroBoy

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    Just swap the center tube (and it’s spring) from the plastic one. It’s just held in place with metal tabs that can be bent a little to allow removal/replacement as you push down and twist. And get the Toyota housing, not an aftermarket one.
     
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  5. Nov 5, 2022 at 7:18 AM
    #95
    timkins42

    timkins42 New Member

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    Why do you need to swap out the rube in the center if it’s a factory Toyota install.
     
  6. Nov 5, 2022 at 7:30 AM
    #96
    Spare Parts

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    Why would you not just switch them if the original on the 4Runner is longer? Risk/reward type situation in my book. It’s an easy task, you are going through the trouble of swapping out the plastic one, why not take the very short time to change em? In fact it took longer to read this post than it would to change it out.

    in fact, I’ll add another sentence just in case more time is needed.
     
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  7. Nov 5, 2022 at 7:35 AM
    #97
    Singleminded

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    Well, thank you for stating the obvious but I don't have that choice.:rolleyes: Ironically, given your post, I didn't bother with the whole story cause I was trying not to take up too much time, mine or others. But here it is:

    My shop installed the metal filter housing without swapping over the tube, and now I think the old tube and broken housing are off to the great landfill in the sky. So that's why I'm wondering how big of a deal it is that I'm running the truck with the shorter tube. Do plan to get a longer tube in there at some point, but now I have to source one somewhere.

    I'm not actually sure how the oil gets distributed through the filter. When you look at this cartridge setup, it kinda seems like a bathtub and the oil just sloshes around in there, under pressure of course, going in and out of the filter in a somewhat random fashion. The tube is presumably intended to force dirty oil through the filter, moving inside-out. So a longer tube would spurt more oil out higher up the filter. That makes sense.

    But when you look at the design of this thing, seeing the fitting that's attached to the block that the filter housing screws into, it seems as though oil is just gonna be pressed through the filter from all sides and top to bottom anyway. I don't see how all or even most of the oil can be forced through that tube.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
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  8. Nov 5, 2022 at 10:08 AM
    #98
    ElectroBoy

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    I believe you’re correct that oil direction is from inner to outer through the filter paper.
    If you look up the p/n for the metal filter housing (15620-31060) it is actually spec’d for Avalon, Camry, Highlander, RAV4, Sienna, Venza, which use a shorter filter. Hence a shorter center tube.
    I would just take the cost hit and buy an OEM plastic housing just for the center tube. Maybe on eBay.
     
  9. Nov 5, 2022 at 10:17 AM
    #99
    Captain Spalding

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    If it were me I’d get the long tube, even if I had to buy another plastic filter housing.

    ETA: Elelectroboy you beat me to it!
     
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  10. Nov 5, 2022 at 10:18 AM
    #100
    Singleminded

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    Thx. Prob will. In the meantime I Would love to hear from an engineer on my observation above: But when you look at the design of this thing, seeing the fitting that's attached to the block that the filter housing screws into, it seems as though oil is just gonna be pressed through the filter from all sides and top to bottom anyway. I don't see how all or even most of the oil can be forced through that tube.
     
  11. Nov 5, 2022 at 11:33 AM
    #101
    LuLu

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    Is all 5 Generation T4R oil change such a PITA ?
    or just the 2022 TRD Sports.
    This is my first T4R.

    Not surprised the rookie oil change tech are cutting corners.

    High recommended to stay/watch the shops changing the oil.
    I don't have the skills to change my oil.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP1EgnTIJQY
     
  12. Nov 5, 2022 at 1:34 PM
    #102
    timkins42

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  13. Nov 5, 2022 at 1:48 PM
    #103
    ElectroBoy

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    Has anyone taken photos of that area? I forget how it looks. Trying to imagine how the oil flows.
     
  14. Nov 5, 2022 at 1:49 PM
    #104
    bulldog

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  15. Nov 5, 2022 at 1:56 PM
    #105
    Singleminded

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    Can’t see inside that well but I think this is the part that connects the filter housing to the engine block. I don’t see how you don’t just have oil flowing every which way around and through the filter. It seems more like an oil bath and the filter just filters what it filters as the oil gets pushed around in the housing. How could it be forced only into that tube, to be forced through the filter from the inside out? Again, it seems more like the oil would be going every which way around, over and through the filter. Need an auto engineer to explain this lol!

    B72BC7B0-88FD-45FB-B8A6-90D81B347D40.jpg
     
  16. Nov 5, 2022 at 2:07 PM
    #106
    bulldog

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  17. Nov 5, 2022 at 2:45 PM
    #107
    Singleminded

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    Ok, I'm pretty sure I've figured this out via that miracle known as Googling, and a subset of that miracle known as youtube. :D

    The oil pump pushes the dirty oil into the housing along the outside of the filter. The pressure pushes the oil through the filter, from the outside in, and then this cleaner oil is pushed up through the middle of the filter and back to the engine.

    The tube is there to prevent the filter from being crushed by this pressure. On a traditional spin-on canister type filter, this is often accomplished by a metal mesh lining along the inside of the filter. But in a cartridge type filter, the replaceable part is just the filter element itself. So we need something else to prevent it from being crushed.

    Don't know how much of a risk it is in practice, but one can at least imagine a filter without a sufficiently long tube becoming crushed enough at the top to prevent the cleaner oil from flowing back into the engine as designed. My hunch is that the same pressure that would squeeze the filter in on itself would also be squeezing it out as the oil flows up from the inside, so really it's not that big of a risk. But who knows. When I next remove my filter I'll take a look at it and report back! Will it be crushed?

    The other function of that tube assembly is its spring, which forces the filter upwards to seal against a mating surface on the engine block to assure that the dirty oil flows only along the outside of the filter, and the cleaner oil flows back into the engine from the space inside the filter.

    Finally, the space below this tube/spring assembly acts as a bypass valve to assure the oil continues to flow through the housing and back to the engine in the event the filter becomes completely clogged.

    See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLVyfaIVofc

    and https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...oil-flow-into-the-filter.164825/#post-2433599

    OilFilter (1).jpg
     
  18. Nov 5, 2022 at 3:13 PM
    #108
    ElectroBoy

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    Good find. That’s what I also found out with a little more research. Even though the filter element is quite rigid the perforated tube acts to support it and keep its shape under pressure.
     
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  19. Nov 5, 2022 at 3:32 PM
    #109
    timkins42

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    Thank you. That is the info I wanted.
     
  20. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:22 PM
    #110
    Singleminded

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    PS — my guess is the bypass valve works by releasing the pressure that pushes the filter up against its mating surface on the engine block. The filter would drop down and the oil would just get pumped here and there, over, under and around the filter, before retiring to the engine. The housing would become the kind of oil bath I’d described before. Poor filtration of course, but perhaps not none.

    Which makes me wonder lol — how long will oil last without filtration? After how many miles would you have done serious damage?
     
  21. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:42 PM
    #111
    Singleminded

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    I get the temptation, but after reading about the pros and cons of canister vs cartridge systems I’m content to have the latter.

    Cartridges reduce waste to landfills, and avoid the cost and inefficiency of recycling the canisters, which retain a lot more toxic used oil.

    In principle cartridges are also more reliable, since the housings are much less likely to be torn or punctured by road debris or idiot oil change techs. (Something that happened to me at my friendly neighborhood Subaru dealer — I leaked oil all over my driveway and no doubt the two miles between the dealer and my house).

    Also, this is my fourth vehicle with a cartridge system (two BMWs and a VW) and changing the oil is only another couple steps and 5 minutes of DIY.

    I do think the auto manufacturers often cut corners by specifying plastic housings. I was definitely being an idiot when I broke mine, but if it was metal I wouldn’t have gotten into that situation. That issue aside, my oil change was easy. And not any messier than usual. The worst part was unbolting the skid plate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
  22. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:47 PM
    #112
    Captain Spalding

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    Hmm. Air-cooled VW engines essentially have no oil filter (it’s literally a wire mesh basket in the sump) and the oil change interval for those engines is 3000 miles, if that’s any indication.
     
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  23. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:51 PM
    #113
    Singleminded

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    Good info. I imagine it also matters whether the engine is broken in. Would be more comfortable going filterless at 50k miles than 1k miles.
     
  24. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:54 PM
    #114
    2Toys

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    There is a very good reason for the oil to flow from the outside to inside on a filter cartridge. The removed filter can be inspected for debris or metal :eek: on the outside trapped in the pleats. This provides an opportunity to discover a problem before becoming a disaster. Cannister filters are extremely difficult to open for inspection without causing a ton of metal debris to be deposited on the outside of the very thing one wishes to inspect.
     
  25. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:56 PM
    #115
    Singleminded

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    Great point. This is another “pro” in the pro-con list for cartridge filters.
     
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  26. Nov 5, 2022 at 4:59 PM
    #116
    2Toys

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    And, as you stated, less waste in the landfills.
     
  27. Nov 5, 2022 at 8:12 PM
    #117
    Singleminded

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    I’ll add another “pro” for cartridges: you can see and touch exactly what you have. There’s no mystery about the condition of the filter media, the gaskets, or the bypass valve before you decide to install them. It’s all right there, you can pick it up, feel it, turn it around, check on it from all sides.

    Who knows what you’re really getting inside that metal can.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
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  28. Nov 5, 2022 at 8:23 PM
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    Slopemaster

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  29. Nov 5, 2022 at 11:23 PM
    #119
    ElectroBoy

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    The plastic housing will not break in normal use as long as it is properly torqued when installed. But there are many cases of them being overtightened by dealers or others and then breaking when DIYers try to remove them. Not having a proper oil filter wrench will exacerbate the possibility of breakage.

    Here’s one thread on the other forum about this.
     
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  30. Nov 6, 2022 at 5:21 AM
    #120
    Singleminded

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    Right. It's hardly crazy to stick with the plastic one Toyota gave us. I'm not saying people should certainly switch to the metal version. But I do think the metal one is better on balance, so I am making that switch for myself.

    While my experience cracking the plastic housing, causing new oil to spurt everywhere and all the rest of it, was due mostly to my own incompetence, including my use of a poor wrench (and perhaps exacerbated by the last tech who changed my oil, as I think one of the plastic tabs was already mangled before I got to it), the experience does illustrate that these housings are somewhat vulnerable. As seen in the forums, many others have had similar experiences.

    My guess is that if you're careful, the plastic housing will last as long as the rest of the truck. And if it breaks, nothing wrong with replacing it with a new plastic housing. But for me, I just rather not have this risk. And the fact that Toyota specs the metal version on many of its vehicles tells me it does not have significant downsides.
     
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