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Mechanic said I waited too long and it burned through 2 quarts

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by CASD4Runner, Feb 24, 2023.

  1. May 14, 2024 at 8:26 AM
    #121
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    Good point of correction, but the overall theme stands that a lot of these guys who never turned a wrench seem to think there are chunks of metal the size of a dime in three left over from rough machining at the factory... which is comical...
     
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  2. May 14, 2024 at 8:27 AM
    #122
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    Doesn't need any
    For one thing, applying silicone sealant from a tube would take way too long and be way too inconsistent for production assembly of an engine.

    As I said, perhaps a small dab at some joints might be employed. Besides all that do you have any idea how the oiling system in an engine works? Unless this excess silicone you are so concerned about was so egregious to plug up the screen and the oil pickup thus starving the engine of oil, there's no way that it would ever reach the moving parts in the engine. The first place it all goes after it is picked up by the oil pump is the oil filter.
     
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  3. May 14, 2024 at 8:30 AM
    #123
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    ^^ +1, and the filter stops pretty much everything bigger than something like 20-30 microns IIRC.
     
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  4. May 14, 2024 at 8:33 AM
    #124
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    BTW, this thread is getting almost as funny as BMW forum discussion on reliability where guys complain about all the common failure points in them like plastic water pumps, fuel injectors, coil packs, window regulators and electronics - and then somebody comes in and says if they just changed the oil more often it would last forever:goingcrazy:
     
  5. May 14, 2024 at 8:35 AM
    #125
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    Doesn't need any
    The threads I like are posted by people that advocate having their tires filled with nitrogen!
     
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  6. May 14, 2024 at 8:43 AM
    #126
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    To review:
    1) Windage trays don't protect against overfilling at some point. And regardless the design, whipped oil is bad.
    2) Early first oil changes are great. They allow for removal of lots of baddies.
    3) Most wear occurs in the first miles of a new engine.
    4) Silicone sealant is used in new engines and can present itself in the oil.

    I'm sure I missed some things, but felt it important to review the pertinent points after all the "misdirection."
     
  7. May 14, 2024 at 8:58 AM
    #127
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    On point #1, I haven't seen where anyone posted that the windage tray would prevent problems in a grossly overfilled engine. Unless the oil level is above the windage tray there is not a significant chance that oil will be picked up by the crankshaft.
    To elaborate on point #3. Most engine wear and oil contamination occurs in the 1st few minutes after the engine is cold started regardless of how many miles are on the engine. Hence the one size fits all 5000 mile oil change fallacy.

    On point #4, can you provide pictures of this silicone contamination in an OEM assembled engine? I've never seen it. Have you ever disassembled an OEM assembled engine to witness this?

    I'll admit that my experience is limited but I have never seen this phenomenon.

    I have however, seen where Jack leg mechanics have caused engine damage due to the excess use of silicone.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
  8. May 14, 2024 at 9:56 AM
    #128
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^This is chutes and ladders! Peace brother.
     
  9. May 14, 2024 at 10:05 AM
    #129
    jeepster09

    jeepster09 Re-Member

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    A work in progress.....
    It is not the LARGE CHUNKS that take out camshafts.....it is the fine ARBASIVE grit that does the damage.
    I'm done here. Change it 10k if you want, I don't care.
    Now we should go onto why you HAVE TO USE HARLEY OIL in a Harley....:poking:
     
  10. May 14, 2024 at 10:49 AM
    #130
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    That’s easy, cause the Harley spends so much time in the shop it’s just easier to grab the Harley oil.
     
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  11. May 14, 2024 at 11:20 AM
    #131
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    It's inadequate lubrication that destroys roller cams usually from extended idling. This is particularly true for Gen III Chrysler Hemis.

    Why would fine abrasives be more damaging to a roller cam then it would be to plain bearing inserts on the crankshaft?
     
  12. May 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM
    #132
    Scotty4run

    Scotty4run New Member

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    Are you ok? Pretty sure the guy in the video said "silica", not silicone... Silica is what we often call "sand".
     
  13. May 14, 2024 at 12:11 PM
    #133
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    Are you ok I wasn't quoting any video. I was quoting a repeated reference to SILICONE being posted as a possible contaminant.
     
  14. May 14, 2024 at 6:05 PM
    #134
    Scotty4run

    Scotty4run New Member

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    You are the one tellin us about silicone...
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
  15. May 14, 2024 at 8:35 PM
    #135
    2Toys

    2Toys Imperial Star Cruiser

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    Glad I still have disregard...
     
  16. May 14, 2024 at 8:38 PM
    #136
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    Makes for an interesting thread, when you can't see all the nonsense being bantered about, save for an occasional quote...:)
     
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  17. May 14, 2024 at 8:39 PM
    #137
    2Toys

    2Toys Imperial Star Cruiser

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    Sure does.
     
  18. May 15, 2024 at 3:36 AM
    #138
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    Perhaps you should read posts before you reply
     
  19. May 15, 2024 at 5:10 AM
    #139
    Scotty4run

    Scotty4run New Member

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    Yep, see post 119. You are the first clown tellin us about silicone. Silicon is not silicone. You are the silicone guy.
     
  20. May 15, 2024 at 5:28 AM
    #140
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    where are these “fine abrasives” coming from? There is no actual evidence or data presented in this thread, just peoples opinions.

    the FACTS we know are:
    1. Toyota does not reccomend an early oil change
    2. The oil filter captures every particle larger than about 20 MICRONS
    3. A blackstone labs report will tell you the amount of iron and aluminum is in a used sample and they report in parts per MILLION


    If you have something authoritative to share that proves there are particles big enough to cause major abrasion please share.
     
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  21. May 15, 2024 at 5:43 AM
    #141
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    You could try claiming that high metal in the oil is not a big deal, but it is well-documented that this is the case. Here is initial oil analysis from my car, oil changed very early to address that issue.


    Comment from the lab also states: Samples from brand new engines like this one typically contain some extra metal and silicon, so these results aren't unusual. Aluminum and copper are high as the result of wear-in, and silicon comes from silicone-based sealers and lube. On the right, the universal averages for the 1GR-FE engine show how it tends to wear after ~9700 km on the oil, and your reports should resemble averages once all this stuff clear out (probably another couple oil changes).

    Edited to add: Universal averages for 1GR-FE for copper is 2ppm, iron is 10ppm, and manganese is 1ppm. Averages provided by Blackstone Laboratories.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
  22. May 15, 2024 at 6:09 AM
    #142
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    Key point in bold. Notice they did not say it was a problem. Engine break in is a deliberate wear process. What you shared doesn't disprove that and also doesn't support the assertation being made here that those extra wear metals in the first change are effecting longevity.
     
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  23. May 15, 2024 at 6:30 AM
    #143
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    I'm sorry if you were mistreated as a child. That's the only thing I can think of that explains your hostility and name calling. Perhaps your health insurance covers mental health. Counseling might help you with your apparently unresolved angry issues.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
  24. May 15, 2024 at 6:30 AM
    #144
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    Extra metals do reduce engine longevity, this is well-established in literature, books, and engine maintenance practices. A quick Google Scholar search presents dozens of articles supporting this view. For example, Study of Metal Concentration in Lubricating Oil with Predictive Purposes or The Effects of Engine Oil Viscosity and Composition on Bearing Wear.

    The only argument available to you is the magnitude of this effect. For example, increasing MTTF (mean time to failure) from 20 years or 250,000 miles to 30 years or 400,000 miles might be significant and also not very meaningful as it would exceed expected life cycle of the truck.

    Personally, I keep my cars long time and take care of them. Even with that in mind, I don't expect to personally benefit from an early oil change. The kinds of problems it is intended to address are just too far down the line.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
  25. May 27, 2024 at 9:09 AM
    #145
    jeepster09

    jeepster09 Re-Member

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  26. May 28, 2024 at 6:48 AM
    #146
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    The one true statement in that whole line of bullshit was "there is no magic number" .

    Oil change intervals are dependent on driving habits!

    The most ridiculous statement was "I require 3000 mile oil change intervals for warranty on my engines"

    If someone told me that, I would definitely not be buying their engines. It's probably just a scam to bail out on any warranty work. It's not 1970 and we are not using organic oil!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2024 at 9:58 AM
  27. May 28, 2024 at 7:32 AM
    #147
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

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    Bullshit, 10k oil changes with any brand of synthetic oil and your motor will go 500k miles EASY
     
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  28. May 28, 2024 at 8:22 AM
    #148
    jeepster09

    jeepster09 Re-Member

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    Opinions are like......everyone has one. :boink:
     
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