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Mechanic said I waited too long and it burned through 2 quarts

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by CASD4Runner, Feb 24, 2023.

  1. May 12, 2024 at 11:00 PM
    #91
    Yotaholic

    Yotaholic New Member

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    Change the oil yourself, 5000 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first. No harm in changing your oil every 3000 miles if you go offroad A LOT
     
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  2. May 13, 2024 at 5:46 AM
    #92
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    This is especially true for Subaru dealers, they tend to overfill oil as they know a lot of boxer engines burn oil and it would trigger yellow warning low oil level light prior to the next oil change if they use proper fill.

    For 4Runner, I don't think they typically burn oil, but I think any engine with 0w20 or 0w16 will burn at least a little bit. The oil is too thin for scraper rings to remove all of it.

    My view is that slight overfill is not a big deal, you'd have to put enough extra oil for pistonsrotating assembly to start whipping it around for it to become an issue.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2024
  3. May 13, 2024 at 8:04 AM
    #93
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^I think the crank counterweights come in contact first?
     
  4. May 13, 2024 at 8:20 AM
    #94
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    :D true. If the pistons actually hit the sump oil you have bigger problems than burning a little oil....
     
  5. May 13, 2024 at 10:20 AM
    #95
    ElectroBoy

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    I drive my front tires up on ramps to change the oil. It’s a lot easier to maneuver around that way.
     
  6. May 13, 2024 at 11:07 AM
    #96
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    There should be a windage tray to prevent that unless it is grossly over filled. I doubt 1 quart over would bring the level that high.
     
  7. May 13, 2024 at 11:24 AM
    #97
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^That tray just slows down the oil flow "up" the pan sides. It is not hermetic. Overfilled will act like the tray isn't there (exaggeration).
     
  8. May 13, 2024 at 11:56 AM
    #98
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    I'm aware of what a windage tray is. FYI the purpose is to keep the "wind" from the rotating crank from picking up and slinging the oil, hence the name windage tray.

    Unless the pan is grossly overfilled, the level of the oil will not be above the windage tray.
     
  9. May 13, 2024 at 12:09 PM
    #99
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    Yes, you are right. I was thinking bottom of connecting rods when typing, but crankshaft counterweights typically will be taller that that.

    Regardless, it takes A LOT of overfill to get to that oil level point during normal driving. Now, if you spend a lot of time standing on your brakes, it is different story.
     
  10. May 13, 2024 at 12:32 PM
    #100
    Airdam

    Airdam New Member

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    I think some of the over-fill and under-fill stories are from people who get their oil changed and the person doing the job doesnt look up the specs in the book.
    Toyota Tacoma with 1GR-FE took 5.5 quarts
    2003-2009 4Runner with 1GR-FE took 5.5 quarts
    2010+ 4Runner with 1GR-FE takes 6.6 quarts

    I suspect a lot of this "over full" and "under full" comes from mechanics not knowing which is which and not doing the job properly. However like stated above by RickG, his should take 6.6 quarts and to see the oil 3/4" up the dipstick means someone put a WHOLE LOT more than they needed, thats like 2 gallons of oil easy. (8 quarts)
     
  11. May 13, 2024 at 2:17 PM
    #101
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    The crank counterweights don't have to actually come in contact with the oil. There is a term called windage, which basically is what the crank counterweights generate and it can pick up oil. I'm pretty sure that Toyota's engines have windage trays to help prevent that. Unless the pan is grossly overfilled to where the oil level is above the windage tray there shouldn't be a problem.
     
  12. May 14, 2024 at 3:47 AM
    #102
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^ The statement from Sin4R that at some point excessively high oil level will contact the rotating assembly is correct. This is true w/ or w/o a windage tray. Nice flex though ;).
     
  13. May 14, 2024 at 5:09 AM
    #103
    jeepster09

    jeepster09 Re-Member

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    A work in progress.....
    I change oil every 3000 miles. Oil is cheaper than parts! A lot of the EXTENDED oil change intervals was dreamed up as a MARKETING TOOL. "Our brand vehicle is cheaper to own than brand X vehicle". Back when I worked for an automotive company, my boss went by that schedule and needed the camshafts replaced due to excessive wear; my vehicle got oil changed at MY INTERVALS and continued running good until turned in. We turned them in at 60,000. The miles racked up quick since being road warriors. My point is do what you want; or you can protect your investment and use common sense. :boink:
     
  14. May 14, 2024 at 5:31 AM
    #104
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    Let's see, the oil companies and car manufacturers are employing a marketing tool to sell less product? It's the oil change industry that is employing a marketing tool.
    In the days of carburetors, looser engine tolerances and organic oil, 3000 mile oil changes were sound advice. Now they are wasteful and not good for the environment.

    Some people's driving habits require more frequent oil changes, 5000 miles with synthetic oil might be appropriate for constant stop and go driving, long periods idling or short trips where the condensation contaminates the oil.

    It all depends upon driving habits.
     
  15. May 14, 2024 at 6:15 AM
    #105
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    Just curious, what about the first oil change? 3000 or sooner? Since the greatest wear occurs when new, sooner than 3000 would be justified I think.
     
  16. May 14, 2024 at 6:19 AM
    #106
    2021venture

    2021venture New Member

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    1000 mile break in oil change is my strategy. Is it needed, who knows but calms down my OCD and getting rid of break in metals.

    For most people that get rid of cars none of this matters. Even abused vehicles make it to 100k. Lasting beyond 200k the little things help.
     
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  17. May 14, 2024 at 6:29 AM
    #107
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    +1000 this is not 1972. Send your oil to Blackstone for an analysis. you will be surprised. Or just follow the recommendations of the company that spent hundreds of millions of dollars engineering, testing and manufacturing these vehicles.


    Ive been driving for over 30 years. Ive owned or driven everything from brand new cars to old clunkers with 280,000+ on the clock, from a dozen different manufacturers across Japan, the US and Europe. straight 4s, straight 6s, v6s and v8s. N/A and turbo. Even diesels. Ive used everything from Mobil1 and Pennzoil Platinum to the cheapest conventional dino oil on the shelf.

    In all of that experience , Ive never once had a block apart to replace rings, valve seals or main bearings. Ever. I think people overthink this stuff.
     
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  18. May 14, 2024 at 6:36 AM
    #108
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    Some automakers put a special break in oil at the factory that has higher levels of Molybdenum and other additives to manage break in wear. Changing it early is actually counterproductive.

    Guys: break in wear is not bits of metal you can actually see like when your trans is eating itself and you find chips on the magnetic plug!! ... The break in wear are microscopic particles that come from the rings bedding in the the cylinder and the crank journals seating into the main and rod bearings. The engine actually NEEDS to wear for this to happen properly - that's why rebuilt engines get a crosshatch hone on the cylinder - to create deliberate friction and bed the ring. These tiny particles either get trapped by the filter or if small enough to pass though just circulate harmlessly.
     
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  19. May 14, 2024 at 6:37 AM
    #109
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^You don't think an early first oil change is strategic? Getting all that early wear material and machining/assembly/casting crap out of there?
     
  20. May 14, 2024 at 6:39 AM
    #110
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    Did you read my entire post?

    There is no "machining assembly casting crap" (whatever htat even means??) and the wear particles from the rings bedding in are microscopic.
     
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  21. May 14, 2024 at 6:44 AM
    #111
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^Read it. Don't agreed w/ it. UOA's prove this. This is science, not a romance novel lol.
     
  22. May 14, 2024 at 7:00 AM
    #112
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    So show me your "science' behind the "machining assembly casting crap" or post up your blackstone analysis showing high wear materials at 1000 miles.


    These are not T-34 tanks rolling out of a soviet factory in 1943. The are not leaving rough unfinished surfaces internally. Just go search for 1GR-FE teardown vids on youtube if you don't believe me.

    Or take a look at this interesting thread on the rebuild of one at Tacomaworld. Owner was seeing silver in his oil so he did a full tear down and rebuild. Inside of the engine was freaking pristine - look at page 4 the cylinders still have visible crosshatch. Page 5 the rod bearings are polished like a mirror. Even took apart the oil pump and found nothing.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/1gr-fe-rebuild.743548/
    You know what the silver turned out to be? He had installed aftermarket high flow cats. One of them disintegrated and the EGR system was sucking particles of platnuim back in though the exhaust valve (edit: and the further I read he also had aftermarket hot cams with more exhaust opening overlap that made it suck even more in than it would have stock) . One of the oil control rings was gummed up and stuck allowing these particles to get scraped down the cylinder wall into the oil.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
  23. May 14, 2024 at 7:12 AM
    #113
    jeepster09

    jeepster09 Re-Member

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    A work in progress.....
    The first parts that usually fail are camshafts, lifters etc. due to abrasion. The oil is not wearing out....the contaminants that infilterate the oil are causing wear. Changing the oil gets rid of the abrasive material. If you want to be cheap....GO AHEAD it's your vehicle. I have NEVER had an internal engine problem. I also change my LIFETIME COOLANT at around 40,000 miles. The coolant becomes acidic and eats gaskets. Changing coolant saves gaskets. :spending:

    P.S.
    In my career working as a WARRANTY AUDITOR I have seen lots of failures. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Sometimes the real world is a little different.
     
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  24. May 14, 2024 at 7:14 AM
    #114
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^ Silicon can drop significantly from the first change - evidence of new engine crap. UOA's show this. Sealant also can be found in used oil, often mostly in the first change. But the initial point was the value of an early first oil change. The earlier the better or....

    This guy speaks to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nWCQ_70J0
     
  25. May 14, 2024 at 7:22 AM
    #115
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    The main reason for crosshatch is to retain oil even after break-in. You would be amazed at the finish of platue hones cylinder walls that are now the norm. While the crosshatch is still present, the top layer of the cylinder wall has a smoother surface than what used to be normal. Very little wear is needed to seat modern rings/cylinder walls.

    While break-in is still valid, it us a far cry from what it used to be.
     
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  26. May 14, 2024 at 7:27 AM
    #116
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    So the oil filter doesn't remove these abrasive contaminants? What about condensation from repeated short trips?
     
  27. May 14, 2024 at 7:31 AM
    #117
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    And how does this silicone and other contaminants get past the oil filter?

    BTW the only people that use significant silicone in engine assembly are usually inept beginners.
     
  28. May 14, 2024 at 7:34 AM
    #118
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^I think Toyota for one uses silicone sealant...
     
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  29. May 14, 2024 at 7:56 AM
    #119
    RUNNER4DAN

    RUNNER4DAN New Member

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    You think wrong. Except for a miniscule amount of silicone sealant at places like the oil pan/timing cover joints, any silicone sealants I have ever seen in an OEM assembled engine are not squeezed out from a caulking tube. The silicone is usually an integral part of the gasket and is already cured. The only place I've seen this was on intake manifold gaskets. Very few traditional gaskets are used anymore.

    When I assemble an engine or transmission I avoid silicone like the plague.
     
  30. May 14, 2024 at 7:59 AM
    #120
    jgalt

    jgalt New Member

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    ^Ya sure? FIP is how it is applied. Timing cover? Cam tower?
     

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