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Major fail: keyfob remote start then the truck won't start at all!

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by Singleminded, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Jan 1, 2022 at 6:37 AM
    #31
    4R21

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    Toyotas with smart key system ( ones with push start ) will shut off the engine when you open the door to prevent theft. Thats just the way they are. Sounds like the brain did not tell it to kill the engine ! :rolleyes:
     
  2. Jan 1, 2022 at 7:47 AM
    #32
    Singleminded

    Singleminded [OP] New Member

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    I'm sorry to see this is problem is not uncommon, but glad people are alerting Toyota. It's got to be a software issue and thus easily fixed. In another thread I posted how my 2020's battery went dead after garaging the truck for just a few days (moderate temps too). I have a strong feeling that there's computer activity happening when it shouldn't. Some of it may be due to the new safety systems and/or Remote Services being active when they needn't be. I think that sort of thing was the culprit in the epidemic of Rav4 batteries dying.

    Again, bad software design. This key fob remote start problem seems like just another example of poor programming by Toyota.

    Another reason why often times less tech is better than more!!!
     
  3. Jan 2, 2022 at 12:03 AM
    #33
    thatgreen4lr

    thatgreen4lr New Member

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    So you can use the heater? (genuine question as I live in a warmer climate...)
     
  4. Jan 2, 2022 at 12:11 AM
    #34
    Mass4runner

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    I've been considering trading my '19 for a '22 but threads like this have me reconsidering. I like 4runners because they use proven tech and they work. I never liked push button start because it introduces a potential point of failure that didn't exist before and the benefit of the feature is negligible even if it works properly. This is not progress and Toyota better figure this out because your vehicle's ignition needs to work 100% of the time without exception.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
  5. Jan 2, 2022 at 12:30 AM
    #35
    DallasTRDPro

    DallasTRDPro New Member

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    Here's a question. Is this only happening with the Toyota remote start or also with aftermarket systems? I have an aftermarket one and have had no problems so far.
     
  6. Jan 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM
    #36
    4R21

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    You do understand just like every other manufacturer they too use vendors so if there is an issue it will take time to fix it investigate and perhaps issue a recall.
     
  7. Jan 2, 2022 at 7:00 AM
    #37
    DallasTRDPro

    DallasTRDPro New Member

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    I use mine to start and leave the 4R running during the summer mostly since we see 100* temps. I will use it to start my 4R since we went from 75* to 16* today. Having a Compustar I had them program it to start and run for 30 minutes before it will shut off. The stock system only goes for 10 minutes.
     
    4R21 likes this.
  8. Jan 2, 2022 at 7:48 AM
    #38
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

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    When it’s 0°F outside, that’s American temperatures, and your truck is outside all night long, it makes a huge difference if you can warm it up in your driveway.

    Keyless entry makes it so you can warm it up without being present near or in the vehicle or worrying if someone will drive off with it.

    Plus, in many places it’s illegal to leave an unattended truck with the keys in it, whether it’s locked or not.
     
    Singleminded [OP] likes this.
  9. Jan 2, 2022 at 9:30 AM
    #39
    Mass4runner

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    As a consumer it should make zero difference whether Toyota themselves created the problem or whether it was one of their suppliers. They are responsible for what they sell and if my car won't start it hardly makes me feel better if it was some random suppliers fault. One of the primary reasons people buy a 4Runner is reliability, and if there are even a handful of cars that randomly won't even start, that is a HUGE fail. And as I said, I'm not a fan of push button start on any car because it introduces complexity and potential failure to a function that should be absolutely bulletproof.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
    McSpazatron, JerryC and LandCruiser like this.
  10. Jan 2, 2022 at 9:51 AM
    #40
    4R21

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    Take the number of vehicles with the issue divide it by the number vehicles produced very very low percentage. Good luck if you think every vehicle is going to be 100 percent purrrfect even if it was made in JA PAN .

    Regardless ! if it is new they should fix the issue. TOYOTA will do whats right we hope.
     
  11. Jan 2, 2022 at 9:54 AM
    #41
    Mass4runner

    Mass4runner New Member

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    The problem has apparently existed since 2020 and it's still happening on '22 models. They haven't fixed the issue.
     
  12. Jan 2, 2022 at 9:57 AM
    #42
    4R21

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    You would think the would be a TSB by now
     
  13. Jan 2, 2022 at 12:06 PM
    #43
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    Update* so after the issue I had (no start after remote start and then the battery dead next day I charged the battery)that night I went out to check and make sure no lights were on in the vehicle including the visor mirror lights thinking maybe they were stuck on, all was good. day after it started no problem we went on a 2 hr drive and did some furniture shopping and came home, Locked the doors as usual. 2 days later (today) went to open the door of truck and would not open, tried the fob, nothing. Used the little key to open and find out the trucks completely dead. I have it on charge now. Truck has 35000km and is only a year and a half old (I bought brand new) and completely stock, I have a hard time thinking the battery is the culprit especially after the no start after using the fob to remote start the other day. Any ideas from anyone?
     
  14. Jan 2, 2022 at 6:30 PM
    #44
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    @Toyota4life, Either your battery is bad or you have an unexpectedly large load (fault) on the battery. Do you have any non-OEM electrical mods?

    You need to check if you have a too high parasitic current draw when turned off and after all the ECUs have gone to sleep.

    Get a multimeter with current measuring capability. Set it up to measure current in the 10A range first. Connect it in series with the battery ground terminal and take a current reading. If it’s below 1Amp switch the meter to a lower current range setting to get a more accurate reading.

    Here’s what I get for my 18 ORP. No remote start. Keyed ignition. Removed the OBDII interface dongle, it draws power even with the ignition off.

    After getting out of the drivers seat, did not arm the alarm, and closing the door the dome lights etc are on for 30 seconds or so while it draws about 600mA.

    Then it drops to about 135 mA and stays there for about 20 minutes.

    Then the ECUs go into sleep mode and it drops to about 12mA and stays there.

    I saw somewhere in a Toyota service manual that typical is 50 mA or less.

    Try this and let us know your results.

    PS: When the meter is in current mode (range setting switch and probes in the proper meter inputs), DO NOT measure the battery voltage. You will blow the meter’s internal fuse and it’s a minor PIA to replace it. Everybody does this at least once in their career so don’t feel bad if you do, lol. Just be mindful around electricity. Good luck.
     
    ecoterragaia likes this.
  15. Jan 2, 2022 at 6:44 PM
    #45
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    Thanks, our runner is completely stock except for a dealer installed brake controller that piggybacks a couple of the harnesses so no splicing. I thought of disconnecting it but it’s -18 degrees Celsius right now and snowmobiles are taking up the shop. I don’t see it being that controller. I’m going to start by charging the battery and swing by Toyota to do a proper load test on the battery then go from there. I’ll keep you posted. Appreciate the responses
     
  16. Jan 3, 2022 at 11:19 AM
    #46
    DaveW

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    Happened to me for a third time a week before Christmas. I had enough and called Toyota Roadside assistance who towed it into the dealership. The service tech called me later and told me that there was a weak cell in the car battery that may have been causing the problem and he replaced the battery on warranty. Since then I have been starting the 4R every morning with the fob (we have had a cold snap in the -20 to -35° C range) and there has been no problems. Hopefully that has resolved things for me.
     
    ecoterragaia likes this.
  17. Jan 3, 2022 at 11:29 AM
    #47
    4R21

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  18. Jan 3, 2022 at 2:42 PM
    #48
    DRobs

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    We had the dead battery issue with our 2020 Rav4 TRD Off Road. Pretty sure the server in the vehicle was running all night long and not allowing the vehicle to fully shut off. I took it in twice for 2 dead batteries and mentioned Lemon Law to the service guy the 2nd time. They disabled all that internet stuff on the 2nd visit for the same issue.

    Seemed to work fine after that but... I traded it on a 2021 Highlander XSE a few months ago.

    We keep our cars in a garage at night so rarely use the remote start.
     
    Singleminded [OP] likes this.
  19. Jan 5, 2022 at 7:51 AM
    #49
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    Dropped the battery off this morning and just got a call from Toyota. Battery failed on their test machine. They will be giving me a new battery under warranty. I’m still confident these are 2 separate issues but time will tell. I’m worried the issue drained the battery and the 2 nights of -10c froze the discharged battery leaving it irreparable. Thanks everyone for the comments I will post back with any news.
     
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  20. Jan 12, 2022 at 10:58 AM
    #50
    Jjs_t4r

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    21’ 4runner sr5p here (bought 2020 oct.)
    Had the same issue happen to me 4 times twice in 2021 dec and twice now jan 2022, when it happens i remove the positive connector on the battery and wait a bit and the vehicle would start. This is really getting annoying for the first year i had the vehicle it was all smooth sailing, just started acting up back in 2021 dec. You guys think getting an after market car starter will fix this issue?

    EDIT: Might i add this only happens via starting the vehicle with the keyfob, manually starting it (foot on the break and press start) has been no issues.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022 at 5:00 AM
    ecoterragaia and LandCruiser like this.
  21. Jan 12, 2022 at 11:10 AM
    #51
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

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    I can guarantee you it would make things worse.
     
  22. Jan 12, 2022 at 4:56 PM
    #52
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

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    Me thinks it may be a satellite connectivity problem. Not a key fob or vehicle related issue. That's my WAG. fwiw
     
  23. Jan 13, 2022 at 5:48 AM
    #53
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    We had the same problem but I would not go with aftermarket. Our 4 runner has been ok so far since changing the Battery and we have been using the fob to start often to try and prove otherwise . If you are near a Toyota dealer swing by and they will test the vehicles battery for you, ours failed so it was replaced under warranty. Whether true or not the mechanic said even though the battery is strong enough to start the vehicles it could be outputting a lower voltage when the starter engages and sometimes the electronics don’t like that and could get jammed up. It is normal to not re start after you try to drive it, as it’s a safety feature built in to lock out for 10 minutes. (I believe he said 10 minutes) our runner is a 2020 with 35000km so was odd the battery was done, but things happen.
     
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  24. Jan 13, 2022 at 10:25 AM
    #54
    ElectroBoy

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    Glad you’re back in business. Fluctuating voltages can cause wacky electronic operation.

    But what the dealer said about not starting for x minutes as a safety feature doesn’t fly. What if you were stalled on railroad tracks?
     
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  25. Jan 13, 2022 at 11:11 AM
    #55
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    Wouldn't be much of a safety feature in that scenario, now would it?
     
  26. Jan 13, 2022 at 11:23 AM
    #56
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    Not standing up for the dealer/Toyota at all lol but I don’t think we would need to remote start if we were on train tracks :) I’ve only heard the stall issue when starting with the fob unless someone has experienced something else. The reason was if someone/a kid was in a vehicle and you weren’t aware and from your house you remote started, the vehicle can’t be moved and will shut off. Was explained as a anti theft/safety thing. I will say I have left the kids/dog in the 4runner to run into the corner store before in the summer and wanted to leave Ac on. I get out and remote start it leaving them with AC in a locked vehicle that they couldn’t accidentally move or no one could steal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022 at 11:28 AM
  27. Jan 13, 2022 at 8:33 PM
    #57
    ElectroBoy

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    That scenario makes sense. But I wonder about the supposed 10 minute disable.
     
  28. Jan 13, 2022 at 10:05 PM
    #58
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    Is it a disable of the remote start, or any start?
     
  29. Jan 14, 2022 at 5:38 AM
    #59
    Toyota4life

    Toyota4life New Member

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    Disables any start. I’ve tried to start any way I could think and nothing even switching fobs. Either disconnect the battery and reconnect or wait.
     

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