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How to disconnect the tracking telemetry on the 5th gen 4Runner

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by zerosignal, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Sep 28, 2021 at 9:16 AM
    #211
    M_RED

    M_RED New Member

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    I wish my life was so interesting that someone ACTUALLY wanted to track me... that would be exciting...

    Soo.... what kind of crazy illegal shit are you doing on a daily basis?
     
  2. Sep 28, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    #212
    trouble_shooting

    trouble_shooting New Member

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    Not today Mr. 3 letter agency person :oldglory:
     
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  3. Sep 28, 2021 at 11:03 AM
    #213
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    I wouldnt go so far as saying we are engaging illegal activity on a daily basis, for some of us it’s just a side-gig :rimshot:

    Seriously though (pardon the rant), have you ever had someone follow you around all day and just quietly watch you? Maybe they occasionally take notes while they watch? They don’t tell you why they are taking notes either, but you’ve already been informed that they are observing you for the purpose of taking advantage of you. Well, It’s like that.

    Most people find would find that annoying. Some dont, I guess…
    But admit it, if you were a kid, and your younger brother watched you like that, you’d want to punch him in the face :D

    In reality, the situation is arguably worse, because the observer’s boss fired him and just found better and cheaper automated ways of collecting all that information from you (including by employing your vehicle to collect some of this data).


    So, the question really is why anybody would be ok with knowing that somebody is observing you, all the time. The answer is pretty simple, in my opinion. All organisms, including humans, have built in systems that allow them to get used to, and eventually tune out, almost anything. To the point of death, if they dont realize what is going on.

    That fact (the biological/psychological process of habituation) has allowed tech companies to worm their way into every aspect of our lives. Including our children’s lives (as soon as they get into school and open up their “google classroom” on their laptops).

    Being observed won’t kill our bodies (like the infamous boiled frog). But the impact of being observed by people looking to gain advantage over us has a very toxic impact on society. It allows the tech companies huge control over the ability to shape us any way they want. Our preferences, desires, opinions, our politics...all are being powerfully shaped to make these tech companies a buck or give them more power. This eventually kills the individuals individuality, the ability to act individually, and it does not respect the right for the individual to know who is trying to shape them, and for what purpose. Nor does it respect the right for parents to protect and shape their own children.

    As people, we should all be shaped by something…by parents, good teachers, the better aspects of society, etc. If not, we would be useless blobs and leeches.

    The question is, what do we do when we find out somebody is shaping us and our kids for their purposes, when we don’t know their purposes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  4. Sep 28, 2021 at 2:29 PM
    #214
    Pr0jectMA

    Pr0jectMA New Member

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    STOCK

    I mean i think as long as its on "paper" whether or not you were directed towards it, covers their bases. I honestly use a phone quite often, and I'm being tracked on that, so whats the harm in another thing.
     
  5. Sep 28, 2021 at 2:44 PM
    #215
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    This is about far more than location tracking.
     
  6. Sep 28, 2021 at 7:00 PM
    #216
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    The harm is, more harm. If somebody knocks my teeth out, I wouldn’t want them using that as a reason to then kick me in the nuts, just because my teeth are out. I would at least politely ask them to stop lol.

    More data from more sources just creates a more complete picture of you, and more entities/third parties having access to it. It’s important to note that it’s not people (directly) crunching this data, it’s AI written by people. The more data you feed it, and the more sources of data, the more it will impact all sorts of things in your life. Good AI will paint a better and more honest picture of yourself than you ever could. Bad AI will paint a deceptive picture of you, that in all likelyhood will eventually impact you negatively, because this data never dies, it builds and builds. Nothing is deleted.

    The companies that buy up this information dont have time to analyze data, they just want whatever the AI programs have already concluded about you, accurate or not, fair or not. Whether you get credit, a mortgage (and the interest rate) a particular job, you name it. It’s all on the table. Nothing is sacred.

    I’m not as crazy as I sound. I understand why many folks just dont care anymore about certain things. There are a lot of things I cared about protecting or teaching in my younger years that I just kinda gave up on. I kinda figure, some things arent my problem anymore…it’s for the next generation. I certainly dont like to keep fighting in a fight I feel I cant win, or in a fight that is already over.

    But regardless, this topic still kinda gnaws at me. So much will be different not very far into the future. Our next generation are going to become strangers to us in very quick and severe manner. I understand values change every generation, but I feel like what is coming to our “google analytics shaped” society is going to hurt us in very personal, direct, and deep ways.

    Geez, I’m such a Debbie downer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  7. Sep 28, 2021 at 7:11 PM
    #217
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Well said.

    But, again, this is about a lot more than location tracking. Or your driving behavior.
     
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  8. Sep 29, 2021 at 3:07 PM
    #218
    M_RED

    M_RED New Member

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    I think we are already at a point of generating so much data, there is no way to practically sort through it to find patterns to identify any illegal stuff...... i think there would a case to be made if somehow we.. wait, no no no...no I mean "they", those sneaky 3 letter acronym folks, already knew you were doing illegal stuff... Then they could start sorting out all the stuff THEY may want to look at.

    If anything, disabling the trackers may just make them look at you sooner... The clever thing to do is make a point to add random unprecedented trips, new routes.. get out of a routine while doing normal tasks... that would disguise patterns in data more....
     
  9. Sep 29, 2021 at 3:56 PM
    #219
    Bald Michelins

    Bald Michelins New Member

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    No squeaks or rattles for me. I did spend some time on the interstate today and I noticed up to two bars on the DCM indicator. Unplugging the antennas does not disable the data link when in populated areas. I'm still looking for a finite "turn it the F off solution that won't affect the microphone". That may be a reach for a while.
     
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  10. Sep 29, 2021 at 4:30 PM
    #220
    trouble_shooting

    trouble_shooting New Member

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    My main concern is Toyota or anyone else communicating to MY truck without my consent. It’s not necessarily the outbound data, it’s the inbound data.
    There’s no benefit in my opinion to have cellular service through the vehicle. The nay sayers are always proclaiming “you have your cell phone on you, what’s the big deal?” Indeed I do, so…. why do I need it in the vehicle as well?

    The vehicle computer systems may be vulnerable to hacks, viruses if connected to the internet.
    On the flip side, no internet- not hacks or viruses:deadhorse:
     
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  11. Sep 30, 2021 at 5:38 AM
    #221
    MI-FL off roader

    MI-FL off roader T4R Hobby/Addict

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    Too many mods and too much money
    IMHO with so much control and gathering of our data and tracking of our daily movements, buying trends, comms, etc, etc, someone somewhere will consider almost anything we do illegal.
    Proposed mileage taxes could put everyone with a disconnected vehicle at risk of breaking the law. The base tax on older vehicles not equipped with tracking will be interesting as well. Australia is coming to dinner, and sooner than we think.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfr...-vehicle-mileage-tax-program/?sh=1b83d3d031c6
    Edit: I guess everyone would have to have a device installed. So not being connected to Toyota would be moot if this passes. This device could be installed with a circuit to disable your ignition if you dont pay your taxes or comply with whatever they deem non-compliant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  12. Sep 30, 2021 at 6:54 AM
    #222
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Sigh… Im sure that most people are conditioned enough to accept this type of price per mile tax scheme.

    Next will be insurance companies asking for legal authority to track everybody’s driving habits so they can micromanage and “develop accurate risk based premiums”. All for the purpose of being “fair” to everyone.

    Im sure nobody will mind that either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  13. Sep 30, 2021 at 7:00 AM
    #223
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Ugh. So much to be concerned about in addition to tracking and privacy and how to administer it. It’s the govt mindset that the public will readily accept “user fees” instead of increased taxes to pay for needed improvements, under the guise of fairness.

    Years ago in CA my county govt starting charging an entrance parking fee in previously free county parks. I believe it was through a ballot measure that was voted on. It sounded OK until people realized that every time you wanted a quick lunchtime picnic or after work jog you’d be paying real money. What used to be a free day out with the kids turned out be an unexpected expense especially for low income folks. And fees always increase over time.

    Auto insurance companies are already doing a form of a mileage based fee structure. Each year I get a questionnaire to declare my mileage driven and to explain if it’s really below what they think it should be.
     
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  14. Sep 30, 2021 at 8:55 AM
    #224
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    The more data you have, the easier it becomes to find (or frankly, create patterns). It all depends on what the AI that’s “interpreting” the data is looking for…what it’s programmed to find. The methods used by AI programs when looking for patterns and making conclusions about all of us, is not subject to open scientific or ethical scrutiny. These are proprietary AI programs written to serve the “shareholders” (in other words, to make ungodly amounts of money without consideration of anything else)

    Bingo! If someone wants to nail you they’ll be able to. Just hope nobody has the desire to do so. If somebody thinks laws will protect their rights…laws change.

    And this isn’t even taking into consideration people in countries where there are poor individual rights. Product from companies like facebook have already gotten people rounded up and killed in places like the Phillipines, at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  15. Sep 30, 2021 at 10:06 AM
    #225
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Just like in your computer/phone web browser, where cookies, trackers, and other identifiers are used to build a “fingerprint” of your device to track your web behavior, the same could be done with GPS and other info from an automotive system. Building more info into your personal database. You cannot delete anything that’s already out there. But maybe you can prevent more data about you from being hoovered up. At least it will feel good trying.

    BTW, be careful of what you disclose to the public. Case in point:
    https://www.4runners.com/threads/what-do-4runner-owners-do-for-a-living.22216/
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  16. Sep 30, 2021 at 12:42 PM
    #226
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    No squeaks or rattles here.

    I've said it before, I could care less about government tracking me. It's about unregulated collection, profile-building, and selling to private parties and advertisers. With no control on how my data are used, this has the ability to have more impact on my daily life than government.

    Data collection is creeping into everything now, needlessly, and it's pushing out non-connected options. It's just kind of frustrating to want something that's higher quality, and for a purpose that doesn't require the internet, but you have to agree to being tracked. It's even more frustrating to pay for something, and then become a continuous revenue source. Buying a product is no longer the end of a transaction, you're being exploited with zero control and zero benefit to yourself.
     
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  17. Oct 17, 2021 at 1:13 PM
    #227
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    Well, the antenna disconnect thing isn't working. Did some highway driving today and the DCM cellular reception indicator showed up to two bars at multiple points along the trip. Checked the Toyota app and it updated the odometer and fuel status as well. Bummer.
     
  18. Oct 17, 2021 at 2:37 PM
    #228
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Just curious, have you already called toyota to have them disconnect the service? I did that right away when I got mine. When I start the 4runner, I get some red and green alternate blinking, but then it goes dark.

    I have to check the DCM cell reception, but I assume it will be picking up a signal even after telling toyota to knock it off.
     
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  19. Oct 17, 2021 at 2:49 PM
    #229
    Dan_B

    Dan_B New Member

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    Well as has been stated, the internet car hack is here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs

    And obviously real and this video is from 2015. Seems removing the SIM or eSIM is the answer, but that only answers the immediate on-road threat. Then how do we dump the data stored on the car's computers? Guess that can be solved after the internet concerns.

    What we need is a Toyota tech to help out - gotta be one out there.

    BTW great conversation. Lots of great information here. Thanks for your work.

    Dan
     
  20. Oct 17, 2021 at 7:18 PM
    #230
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    This is about a lot more than tracking. It's about bad actors hijacking your car. That includes taking control of your ignition, brakes, door locks, and in many cars your steering. Also the ability for them to listen to conversations inside the car.

    Bummer indeed. Seems that, like any cell phone, the Data Communications Module can send information and receive instructions (see above) even without an external antenna.

    I know I did. I've opted out of everything. But if Toyota can turn it back on at your request, which they certainly can, then they can turn it back on at their own behest. Or at a government request. Or without their consent or even knowledge, via hacking.

    Yes, proof of concept here. But we also have real-life examples of this happening. Even computers that are highly protected because of their importance to national security or infrastructure get hacked. Medical records get hacked. Of course the car companies can get hacked too.

    Edit: Regarding data stored by the truck's computer: I don't know for sure but don't think the 4Runner stores a ton of significant info. Especially if you connect your phone via CarPlay instead of the truck's bluetooth. Regardless, there is an option in the infotaintment system to delete all personal data. I assume this does what it says. The big issue is the internet connection. If the truck isn't connected to the internet then no one can get this data anyway without physical access to your car, to plug a computer into it. That's a hell of a lot less likely than someone accessing this data over the internet -- something that can be done from anywhere in the world and without warning and probably without even your knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  21. Oct 17, 2021 at 8:09 PM
    #231
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    You could try enclosing the DCM connectors with metal tape (copper or aluminum), or aluminum foil. Each end of each connector.
     
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  22. Oct 17, 2021 at 9:46 PM
    #232
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    ok, yeah I looked and saw DCM had full bars even though my overhead lights are off, and I opted out with toyota.

    Question for anyone more knowledgeable…. What if I pulled the head unit and replaced it with aftermarket? Does the DCM thing reside in the headunit?
     
  23. Oct 18, 2021 at 4:52 AM
    #233
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    Yessir, the app lets you opt-out of all data collection if you want (same as if you called to opt-out). I opted out at first, but when I started fiddling with the DCM antennas I wanted to see if it was working, so I opted back in to the general data collection to monitor whether or not data is being transmitted. Did opt back in for other sub-categories like the wifi hotspot, insurance thing, maintenance reminders, etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  24. Oct 18, 2021 at 5:14 AM
    #234
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    I had a heck of a time reaching into that small space to unplug the antennas, not sure how to cover the connectors without tearing even more of the dashboard apart. I'll probably end up giving it a try sometime though, just not in the near future. Thanks for the suggestion!
     
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  25. Oct 18, 2021 at 7:19 AM
    #235
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Insurance thing? What’s that?
     
  26. Oct 21, 2021 at 10:39 AM
    #236
    Dan_B

    Dan_B New Member

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  27. Oct 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM
    #237
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    In principle, programming the truck’s computer to deactivate the DCM might work and be an elegant solution (no pulling apart the dash, disconnecting things that might cause error messages etc).

    I’d just note that we’d need to really understand whether the changes possible in the computer would actually prevent the reception of commands from Toyota (or hackers who’ve gained access to Toyota’s Connected Services system). I can imagine it being possible to instruct the DCM not to transmit the data it usually transmits, but not possible to prevent it from receiving instructions. We just don’t know how many settings are changeable with something like Techstream.

    I still think the ideal solution would be to physically disable the SIM card while leaving all else as is. In that scenario the system would prob just think it’s in a dead zone with no cell service.
     
  28. Oct 21, 2021 at 11:08 AM
    #238
    Dan_B

    Dan_B New Member

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    I don't disagree, we just need to know how to do that without ripping the dash out
     
  29. Oct 21, 2021 at 11:21 AM
    #239
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    Sorry, didn't see your message until now. It's this...

    Screenshot_20211021-142010.jpg
     
  30. Oct 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM
    #240
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    that’s lovely. Save a dollar for safe driving, then jack your premiums 50percent for avoiding an accident, they get to decide what safe is. That game is rigged!
     
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