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Death caused by hitch ball recovery attempt

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by GLS, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. Aug 30, 2022 at 5:06 AM
    #91
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    You're welcome!

    Looks like a good article.

    And, the 3-4 pull thing supports my theory of not believing everything you read here...

    A few pages back, we had somebody calling another member's choice of equipment garbage, while also mentioning that they still have a "beat to shit, old, OG yankum." Obviously, if it's old and beat to shit, it should have probably been retired sooner.
     
  2. Aug 30, 2022 at 5:30 AM
    #92
    grousetter

    grousetter New Member

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    Reality is there are a lot of ragged, dirty, frayed and old recovery straps in peoples 4x4’s.
    Hopefully this discussion enlightens someone to make safer decisions on the trails.
     
  3. Aug 30, 2022 at 5:46 AM
    #93
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Yes! Every time these topics come up, it's a good reminder to keep your equipment in good shape, and replace worn out gear.

    It's also going to make me think of a kinetic recovery as a last resort, as I don't want to wear out my strap unless it's really necessary. Regular tow straps are dirt cheap, by comparison.
     
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  4. Aug 30, 2022 at 8:05 PM
    #94
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    I would say that’s actually NOT the correct way to look at this. In this case, it was the use of a tow strap (with very little stretch) that killed somebody. Tow straps will not break if it’s used to yank someone who is stuck, instead it breaks the hardware that it’s attached to (for example, an entire hitch assembly in this case, but just as easily could be a factory recovery point along with the shackle, or a small part of a hitch). 5 to 15 pounds of steel can easily be launched at high speed towards somebody if a tow strap is used to snatch somebody out of a stuck situation.

    I think the lesson is use the correct type of recovery equipment for the situation, AND use that equipment in the correct way. All types of recovery equipment are extremely dangerous when used incorrectly, and it usually happens in the blink of an eye.
     
  5. Aug 30, 2022 at 8:16 PM
    #95
    Henry J

    Henry J Crap…crap crap crap crap…crap

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    Screw it, everybody go get a winch!
     
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  6. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:57 AM
    #96
    MAXIM

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    Winch helps but you still have same problem if basic safety is ignored. Drop down or any tow ball is not a recovery point. Same goes for hitch pin.
     
  7. Aug 31, 2022 at 10:03 AM
    #97
    Lou

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    OK, I've tried to wade through the entire thread, but I was losing patience. Here's what I'd like to know:

    I don't do off roading. If I had the need to do any kind of recovery, it would be to get a car out of a snowy ditch. What would be the best things to have on hand for that purpose?
     
  8. Aug 31, 2022 at 11:33 AM
    #98
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Firstly, knowledge. That wasn’t meant sarcastically. A big theme I’m pulling from reading this thread and watching videos is that a lack of knowledge, and a lack of understanding of the physics involved can kill you.

    Lack of knowledge will lead to:
    -mistakes in deciding if/ how you attempt the recovery
    -mistakes in the kind of equipment selected for the recovery
    -incorrect use of equipment (even if the right equipment is being used).

    Because of the extreme physical forces involved in any recovery, these mistakes can lead to catastrophic failures very quickly.

    So I’d honestly recommend devoting some time to study the subject if you ever plan on recovering anyone from a ditch, or before you allow anyone to pull you out of a ditch.

    Pulling somebody out from a snowy ditch is not really different from an “off road” recovery situation.

    I heard a saying the other day that fits this topic perfectly: “Novice-level difficulty, expert-level consequences”

    I’d recommend a shovel and traction boards, but I would avoid anything else until you feel you have the appropriate level of knowledge on which to base your judgement.
     
  9. Aug 31, 2022 at 12:19 PM
    #99
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Honestly, if you are not off roading and slip off the roadway, I would just call a tow service. Most insurance companies offer additional tow coverage for very little.

    The people on the forum that go out into the wild need to fend for themselves. I try to avoid the situation to begin with. If I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I would get a small shovel and traction boards or whatever they’re called.
     
  10. Aug 31, 2022 at 12:26 PM
    #100
    grousetter

    grousetter New Member

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    I commuted 40 miles on I-94 for years... If someone slid off in the snow from what I've seen it's likely someone else will wipe out and mow you and your vehicle down also.
    In that situation I'd say the best tool is a cell phone to call a wrecker and maybe a Snickers bar while you're waiting.
     
  11. Aug 31, 2022 at 1:11 PM
    #101
    Lou

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    Maybe I should clarify.

    I don't live in the part of the country where I'm going to be commuting on major highways during a blizzard. I'm talking about 10 miles round trip on rural and small town 2 lanes. Because I'm in an area that does not get a lot of snow, our municipalities are also not equipped well for those situations. With essential workers in the family, the drive is still required. A couple years ago, one of our cars slid off the road. There were no tow trucks available for non-emergencies for more than 2 days. After a day, we called a friend with a 4 wheel drive truck to help us out. That is one of the reasons we went with the 4Runner. I carry traction mats and a shovel when winter weather is in the forecast.

    If I get in a similar situation, I'd just like to be prepared. I'm looking for the knowledge to do it the right way or to recognize someone trying to do it the wrong way. That's why I asked.
     
  12. Aug 31, 2022 at 1:58 PM
    #102
    Altitude4x4

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    Kinetic ropes and recovery/tow straps should be used for their respective purposes.

    Kinetic ropes store energy briefly and should be used when a vehicle is stuck in a rut, the mud or high centered on a rock as the force loaded on the rope will be more controlled resulting in a smooth recovery.

    Tow straps shouldn't be used for any of that above, I rarely use or recommend a tow strap to be used unless a static line is needed. Examples include: winch extensions, bridles, moving trees/rocks.

    In summary, tow straps are rough on vehicles, unpredictable and many of them aren't load tested. Kinetic ropes are gentle, predictable and most are reputably tested.

    Every serious off-road enthusiast should have a kinetic rope in their recovery bag, they're just awesome pieces of kit.
     
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  13. Aug 31, 2022 at 2:32 PM
    #103
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I would think a tow strap and a regular tow recovery would be safer if someone was stuck in rocks. It seems that a kinetic recovery would be more likely to cause damage. :notsure:
     
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  14. Aug 31, 2022 at 2:35 PM
    #104
    GLS

    GLS [OP] New Member

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    Experienced Aussie off roaders Ronnie Dahl and MadMatt discuss hitch ball recoveries. Dahl discusses and demonstrates the futility of dampening steel cables with blankets, coats, etc. when they snap underload. None of these happenings occur in slow motion. In recent years, Dahl recounts 5 deaths from hitch ball recovery attempts. MadMatt's questioning of the other Matt (Matt's Off Road Recovery fame) was two years ago. While his ball hitch may be welded, how many folks have been mistakenly misled by his example thinking their hitch would be safe to use??


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFD4Fd03bq8&t=509s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcv2wy5RKeI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97XqNX3yFTk&t=471s
     
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  15. Aug 31, 2022 at 2:47 PM
    #105
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    The safest thing in this situation would be to use a tow strap and do a "tow recovery". In this case, the recovery vehicle would very slowly take the slack out of the strap and then very slowly pull the stuck vehicle out of the ditch. This requires that the recovery vehicle has enough traction to pull the stuck vehicle out, though.

    The important thing to remember is to not use a tow strap to tug, or perform a kinetic recovery in which the recovery vehicle uses momentum to move the stuck vehicle.

    If the recovery vehicle does not have enough traction to perform a tow recovery, then a snatch strap or kinetic rope should be used, and a kinetic recovery can be attempted.

    Again, I would highly recommend watching a handful of videos, and / or reading some articles about snow recovery. Always err to the side of caution in these situations.

    You mentioned that you carry a shovel and traction mats already. I would add a high quality tow rope, a kinetic rope or strap, and some soft and hard shackles. Having a few extra shackles and short straps can help give you more options on how to hook up to the vehicle.

    And, As much as I like helping people out, I won't attempt a recovery if it looks like damage is likely to occur. Sometimes, you're better off just leaving the car and letting a professional deal with it.
     
  16. Aug 31, 2022 at 2:50 PM
    #106
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    From my experience, it's safer to use a kinetic rope. Static straps are just too jarring.
     
  17. Aug 31, 2022 at 3:06 PM
    #107
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Obviously, a tow strap should never be used in a kinetic recovery.

    I'm talking about a tow recovery. A tow recovery is going to be safer than a kinetic recovery in that situation. I would think the sudden movement from a kinetic recovery could cause damage. In a tow recovery, you can control the speed.
     
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  18. Aug 31, 2022 at 4:11 PM
    #108
    grousetter

    grousetter New Member

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    Thanks for the response, Altitude 4x4 and all.

    I need to understand differences between:

    1 Kinetic Rope
    2 Recovery Strap
    3 Snatch Strap and
    4 Tow Strap
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  19. Aug 31, 2022 at 5:19 PM
    #109
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    You do you man, I've used a kinetic rope for most of my recoveries and it worked as expected. With kinetic ropes there are no sudden movements, all facets of the recovery are smooth and controlled.
     
  20. Aug 31, 2022 at 5:33 PM
    #110
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    1 - nylon rope with spliced loops on each end that stretches ~30% and is used to perform recoveries of a immobilized vehicle.

    2 - synonymous for a tow strap

    3 - similar to a kinetic rope but flat instead of round, less durable, lower weight capacity and few length options. They are lighter and rumored to pull softer than their rope counterpart though.

    4 - static nylon strap, can be used for a multitude of things where stretch isn't desired.
     
  21. Aug 31, 2022 at 5:49 PM
    #111
    Thatbassguy

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    If you are performing a kinetic recovery, there is always sudden movement. That is how they work. The recovery vehicle gets some momentum, the rope stretches, then the energy transfers to the stuck vehicle. If you're using a kinetic strap or rope for a tow recovery, you're doing it wrong.

    I would never encourage anyone to attempt a kinetic recovery if they were stuck in rocks. The sudden movement could easily cause damage.

    A tow recovery is going to be more controlled, and safer in that situation. But, it requires that the recovery vehicle has enough traction to move the stuck vehicle.

    A winch is probably the best option, though, if you're stuck in rocks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  22. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:07 PM
    #112
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    There is movement obviously, but it's predictable not sudden. A tow recovery may be slightly more controlled but requires more throttle to produce results, thus negating that edge in control. Winch is always a possibility but I've found the rope works great in most situations I've been put in.
     
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  23. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:10 PM
    #113
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I have performed several tow recoveries, and none have required much throttle at all.

    If you're performing a tow recovery, the key is maintaining traction, and going slow. So, it is in fact more controlled than a kinetic recovery.

    Based on one of the videos I watched earlier on this topic, I'm thinking of a kinetic recovery as a last resort from here on out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  24. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:30 PM
    #114
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    We'll have to agree to disagree, I've witnessed a lot of destruction with static line recoveries (winchless) and the contrary with kinetic pulls.
     
  25. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:37 PM
    #115
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Did this destruction occur while they were being used properly? Any pictures? Are there any threads here about it?

    Watch the video in post number 81 in this thread. Fast forward to 14 minutes, 15 seconds if you want to see the host's explanation of the hierarchy of recovery. It makes a lot of sense to me.

    Edit:. Link so you don't have to track it down:

    https://youtu.be/2rHvQykNt2M
     
  26. Aug 31, 2022 at 6:58 PM
    #116
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    The "recovery strap" term means different things to different people. I wouldn't use that term at all, to avoid confusion.

    "Kinetic ropes" are stretchy, for kinetic recoveries.

    "Snatch strap" is just another term for "kinetic strap". They stretch for kinetic recoveries, as well.

    Ropes are around, and straps are flat.

    A "tow strap" doesn't stretch, and should never be used for a kinetic recovery. A tow strap can be used for towing recoveries, towing, extending a winch line, or wrapping around a tree to attach a winch.
     
  27. Aug 31, 2022 at 7:14 PM
    #117
    grousetter

    grousetter New Member

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    If what I called recovery strap stretches 20%
    Is it more appropriately called a snatch strap then?
     
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  28. Aug 31, 2022 at 7:29 PM
    #118
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Stretchy = Kinetic.

    Snatch strap is what ARB calls their kinetic straps. It's like saying Band-aid or Kleenex.

    Kinetic strap is the term you want.

    I say to avoid the term "recovery strap" because I've heard it used to refer to a tow strap, and also a kinetic strap, which you never want to confuse. :D
     

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