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Best way to lift or level kdss system??

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by trail16whitebeast, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Jan 5, 2017 at 4:19 PM
    #1
    trail16whitebeast

    trail16whitebeast [OP] New Member

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    just wheels and tires right now...
    Wanting to lift or level my 4runner...have the kdss system and keeping hearing negative responses from Toyota or techs. Say it could harm the system if not done correctly. Just need some input or ideas!! thanks
     
  2. Jan 5, 2017 at 4:46 PM
    #2
    JerryM

    JerryM New Member

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    You can do it yourself if you understand that you need to strap up the coils before you lift it up off the ground. It's simple take a ratchet strap and go over the top of the coil for the KDSS and under it and tighten down. Then you do your lift install like any other. You just don't want to let it hang while you are dropping everything else. Take your time and maybe other people will chime in with other ways to do it. Lots of us here have done the lift and i have not heard any problems with doing it. I absolutely love my set up and us it . Good luck and post pics. when you get it done.

    IMG_0766.jpg
    IMG_1320.jpg
     
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  3. Jan 5, 2017 at 4:51 PM
    #3
    trail16whitebeast

    trail16whitebeast [OP] New Member

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    Well not planning on doing it myself. What kit and how high did you go? Some Toyota guys are telling me the issue is when you disconnect the system air could get into it and potentially harm it....your saying you don't disconnect anything??
     
  4. Jan 5, 2017 at 4:58 PM
    #4
    JerryM

    JerryM New Member

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    Do not disconnect the system trap it in place. The local Toyota dealers here in San Diego tried to tell me the same. I had it done to mine but help another guy here do it and it was crazy easy. I have the Bilstien 6112 set at the top notch giving around 2.75" - 3" and in the rear 5100's. I'm running 285/70/17's and have almost no rubbing. Once in a blue moon i turn just right and it rubs ever so much.
     
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  5. Jan 5, 2017 at 5:07 PM
    #5
    trail16whitebeast

    trail16whitebeast [OP] New Member

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    just wheels and tires right now...
    Again, I was told the kdss is tied into the springs and shouldn't touch that because I was looking into those bilstien shocks instead of a regular spacer kit or body lift. How high is the rear? Did it change the ride at all?
     
  6. Jan 5, 2017 at 5:23 PM
    #6
    JerryM

    JerryM New Member

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    Take a look at the sway bar you can see where it attaches . Undo the bolts at the sway bar link leaving the KDSS coil strapped and you'll fine the lower control arm drops down and you will slide the new set up in . Sounds easy but not by yourself. The ride is amazing . The rear has 3" lift. If your going to do any kind of off roading stay away from the spacer lifts you will just end up replacing it anyways. You spent a lot already on a incredible capable rig spend a few more dollars and get a better lift. Good luck
     
  7. Jan 5, 2017 at 9:57 PM
    #7
    jameygraham

    jameygraham New Member

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  8. Jun 11, 2017 at 9:12 PM
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    sage1

    sage1 New Member

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    I haven't worked on a 4Runner with KDSS but thought it would be the same as the Landcruiser... When installing new shocks/springs or installing front spacers on the LC the KDSS regulator valves are opened 3 turns allowing the front suspension to drop and both sides of the system equalize. This is done with the rig on a a lift. After everything is reassembled the vehicle is put back on the ground (jostled side to side and front to back)and the vehicle is allowed to sit for an hour to resettle and adjust to the new angles. Then the KDSS regulator valves are closed. Wondering why the same procedure wouldn't work on the 4Runner.
     
  9. Dec 23, 2019 at 8:47 AM
    #9
    DragonRunner

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    Does anyone else have a comment on this? I’ve seen the strap-it-in-place-before-jacking method spoken of often enough, but if the above is the proper technique (especially to reset angles post lift) I’d love to know. Planned to do a 6112 on KDSS myself over Christmas. Is it in the service manual when, say, replacing a shock?
     
  10. Dec 23, 2019 at 9:43 AM
    #10
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I would NOT open the system. But, I could be wrong here.

    I believe @4X4Runner has lifted a few 4runners with KDSS. Hopefully he can shed some light on this.
     
  11. Dec 23, 2019 at 10:21 AM
    #11
    4x Old Guy

    4x Old Guy New Member

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    Just some thoughts to consider. After watching several “how it works” videos (including one for adjusting an acquired lean with the KDSS suspension using a wrench an a couple of 2x4s), and without having actually crawled under my rig and traced the KDSS hydraulic lines, it seems that the KDSS hydraulics only supports the two sway bar cylinders (front left and rear right) which are completely independent from the shocks. The only “opening up” of the KDSS system seems to be some kind of override valve on the KDSS “controller” which allows the fluid to flow freely between the KDSS cylinders so they can equalize (or be compressed and extended manually?). Hope this helps a little.
     
  12. Dec 23, 2019 at 11:08 AM
    #12
    Dillusion

    Dillusion New Member

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    Don't open anything involved with the KDSS you don't need to and you are only asking for pain.

    The KDSS attaches to the sway bar. Just strap it up when you disconnect.
     
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  13. Dec 23, 2019 at 12:30 PM
    #13
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner The Anti Pro, Pro! Staff Member

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    Please read the calibration info from Toyota. The valves should not be backed out more than necessary. The top of the valve should be backed out no more than 10-12mm from the surface. If backed out too far then the system is compromised and it will need to be taken back to Toyota for service as I don’t believe any of us have the tools or expertise to completely purge the system of air.
     
  14. Dec 23, 2019 at 12:35 PM
    #14
    4X4Runner

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    I have. First time I ratchet strapped the KDSS cylinders in place and the 2nd I didn’t do anything except pull the UCA’s to get the coil overs in.

    I didn’t need to do the calibration as my height difference between the drivers side and passenger side was <1/2”
     
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  15. Dec 23, 2019 at 12:38 PM
    #15
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner The Anti Pro, Pro! Staff Member

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    Don’t listen to them. I’ve lifted two KDSS equipped 4R’s with no negative results. First one went 80k miles before I traded it in and my current one is at 50k
     
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  16. Dec 23, 2019 at 12:52 PM
    #16
    DragonRunner

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    So, I don’t have to disconnect the sway bar / ratchet it in-place compressed if I disconnect the UCAs? You don’t mean the LCAs right? You removed the UCA and it worked as a better technique? I’m wanting to do this alone at home and have been reading and reading to get a good install thread / tips / tools required foundation...
     
  17. Dec 23, 2019 at 12:56 PM
    #17
    4X4Runner

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    First time I didn’t disconnect anything and ratchet strapped the KDSS cylinders in place. I did the whole suspension swap (including disassembly of OE coils and reassembly of OME could) in about 9 hours start to finish. I used the bottle jack to press the LCA enough to get the new assembly in place.

    for the rear, I also used the jack to create enough articulation to get the new spring in place.

    second install I removed the bolt from the UCA and let it drop down so I could maneuver the coil into place. I never disconnected the sway bar or ratchet strapped the cylinder. Having the calibration information, if need be I was ready to perform it if the height difference between sides was out of spec.
     
  18. Dec 23, 2019 at 1:03 PM
    #18
    4X4Runner

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    My recommendation is to do the front at once then move to the rear. Put the vehicle on jack stands up front, chick the rear wheels. Pull the wheels and you can either remove the bolt for the UCA or disconnect it at the ball joint (probably easier) so the LCA has the drop necessary to get the lower shock mount into place. Since there’s no load on the front suspension it should be relatively easy.

    Rear is another story and may require spring compressors to get into place and that’s a challenge in itself.

    Choco front wheels and raise the back end up onto jack stands. Pull wheels and let axle down so it’s not loaded. Disconnect shocks and position jack to press one side down enough to remove the OE spring and muscle new on into place. Repeat on the other side then install new shocks.

    just remember, you’ll need to hold the shock body in place as you tighten the nut on top. There should be enough room to squeeze a open end wrench onto the shock to hold it in place as you tighten the top nut
     
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  19. Dec 23, 2019 at 1:10 PM
    #19
    DragonRunner

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  20. Jan 14, 2020 at 2:37 PM
    #20
    AccuTune Offroad

    AccuTune Offroad New Member

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    We've been finishing up a video that talks about KDSS equipped 4Runners. May be a little helpful. Just don't lift the 4runner too tall and you will be fine.
    https://youtu.be/ROJ3V1yfqLQ
     
  21. Jan 14, 2020 at 3:28 PM
    #21
    nimby

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    That was very informative. Thanks for posting!

    I wonder why Toyota claims more articulation with KDSS?
     
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  22. Jan 14, 2020 at 3:50 PM
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    AccuTune Offroad

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    Thanks. I think a walk around video really helps put everything in perspective, especially up on the lift.
     
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  23. Jan 14, 2020 at 4:46 PM
    #23
    Thatbassguy

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    Because the hydraulic cylinders that attach the sway bars to the frame allow the suspension to flex without fighting the sway bars. That's why it's so brilliant. More resistance to body roll in daily driving, more flex on the trails.

    This is just a simplified explanation. I'm sure someone else can explain better.
     
  24. Jan 15, 2020 at 6:55 AM
    #24
    nimby

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    Let me explain where I'm coming from on this one.

    The video said that the limiting factor of a KDSS 4Runners suspension is the fixed point of the KDSS system located on the passenger side both front and rear. That would imply that the KDSS is actually limiting articulation, at least on the passenger side.

    But maybe it's only limiting articulation with an aftermarket extended travel suspension set-up??

    With that being said, it still makes me wonder how it can offer any benefit in articulation over a non KDSS 4Runner, like Toyota claims.
     
  25. Jan 15, 2020 at 8:49 AM
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    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Non KDSS 4runners have fixed mounting points on BOTH sides of the sway bar. Therefore, you're always fighting the sway bar when you're flexing the suspension side to side.

    With KDSS, one side of the sway bar is allowed to flex without fighting the sway bar. This enables better articulation.

    Any sway bar will limit your articulation eventually.

    Anyone who plans on doing long travel, or a hard core rock crawler build, would probably remove the sway bars anyway.
     
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  26. Jan 15, 2020 at 8:52 AM
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    Thatbassguy

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    By this reasoning, non-KDSS vehicles are limiting articulation on BOTH sides.

    Sorry for Quoting twice. I should have pointed this out in the previous post.
     
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  27. Jan 15, 2020 at 10:50 AM
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    nimby

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    Good explanation. That makes sense now. Thanks.
     
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  28. Jan 17, 2020 at 2:15 PM
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    4x Old Guy

    4x Old Guy New Member

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    KDSS isn’t going to let you tag along with purpose built crawlers, but it does make holes on one tire track or the other pretty much invisible and allows better tire contact in rough terrain.

    Since the fixed anchor (pivot) point is still a foot and a half or so inboard of the wheel, there is some additional travel at that wheel as well. Couple that with the fact that the pistons are on diagonal corners (front driver side and rear passenger side), that provides the maximum articulation overall (not to be confused with travel).
     
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  29. Jan 17, 2020 at 2:41 PM
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    AccuTune Offroad

    AccuTune Offroad New Member

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    Hydraulic rams in the KDSS system are on the same side.
    [​IMG]
     
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  30. Jan 17, 2020 at 3:42 PM
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    4x Old Guy

    4x Old Guy New Member

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    My bad. Somehow they’re crosslinked then, so the articulation is increased when wheels on diagonal corners are stressed and roll is reduced when wheels on the same side are stressed. All I know is that it works phenomenally.
     
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