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ANY THOUGHTS? 5th Gen Stalled Multiple Times in Traffic

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by pc01619, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. Jan 17, 2023 at 8:41 AM
    #1
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    Hello All,

    Very confused here and will try to keep it brief enough. Over the last several weeks, I've had my 2018 TRD Off Road Premium stall either at an idle in traffic (at a stop light or stop and go traffic). The first two instances were within minutes of each other. At the stop light and then about 50 feet ahead as I was turning into a parking lot for safety. Each time, I was able to restart the vehicle and no lights came on the dash. Took it immediately to the Toyota dealership and they couldn't even pull a code. Nothing was stored in the history so the diagnostic showed nothing. Within three days, roughly 100 miles driven, it stalled for the 3rd time on me as I was turning right on red into an intersection, after a stop. My OBD2 scanner showed a P1603 code. I was able to coast to safety and restart the vehicle. I took it again to the dealership and they could not pull the code or replicate the issue. This time they performed the full computer and visual diagnostic and drove it themselves for about a week and could not get the truck the stall again. I took it back and I swear within 20 miles it stalled on me again - the 4th instance. This time the engine would not restart. Had it towed to the dealer, and once again, no codes other than P1603. They did tell me they had trouble restarting the vehicle when I dropped it off but got it started again after some trouble. Had them drive it around another week and could not replicate the issue.

    During all this, 4 Toyota master mechanics have tried to diagnose the vehicle and each can't trace the issue to a single OEM part, the fuel or air system.

    However, they can't prove it through a multimeter or parasitic draw tests, but claimed it might be my aftermarket lighting. I have raptor lights installed and connected to the fuse box under my e-brake pedal and Aiden James Customs fog light bezel lights installed up front, connected to the fuse box under the hood. I have LED pods on my hood as well connected to a switch on my dash. Each was installed as directed by the manufacturer. I've had these installed for over a year each and never had problems. They disconnected the bezel lights and pods from the battery and said to drive around and report back.

    I have 81k miles and an extended warranty. Toyota corporate was no help. This is a safety concern and the dealership gave up and I clench everytime I am idling at a stop light. There seems to be little to no info online about this.
     
  2. Jan 17, 2023 at 8:46 AM
    #2
    ChessGuy

    ChessGuy New Member

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    Too many..... Performance: • Magnusum Supercharger • Gibson exhaust with dual black tip • Pedal Commander • Suspension – Old Man Emu BP-51 front and back with Medium load coils • Tires: AT3 Faulken Wildpeak – 285/70/17 • Wheels: Relations Race Wheels, RR7-H with -12 offset • Full roof rack and ladder by Westcott Design (removed the stock Yakima basket) • Molle storage panels by Rago fabrication • Front light brackets by Rago • Illuminator light bracket by Rago (roof rack location) Lights • Morimoto front and back with sequential signals • Morimoto fog lights and side mirrors with sequential signals • 40” Baja design light bar for roof rack • 20” S8 Baja design driving combo (winch location) • Squadron sport baja design ditch lights • S2 Chase lights by baja designs (mounted on roof) In the bay: • Odyssey 34-PC Battery • SDQH Aluminum billet battery terminals and bracket • Switch Pro 9100 with aluminum tray • Anytime front and back camera • ARB twin compressor Recovery & Protection: • Smittybilt X20 synthetic rope winch • Factor 55 fairlead and flatlink • Southern Style Off-road (SSO) low profile bumper • SSO stage 2 high clearance wings • Weekend warrior recovery kit by treaty oak • RCI – skid plates – entire vehicle + catalytic converter protection wings Interior: • Nano Ceramic IR – Avery Dennison Window tint – all windows • Several phone mounts • Upgraded Rear Hatch lift gate struts (ladder is heavy) • Boom blaster horn switch (featuring La cucaracha)
    I am sorry to hear all of this and I am sure it is nerve racking not knowing if your vehicle would go or not.

    It is very hard to try but I would pull the gas pump and see if there is an issue there. There was a recall on some the fuel pumps for some models, I don't recall if the manufacturer was denso..or densi..sp? But this is what I would try.

    Good luck.
     
    pc01619[OP] likes this.
  3. Jan 17, 2023 at 8:50 AM
    #3
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks @ChessGuy - definitely nerve-racking and I forgot if I even had smooth idles before this. I'm taking it day by day and hopefully it was just a fluke. They did check for the fuel pump recall but nothing came up flagged.
     
  4. Jan 17, 2023 at 8:51 AM
    #4
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Fuel delivery or ignition issue.
     
  5. Jan 17, 2023 at 9:14 AM
    #5
    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 New Member

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    Did you get the fuel pump recall completed?
     
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  6. Jan 17, 2023 at 9:16 AM
    #6
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    @whippersnapper02 Yes sir - according to the dealership and toyota corporate, my vehicle has been cleared of this.
     
  7. Jan 17, 2023 at 9:25 AM
    #7
    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 New Member

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    Ok some people have had issues because of the work when nothing was wrong before.
     
  8. Jan 17, 2023 at 9:41 AM
    #8
    Daddykool

    Daddykool Photography enthusiast

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    I would disconnect all aftermarket electrics. Put your OEM headlights back in if you have them.
     
  9. Jan 17, 2023 at 9:48 AM
    #9
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Sucks not knowing. It’s made harder because I bet a lot of the “diagnostic motivation” when you take it to a dealer under warranty is determining if it’s a problem covered under warranty, and less so on finding out the actual problem.

    That said, do not discount their aftermarket light theory! Raptor lights are notorious for poor crackerjack box quality, and installing them according to manufacturers instructions doesn’t guarantee it wont cause problems. For example, I’ve seen mentions of some lighting products tapping into the fuel injector fuses for switch power. That will work fine…until it doesn’t. And when it doesn't, all sorts of wild shenanigans will ensue, directly affecting the engine’s operation. That’s a fairly obvious questionable source for switch power, so I’m not sure why any aftermarket lighting instructions would say to use this…but they do. Even other switch sources are suspect, since it’s hard to know what other systems might be tied into any particular fuse.

    Check your battery state as well, since that might mess with things too.

    It’s good that you disconnected the lights, better yet if you disconnected at the battery and returned the fuseboxes to their original state. Hopefully it doesn't happen again.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2023 at 10:17 AM
    #10
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for this reply and same with @Daddykool! As much as I don't want to believe it, the more I research this and per your reply, I'm starting to see how it could be either the Aiden James Custom lights or the Raptor lights. It bruised my ego because I see nearly 10 (not really but it feels like it) a day with this lighting set up and was thinking it should be a more common google search if this is the case.

    The lights have all been disconnected at the battery thus far but I will be returning the fuse boxes to their old state this week. I'd rather have peace of mind knowing I'm safe on the road than that I don't have the "super cool look" i was going for with the lighting. I think another annoying part is the aiden james custom product was like $250 and a total splurge purchase.

    2014+ 4Runner LED DRL Fog Light Bezel Kit – Aiden James Customs
     
  11. Jan 17, 2023 at 11:49 AM
    #11
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Manufacturers of aftermarket electrical products should be required to put warning labels on their packaging stating that installations could be hazardous to your vehicles health, much like tobacco products.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
    pc01619[OP] likes this.
  12. Jan 17, 2023 at 3:16 PM
    #12
    Foothills

    Foothills New Member

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    First thing I would try would be a new battery.
     
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  13. Jan 17, 2023 at 4:38 PM
    #13
    Tooly

    Tooly New Member

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    Sounds like similar symptoms I had when the crank position sensor on my VW was on its way out. If the lights don't end up being your issue could be something to look at.
     
  14. Jan 17, 2023 at 4:41 PM
    #14
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    It’s all part of the modding game. Nothing wrong with getting aftermarket lights, but it helps to when you know the kinds of problems that might come up, particularly with electrical connection schemes. Learning these things is made much easier with forums like these, but direct experience sometimes is what teaches us. Oh well, plenty of things that I’ve been confident with, only to learn I was wrong.

    For any type of electrical mods It’s best to use relays that are switched to the most harmless looking fuse possible. Running accessories unswitched direct to battery isolates them completely from possibly affecting the 4runner systemst. But that’s not an option for me since I would definitely be the guy to leave things on and drain the battery.

    I’ve got one fuse tap in the inside fusebox (above dead pedal) that is used to switch my spot lights, and my GMRS radio installation. i think I used the 12v outlet fuse slot. For the spot lights, I ran a switch wire from there through the firewall, into the a relay mounted in the engine bay. If there is a problem, I disconnect the accessories from the battery, and replace only one fusetap with original fuse. It’s easy to get back to stock.

    Here’s hoping the lights are your problem…it’s the cheaper of the options. And you can focus on how they are causing the problem with aiden james or with whatever chinese megafactory makes the raptor lights lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  15. Jan 17, 2023 at 5:41 PM
    #15
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding Explorer

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    Same issue for me with a BMW. Kept stalling, when pulling away from a drop. Had the crank position sensor replaced 3 times and finally ended up trading in.
     
  16. Jan 18, 2023 at 7:41 AM
    #16
    Sandbuster

    Sandbuster Breaking Wind

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    When the engine cuts off is it "instantaneously" as turning off the ignition or does it sputter then quit? Knowing the answer to this may help in determining the causal source of your issue. Relays were mentioned above - not a bad idea.

    This is a relay that I use not only on my 4runner solar setup but also on my house solar system: https://www.evwest.com/catalog/prod...d=407&osCsid=f182e37a48a101d479fb7aa399e732ec

    This 12 volt relay tolerates 500 continuous amps and momentary 3000 amps. You can run all your electrical add-ons through this device and control it with a simple toggle switch using key-on power supplied to the toggle (which means you can just leave it on an forget it unless something comes up (such as what you're currently experiencing) then you can just shut it off.
     
  17. Jan 18, 2023 at 10:26 AM
    #17
    beedee

    beedee SR5 Peon

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    Same here, but with my 2011 Pro-4x Nissan Xterra.
     
  18. Jan 18, 2023 at 12:56 PM
    #18
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Stalling at idle or slow speed sounds like fuel starvation.
     
  19. Jan 18, 2023 at 12:58 PM
    #19
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    I'll have to do some research on that and thanks for the suggestion, sir!

    Each time, the engine has sputter for a quick second or two and then shut off.

    Also worth mentioning, the battery has been replaced within the last 5 months and received a good health report.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  20. Jan 18, 2023 at 1:01 PM
    #20
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    All of my searches initially definitely pointed to fuel delivery or air system issues but the diagnostics that the mechs performed stated that the fuel system operated normally, no misfires and fuel pressure maintained.
     
  21. Jan 18, 2023 at 1:22 PM
    #21
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    That’s the infuriating thing about intermittent problems. When you get it into the dealer and under test everything is working properly and the test equipment shows everything is within spec. Unless the failure persists and you have it instrumented at that time you’ll never catch it.

    You can keep on driving it until it’s a hard failure, or until it gets worse so you can recreate it on demand for a mechanic. Or take some educated guesses and start replacing parts.
    Keep us posted with your progress.
     
    pc01619[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  22. Jan 18, 2023 at 1:44 PM
    #22
    Sandbuster

    Sandbuster Breaking Wind

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    As a Ford drive-ability tech for over 25 years intermittent faults were the worse to deal with - for me and the customer. There's just so many things that can cause such faults. Here's a couple of things you can try if you haven't already done so. First, take a good look at your wiring under the hood particularly around the injector harness - rodents love our wiring and there are plenty of posts that will validate that. Next, with engine idling and in park do a wiggle check on every harness that leads to your engine. Same thing with the harness that goes to your fuel tank/pump. Wiggle everything to see if you can re-create the issue. It could be something stupid like a Throttle Position Sensor that has a momentary open circuit or as others have stated a Crank Position Sensor. I don't recall how to check the CPS but the TPS can be checked by a graphing multimeter - if there's a fault it will typically show up on the graph - kinda like a burp on an oscilloscope.
     
    Daddykool, pc01619[OP] and ElectroBoy like this.
  23. Jan 19, 2023 at 6:15 AM
    #23
    Motopato

    Motopato New Member

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    For lights and other electrical equipment installation (I have 2 led bars and 2 ditch lights) I use a Rough Country MLC-6 for a Jeep Wrangler light controller, which I adapted for use on the 4runner. This way, connections to the fuse box that could cause problems are avoided. I did the same with My BMW R 1250 GS motorcycle, avoiding the Canbus. Also, during one of the light installations, I did not tighten the battery connectors enough and had a couple of engine blackouts while driving. Just my 2 cents, hope you find it useful.
     
    pc01619[OP] likes this.
  24. Jan 20, 2023 at 5:11 AM
    #24
    pc01619

    pc01619 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for the advice - been looking up some of these and some are pretty slick.

    Also worth bringing up after the first two instances of engine failure, the negative terminal was loose but I tightened it back down and it still occurred (2) more times with each terminal being tight so I don't know if that was the main issue.
     
  25. Jan 22, 2023 at 9:19 AM
    #25
    Cement17T4r

    Cement17T4r New Member

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    New to the forum, and saw your post and wanted to chime in because my situation is close to yours.

    In Nov around thanksgiving is when my problem started. I was driving my 17 4Runner (56k miles) it sputtered a little bit around 50 mph like it was going to die, I pulled over briefly and after sitting idle for less than a minute it seemed fine, so I continued to drive home, and got home safely. The next morning I go to start my 4Runner to head to work, and it would crank but wouldn’t start, after multiple tries it started but if you gave it gas or put into gear it would stall. Had it towed to the dealership, it stalled again once when the mechanic, and they said they could not replicate the issue, and to save me the diagnostic fee for trouble shooting they could wave it, if I opted to get my brake replaced now as they needed to replace. I agreed.

    I get it back, and drive it for most of Dec just fine until about Christmas time, when it stalled on me multiple times while driving, and at idle now. I was going about 45-50 when it stalled and luckily was able to come to a safe stop at a light, I was able to pull in to a neighborhood where it stalled again. I was maybe 2 miles from home so I made a decision to try to get home, I was able to get it home and it stalled as I pulling in to the driveway. I called the dealership, and said to bring it back. I asked them if it could be the fuel pump as multiple reports are the same issue as I was having. They said they would try to figure it out, and have someone take it on multiple test drives, after 80 miles of test driving it stalled on the lot attendant as they were close to the dealership. They eventually found the in tank fuel pump to be faulty which they state has an intermittent open circuit, and is binding internally. They tried to get Toyota to cover it, and they wouldn’t as my vin# and year were not part of the fuel pump recall. so I paid $1165 out of pocket, and got my 4Runner back on 1/3.

    I have had my suv back for about 2.5 weeks, a couple of days ago it felt like I lost a little bit of power while driving, and thought it was me being paranoid. Well today as I was driving home from getting groceries, it did the same thing where it felt like I lost throttle response, or it died and went back to normal. I got home parked it in the drive way, turned it off, gave it a few minutes, tried to start it and it is now having issues starting, and idling. After a few tries it finally started and giving it some gas. Now I’m gonna have to call the dealership and figure out what to do now.

    BTW. I have Morimoto XB LED highlights that has a fuse box tap as well, that was installed in the beginning of DEC after the first stalling incident.
     
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  26. Jan 22, 2023 at 10:16 AM
    #26
    Foothills

    Foothills New Member

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    I had a battery with internal problem with similar symptoms, changed the battery and never had another issue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
  27. Jan 22, 2023 at 11:01 AM
    #27
    wolfman

    wolfman New Member

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    Interesting thread. I hope you two gentlemen get it sorted and share what it was. I had this issue on an AMG. I traded it in.
     
  28. Jan 22, 2023 at 11:09 AM
    #28
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Welcome. Geez, this sucks. It seems the dealer was confident it was the fuel pump? Kind of hard to tell if they were throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck. One thing is for sure, they would have told you it was the lights if this was a warranty claim lol.

    Not gonna lie, the morimoto install in the middle of all of this muddies the water. IRC they are wired into the INJ circuit.

    However, if you are completely confident these lights arent the cause of the current stalling, you can check with the dealer to see if they have other ideas. If they dont think they did faulty work on the fuel pump, that means they were wrong about the cause (at your significant expense). That doesn’t make one confident in their work. Did you ask for the old fuel pump back? Maybe you can run some tests on it to see if it runs like it should.

    Throughout this whole ordeal, have you gotten any misfire codes or any other ones?

    Otherwise, it’s just gonna be going through all the possibilities.
    -rodent chewing through wire
    -water in the spark plug wells if you powerwash your engine
    -a bad coil, spark plug
    -a squirrel living in your airbox
    Etc…
     
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  29. Jan 22, 2023 at 11:18 AM
    #29
    Cement17T4r

    Cement17T4r New Member

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    I haven’t ruled out the headlights as a potential wild card, and cause of the issue still. I have thought about putting back the oem headlights.

    No CEL what’s so ever. When they ran diagnostic health check they did get P1604 which they state is related to the startability malfunction.

    My 4Runner is garage kept when home. I have rodent traps throughout the garage. But once again can’t ever rule out that being an issue with wiring, but they did check for that as well.

    As far are the fuel pump I said if I’m paying. I want the original parts that you take off, and I do have the original fuel pump.

    and the battery was replaced in September, with an optima yellow top. Same one I run in my 80 series, which hasn’t had any real issues except for fusible link failing, and brake booster right now
     
  30. Jan 22, 2023 at 11:30 AM
    #30
    Saker

    Saker New Member

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    I’m surprised they never said anything about your aftermarket led light. I had a fiasco with Toyota corporate about my LEDs in cab.

    Finally proved to Toyota was ạ faulty throttlbody!

    I would pull the Morimotos until it is sorted out.
     
    Too Stroked and Late Life Crisis like this.

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