Alright, let's be honest; who here is considering a 6th gen?

Look at your injector duty cycle on 100% gas vs ethanol blend e10
Your injectors are pumping about 15% more fuel on an ethanol blend to maintain the same mph on the highway versus 100% fuel
This directly results in a 15% reduction in fuel mileage.
Every time i switch from ethanol blend over to 100% fuel, i see about a 15-18% change in my fuel mileage. I am driving old vehicles that were tuned for 100% gasoline, around 2009 is when all manufacturers started tuning for ethanol blends because thats when it went far and wide. All my newer vehicles dont see the same change in fuel mileage, only my older stuff. I dont run 100% gas on any of my newer stuff because there isnt a change worth noting and the extra price for 100% fuel is wasted. This really only applies to the older vehicles.

I think the fuel trims in the newer vehicles are not able to stretch as wide as what is required for 100% gasoline. I have seen similar stuff in the powersports industry, like a new can-am offroad vehicles, their ECU is only able to deviate the fuel about 5-6% off from the base mapping. They could not cut the injector duty cycle back -15% to account for the 100% gasoline so i think the newer vehicles are the same as well.

 

I never saw it until November/December 2008. First time i saw it was a gas station in Arkansas that had e10, e85, and 100% gas. Then a few months later e10 was everywhere. By summer 2009 it was everywhere down here in the south.

 

Where are you getting this information from? Is this just specific to your vehicle?

I'm still having a really hard time believing that my 2003 V8 4Runner would have gotten 20 miles per gallon if I had used pure gasoline. I especially doubt it, because there were times that I ran non ethanol with that 4Runner and saw Zero difference.

 

If you had lived in or near a major city you probably would have seen it much sooner.

 

Supposedly, sure. Just like the 2.4T in the 6th gen compared to the 1GR. If the turbo 4 is so good they should have no fear of consumers being irrational, right? Right?

Another couple of examples:

Ford offered the 3.5L NA V6 Explorers alongside turbo 4s for some time, and they finally had to take out the NA V6 options due to too many fleets and individual buyers keeping buying them.

In F150s, when Ford offered the 3.3L v6 along side the 2.7L tubo 6 on the lower end, even though the turbo supposedly make more power and got more fuel economy, people kept buying the NA v6 such that Ford had to discontinue the 3.3 NA 6 due to CAFE pressure. Today even though the 3.5 EB makes more power and mpg on paper, the 5.0 Coyote is still an irreplaceable part of their line up.

Every time in recent automotive history when a manufacturer offered a NA and turbo downsized engine in option, consumers have show a clear willingness to stick with the "more ancient" product, and only way to stop consumers from buying those "dinosaurs" was to stop making the NA engines altogether.

Considering how well the 5th gen sold up to the end, your "customers want more power and fuel economy" base doesn't seem to the whole buyer base.

 

Yeah, you're definitely right. Consumers are irrational.

(Edit: I should clarify that I don't actually think it's irrational to prefer naturally aspirated motors over turbocharged motors. What I do think is irrational is expecting Toyota to do a bunch of extra R&D to offer a secondary motor option that could screw up their CAFE numbers, and/or might not perform well.)


Also, based on the comments from people owning 4th gen tacos after having second and 3rd gen Tacomas, Towing is significantly better with the new drivetrain.

Why would they be afraid of anything? They are offering the best option and only that option. At least, that's the way that they see it probably.

 

Says rational Thatbassguy who is not buying a 6th that is clearly more superior. LOL.

Of course your only viable response to consumers making their choices is to insult them. No surprise there.

 

You wont see much of any difference in one tank. Maybe 3-5% at most. You gotta run two tanks to really start seeing it, you'll be about 10% better fuel mileage at the end of the second tank. By the third tank you get the full results of 100% gasoline. Typically about 15% better fuel mileage versus ethanol blend. It takes a while for the ECU to "relearn" and change its parameters. The same with the ECU trans tuning, if you drive it easy for a long while the ECU starts making the trans lazy and shift at lower RPM and when you get in a panic situation and need all the throttle the trans is typically really lazy and slow. But if you drive aggressively all the time, the ECU and trans tuning are typically super crisp and fast. The ECU changes stuff but not like a light switch, it takes a bit of time.

 

"The buyers who bought one chose the only option we gave them, clearly it was the best choice"

LOL. Classic Thatbassguy.

 

Back to your usual BS argument I see. Apparently one cannot like a car if they don't buy it. What a lame argument.

Says the person who has called Toyota buyers lemmings. Lol. No surprise here, either.

 

My 03 V8 4th Gen averaged around 16. It was bone stock. I get 17.5 with my 5th Gen including full skids (RCI Al), rock rails (RSG) and a Sherpa rack. C Load 265 KO2s on TRD PRO Wheels so stayed fairly light on tires.

One thing that comes to mind is my 03 was a little over 400 lbs lighter than my 5th Gen when compared stock.

 

No. I won't be looking at a 6th Gen. I am looking into a LC200 heritage edition..V8 but the prices are too high and few choices.

 

I want an EV race car, just not THAT. Especially offensive is bullshit noises it makes. Once they come up with something that can take more than a few hot laps without going into thermal protection mode I will seriously look into getting one.

Similarly, I am not averse to 4cylinder turbo engines. I had Subaru WRX that was a lot of fun, if I had room in my driveway I'd consider getting another one. At the same time, 4cylinder turbo engine does not belong on a truck. When used in such application it is CAFE compliance engine.

Essentially, what manufacturers are doing with these turbo 4 is cheating on EPA tests. Or more charitably, designing for the test, where they use turbo engines to allow them drive off-boost on the test and show unrealistic fuel economy numbers. Turbo engine is designed to provide more power from a smaller displacement engine, in a chassis where you can't fit bigger engine or where bigger engine upsets weight distribution too much. This is not the case with 6th Gen 4Runner, it can take bigger NA engine, it should come with one due to use case (off road and towing).

And wanted it to be amphibious, have tractor yoke, and be able to handle 1G on a skid pad....

 

I agree that fake engine noises are lame.

Why don't turbo engines belong in trucks? They produce more usable power than their N/A predecessors, while providing better potential fuel economy.

We all know why they switched to smaller turbo engines. We can't blame Toyota for government regulations.

Given that our only option is going to be a "compliance engine", would you rather have a smaller turbocharged engine that produces more power than the previous generation had, or would you prefer a V6 that you have to rev the shit out of to make any power?

I was talking about practical wants and needs.

The whole "get a (insert vehicle that lacks capability) if you care about fuel economy" Argument is lame.

 

No you were not. You were asking for fuel economy out of vehicle that could tow and is capable offroader. These are contradictory goals. The resulting design will be a compromise that is poor at all of these things.

If you want fuel economy, the solution is known - EV (short trips) or hybrid (long trips) small passenger car with aerodynamic body and low resistance tires. If you want a towing vehicle, the solution is known - high displacement engine optimized for torque, ideally a diesel. If you want an offroad vehicle, the solution is known - engine optimized for low-RPM torque (i.e., naturally aspirated) and chassis with high clearance and heavy under body armor.

 

Not necessarily.

The new engine tows better and gets better fuel economy.

Off-road capability is a different subject, but we don't know how the new 4Runner is going to perform with modifications yet.

Ahh, yes. We're back to the same tired argument.

So, according to you, buying 3 vehicles is the most logical solution. The problem is that most people don't have the budget for this, or the space to store them.

Also, you don't need a full size truck for towing. Plenty of people tow with 4Runners and Tacomas every day. People used to tow with station wagons, ffs.

 

Turbo engines have a problem with knocking, where fuel spontaneously ignites during wrong portion of the cycle, resulting in catastrophic damage to pistons and rods. There are multiple causes for this, but it is more likely to happen under low-RPM high load situations. Additionally, turbo engines are very sensitive to lubrication issues, where any momentary disruption is very damaging.

Guess what happens as you crawl up the hill at low RPMs or tow heavy trailer through mountains? Yes, all of the above.

These are advertised features that are unlikely to be realized in practice throughout vehicle life cycle. What likely to happen is that turbo failure at around 60K will be common on ones that offroad, rod knock going to be an issue on ones that tow, and people that change oil ~10K will have sludge issues. Many will switch to premium fuel to try to mitigate some of this (premium fuel less likely to knock), negating any fuel savings over 1GR-FE. Meanwhile 1GR-FE 4Runners will still be on the road long after most 6Gen are scrapped.

 

OK. If new Tacos and 4runners start grenading at 60K miles, I'll buy you a Coke.

I fully agree and understand that we might not get the same bulletproof reliability as the 1GR. I'm just trying to look at the good along with the potential bad.

If the T24A is really engineered for the job, it might not have as many issues as you predict. It's not really being pushed very hard. I think, if anything, it might come down to driving habits and maintenance.

 

I drink old scotch, if you purchase a bottle of Glenmorangie 18 today I promise to share.

 

Lol.

I haven't tried their 18YR. I usually like Glenlivet.

But, I've been drinking more Bourbon and Tequila lately.

 

Also don't forget that many people will tune them, as it is easy to get more power with a tune (while making early failure more likely).

 

same here for my 2011 & 2022.

 

Personally I wouldn’t touch one for at least 3yrs and even then something catastrophic would have to happen to our 5th gen to make me change. I would probably look for a cherry used 5th gen, GX or maybe a nice older Sequoia instead.
I keep good vehicles a long time.
To each their own.

 

F that, just do an LS swap right away and be done with it.

 

... I am genuinely curious if anyone has done that to the 4R...

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/4Runner/comments/pyr0tx/ls_swap_completed/

Looks like it’s not… rare per se.

 

Yep. Just look at what the 4Runner started out as, and what it is now. 5 generations of "improvement" on the original and it's increasingly just another bulky SUV optimized primarily for commuting with a low range transfer case.

A few attempts have been made to make capable tow vehicles that are also off road worthy and all ended in at best mediocre outcome, a notable example being the Ram power wagon that is widely panned for its uninspiring off road manners, lousy on-road handling, dismal payload capacity, and middling towing capacity.

 

If you are genuinely curious enough, you can just google it.

 

Actually, tbh, imagine there was a swap kit for a 1UR-FE and the 6-speed from the GX-460! I would probably get a higher mileage 5th gen and do that swap.

 

The DOHC V8s are physically bigger than the pushrod V8s from GM so there is no reason a SBC or a later model small block GM wouldn't fit, hopefully from the pre-AFM years. But yeah, with 2UZ and 1UR being there, just get a v8 4th gen 4R or a pre-2023 GX and be done with it.