6th Generation

I’m kind of jazzed about a 6th Gen turbo4. I drive my 4Rs for 10+ years so I’ll probably wait for a few model years before buying one. But I’ll test drive. I just hope Toyota can overcome all the supply chain BS to meet consumer demand.

 

The 22r and 2tre and basically all 4 cylinder toyota truck engines are extremely reliable. They have legendary reliability. The turbo 4 cylinders aren't proven yet mixed with the 8 or 10 speed transmission the 4runner will most likely come with

 

So if the 22R-TE was mated with an 8-speed trans, you think it's reliability would be compromised significantly?

 

The 6th gen will be better on paper and worse in reliability. No way it's going to give as many trouble free miles as the 5th gen. Ya'll can bank on it.

 

I heard that Saab brought turbos to the automotive industry. Is this true?

 

I think what we know for sure about the 6th gen at this point is that we will know when Toyota wants the public to know. We can speculate to high heaven, but I highly doubt Toyota is going to put an unreliable engine turbo'd or not into a vehicle that has reputation for long term reliability & quality.

I expect similar stying cues as the Tundra/Sequoia twins in a smaller package. Hopefully with enough stylistic, engineering quality, & features to be both reliable and cause Jeep & new bronco owners to turn their heads and say "Wait a sec..."

In the mean time, long live the 5th gen.

 

Why? Do you know something about the 2.4 turbo that nobody else does?

Honestly, nobody here actually knows anything about the 6th gen. Everything we "know" is speculation at this point. Some speculation might be based on good information, but nothing is official until Toyota releases the specs.

The only thing we can bank on is that it will get better fuel economy.

 

You make a fair point about all the unknowns. I’m not claiming inside information. What I am doing is applying simple deductive logic. The truck must get better MPG and thus it must be more complicated. It also must contain more tech, because consumers are perceived to demand it.

More complexity + more tech = less reliability.

5-10 years from now we’ll be seeing it in real life and people will be nostalgic for the reliability and durability of the 5th Gen.

 

I'll repeat what I said earlier. Some of the most bulletproof engines are turbocharged. If Toyota can make a reliable 4 cylinder turbo diesel, why is it impossible to imagine that they can make a reliable 4 cylinder turbo gasoline engine?

Keep in mind that Toyota puts a turbo diesel 4 cylinder in the Hilux Surf (4Runner) in other markets. And, it's not for the sake of fuel economy.

 

Diesels are inherently more reliable than gasoline engines. We won't get diesel. If we got a proven turbo diesel I'd be much less concerned. But we know we won't. What we will get is smaller, direct injection gasoline engines putting out more power, and transmissions with a lot more gears. I'm sure it will all be high quality. It's not going to be a Ford or a Jeep. It just can't be as trouble free as what we now have. It can't be because it will have to be more complicated. It will have to be more complicated because of engineering choices made not for increased reliability and durability but for increased MPG. We all know that's true.

Small turbo and direct injection engines don't exist to increase durability and reliability. They exist to make the same or better power numbers while also getting better MPG numbers.

I'm not saying the 6th Gen won't be desirable. We have every reason to believe it will be better in certain ways. It simply can't be as trouble free. It simply can't be a 200-300K vehicle with as few issues as older 4Runners have at that kind of mileage.

If you want to prove this wrong, point to the vehicles on the list of vehicles most likely to exceed 200K miles that have small motors. There are none. Point to the ones that have turbos. There are none. The vehicles that lead that list are Land Cruisers, Sequoias, Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans and 4Runners. Small engines with turbos have been around for decades, but not a single one makes that list.

 

Just an example:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...o-wastegate-issues-keep-piling-up-179617.html

 

I know it won't be a diesel. Everyone knows that. It's been off the table for years.

And, everyone knows that they're going with a smaller turbocharged motor for fuel economy reasons.

Can we stop pointing out the obvious?

All I'm saying is that just because it should be less reliable doesn't automatically mean that it will be. Or, maybe they'll be good for 300,000 miles instead of 500,000. Or, maybe the engine will crap out at the same time the frame rusts through, instead of never.

This isn't the same engine and waste gate that is going in the 4Runner, though.

Aside from that, let's give them a year or 2 to work out the bugs before we judge long term reliability.

 

I suppose you cant ask for more than that lol.

hopefully, being a 4cyl might make it easier to take apart if needed.

 

This may be the best argument for not worrying about it. Otherwise we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

I wouldn’t have bought the 4Runner in 2020 had it come with a direct injected turbo 4. I would have gone Sequoia or Tahoe instead, despite them being bigger than I’d prefer. Just as, if I was now in the market for a pickup, I’d want the old Tundra over the new one.

Of course, my priorities are not everyone’s priorities. I value durability and minimal repairs over off road performance, acceleration, MPG etc.

I like having a few cars. One or two of them can be fast, economical etc so long as they’re at least average in reliability. But I want one vehicle to be as simple, reliable and durable as possible while also having very good utility. That’s why I got my 4R. And why I expect to keep it instead of trading it in for the 6th Gen.

 

And, maybe that's all we can hope for. I'll concede that there will definitely be more things to potentially go wrong. I'm just optimistic that the problems will be few and far between.

Of course, I'm not running out to buy the first one, even if they really nail it.

I sometimes think about getting a more fuel efficient second vehicle. The problem is that, even when I had access to my ex's Scion TC, I always wanted to drive the 4Runner.

 

I’m looking for a 2022 BRZ or GT86. Not great mpg but much better than the 4R. And should be one of the very best handling cars available — at any price. Fairly quick too, though for me handling is the priority.

I love that you can still get an old-school manual trans pure sports car — and without the safety Nannies. Front engine, RWD, LSD, incredibly low center of gravity, only about 2800 pounds (!!!) and yet has a decent sized trunk and even a back seat you can squeeze into in a pinch. Boxer motor, no turbo (I prefer the feel of NA) and the direct injection is complimented by a dash of port injection to prevent carbon buildup (about the only component on these twins that’s actually built by Toyota). And all for 27-31k. It looks damn near perfect.

Yes please:

 

I'm more into musclecars, but that does sound like a lot of fun, and pretty true to the spirit of a "sports car".

 

I dig muscle cars too. Was close to getting a Camaro SS several years ago. Also thought about a Charger RT.

To me, the most important thing in a performance car is how much it makes you smile. The feel of speed is more important than the actual numbers. My Bimmer did 0-60 in the 4s but I got way more smiles out of my VW GTI that would be smoked by the Bimmer both from a stoplight and in the corners. The BMW was a marvel of engineering, but lacked soul.

One of my favorite cars from my youth was an MGB, slow as hell but felt fast. I loved that you had to flog it. Most of the time your foot was on the floor.

We had a 2013 BRZ and I loved that you could redline the thing without ending up in jail. Also how tail happy it was. The new ones are much faster but about the same weight and still easy to slide — and again, without hitting way-illegal speeds. To me that’s the best.

I’ve enjoyed driving the 4R much more than I expected. It’s been great. I love it. But I got it for practical reasons. The utility/capability/durability. For day to day driving in decent weather, I’d usually prefer a pure sports car.

 

I wouldn't mind one of those at all! I actually considered replacing the ex's TC with one, but that's not really my concern anymore.

I also considered a Z to scratch the speed itch, as I think they're a good value for what you get. Plus, I think the 370 is gorgeous. I have read that they have a few quirks, but I could probably live with them.

Yeah, I don't know why I would ever need to be able to go 20 MPH in low range. . I'd be very happy with a 4:1 low range! As It is now, I am considering a regear down the road just because 4lo isn't low enough for me.

 

The new Z would be on my list if it was available. I’d prob still go with the BRZ/GT86 due to the incredible value at that price. Especially since it would be a third car in a family of two people. But the Z would be awfully tempting. Looks fantastic, gobs of power, and a pure sports car layout while probably being much more civilized for long drives — kind of a cross between a pure sports car and a Grand Tourer. Which is a nice place to be. My BMW M235i was like that, though weighted more to the GT side. I might still have it if BMW hadn’t F-ed up the steering feel.

 

Decent article about the 6th. https://www.hotcars.com/worth-waiting-sixth-generation-2023-toyota-4runner/

 

speaking of the Z

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/

 

I think Can and Driver is a total garbage magazine today, but articles like this where they totally nerd out over a car and actually drive it reminds me of how good they used to be back in the 90s.

Most car enthusiasts at their offices have ever died or have been told to write about painfully boring crossovers, or have moved on to other publications.

The Z will have an extremely limited market, just like the supra and the Toyota 86, that is the few hundred people who buy one will obsess endlessly about it, but most people will just be like “what is that” or “they still make that?”

 

I think you underestimate the popularity of the Z, and the 86. They're not as popular as some other sports/sporty cars, but still sell pretty good. The Z, in particular, has a long history and a lot of fans. I'm not a Nissan guy, but still appreciate the Z.

I'd say the Supra also, but IDGAF about the MKV, despite being obsessed with them since the late 90's.

 

I’m sure they are very popular to the people who own them, but I see like 100 Mustangs and Camaros for every Toyota and Nissan sports car out there.

It’s like they don’t even exist.

 

I am glad I got mine when I did, the new engines and new tech all sound like more stuff to go wrong in my opinion.

 

Not really a big Nissan fan, despite how much I liked my QX70. But I'm just glad they built the new Z, even though I'll most likely never own one.

 

I don't own either of them. But, I wouldn't mind owning one or the other. And, I see both regularly. Of course they'll never be as popular as the Camaro or Mustang, probably for the same reason the Supra didn't sell like the Corvette.

I can also understand why they're less popular. The 370Z was like 330 HP for around the same price as a Mustang with 400-some HP. It's hard not to be tempted by all of those ponies.

 

Not that Im looking to buy, but how has engine reliability been with the 86/BRZ? Does it suffer from the usual head gasket failures of the typical Subaru boxer engine? Are people able to rack on high miles without failures?

 

I think there's a member or 2 here that have them. I thought they usually became problematic when people would boost them, but I'm really not sure. I definitely have reservations about that flat 4.