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5th Gen Steering Wheel Shake: SOLUTIONS ONLY

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by James P, May 18, 2022.

  1. Jun 20, 2022 at 8:06 AM
    #151
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Thanks Electro. How have the Michelin AT's been in the snow, if you've had much experience with that? (I see you are in the Bay Area of CA).

    While I much prefer the look of the 17" TRD rims, and think the stock 20" rims are kinda dumb, my main reason for the new wheels was to have a better range of tire choices. I especially wanted choices that would be good in the snow without having to go to a winter-specific tire like Blizzak. That's why I tried the Three-Peak rated Michelin Agilis Cross Climate, which had the added benefit of E Load toughness. When that caused both shimmy and body vibration, including after an alleged RoadForce balance, I returned them for another Three-Peak tire, the Pirelli Scorpion ATs. On paper they are a very good all around road tire, with of course the added benefit of decent off road performance, while weighing a lot less than the E Loads. So I was hopeful. But my hopes were dashed.

    In thinking about actual solutions, it occurs to me that it would help to compile a list of tires that people have not struggled with. If this list shows consistent results, it could be a very handy guide. Because I really do believe that tire design is a key factor in this problem.

    We maybe have a start on that list of tires that work, at least after balance attempts:
    1. Michelin AT
    2. Bridgestone Dueller H/T D684 II
    3. ...
    4. ...
    5. ...

    Feel free to join in everyone!!!
     
  2. Jun 20, 2022 at 12:13 PM
    #152
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    Has anyone here heard of a 3 vs 6 point way to balance a tire?
     
  3. Jun 20, 2022 at 12:13 PM
    #153
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    On my two previous (1st and 3rd Gen) 4Runners I had Michelin M/S2 tires, then the Defender LTX M/S tires. They balanced great and worked well for me for driving on dry roads and in the Sierra Nevada mountains snow. But my driving experience there was limited to hard packed plowed roads with very cold surfaces, and warmer daytime slush. Although I once did a 50 mile drive in a snowstorm in 12-15 inches of fresh snow from Groveland into Yosemite valley in my 3rd Gen on the Defender LTX tires. A normal 1.5 hour drive took 3.5 hours but it was a blast. I only saw two other cars going the opposite way and the 4Runner just bulldozed it’s way up and down hills in fresh untracked snow. Growing up in the western NYS snowbelt, you learn driving techniques that can work with just about any 2WD car and tire combination. Mostly by momentum and driving/braking/turning slower and more deliberately. So a 4Runner in 4WD with decent tires is quite amazing to me in snow.

    For the Michelin LTX A/T2 tires on my 5th Gen, I don’t have any snow experience with them yet. But they have been great for me in dirt, gravel, and deep sand.

    But as far as balancing and vibrations are concerned, if a tire or wheel is not defective a good tire tech should be able to balance it. I think it depends on the skill and determination of the shop to get it right.
     
  4. Jun 20, 2022 at 12:27 PM
    #154
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    I love those WNY heavy snow falls, makes for a fun time to play before the plows come, or plow you into your drive way.
     
    ElectroBoy[QUOTED] likes this.
  5. Jun 29, 2022 at 4:50 PM
    #155
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

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    Just updating, as promised. Still no shimmy since I went back to the OEM wheel/tire setup. Will update again after more miles. But I never had it on the first 13K miles on this wheel set, so don't expect to have it now that I'm using them again.

    Meanwhile my beautiful new TRD wheels with Pirelli AT tires sit unloved in my garage...
     
    nimby, 2Toys and ElectroBoy like this.
  6. Jul 7, 2022 at 7:49 PM
    #156
    Loco x Toyota

    Loco x Toyota New Member

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    I sold my OEM wheels and tires and can't test, but during that short couple of days those were on, I don't remember shimmy.
    Only after I put on wildpeak AT tires did I start noticing.

    Maybe I should just order a new set of highway tires instead of AT tires, I can live with not looking bad ass but shimmy just ruins my mood I even wanted to sell it and get a highlander instead
     
  7. Aug 26, 2022 at 4:50 PM
    #157
    Loco x Toyota

    Loco x Toyota New Member

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    look no further, Michelin Defender is the choice for street tires.
     
    RingSteel likes this.
  8. Aug 27, 2022 at 6:22 AM
    #158
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    Just remember it only takes one Little Rock on that gravel road to jam in between the treads and create a slow leak or worse a flat. Happened to me a few weeks ago.
     
  9. Aug 27, 2022 at 8:43 AM
    #159
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    It’s more about thickness or ply of the tire. But thicker or more ply tires weight more. At under 4K I needed to plug a rock hole in my factories. But I knew the roads I was going to travel had a high likely hood of it. Now the worst part, I had a better set of wheels/tires sitting in my shed, but it was hot the week prior to my trip, so I never switched em.
    I’m going back up in a week or so, and the better set is already on.

    hope all works out with your new gear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
    RingSteel likes this.
  10. Aug 27, 2022 at 8:52 AM
    #160
    jackacc

    jackacc New Member

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    I dealt with the shake for 3 years. Toyota had it in multiple times, they replaced tires (stock), they tried replacing rims, they balanced tires and aligned it many times but the shake never went away completely, it did get slightly better after all the things they tried. I just learned to live with it because I love the truck so much, but it was a bit frustrating.

    Then I installed an Eibach pro truck lift with Ironman UCA's (while on the stock rims and tires) and the shake vanished. I just had new 285's installed and the shake is still gone. So my solution was the new suspension and UCA's. Good luck to everyone out there fighting this issue.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2022 at 11:48 AM
    #161
    Kilo Papa

    Kilo Papa New Member

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    This^^^^^
    Feel your pain, brother.

    Disclaimer- This is my opinion only:

    I’ve now owned 2 T4R’s and neither has had the dreaded “wobble” with stock wheels and tires. On my ‘17 SR5P I bought after-market wheels (Methods) and tires (went through both, BFGKO2’s and Falken WP’s trying to resolve the wobble). Balanced three or four times, exchanged a reportedly out of round tire for a replacement, etc, etc. No relief.

    My current ‘21 TRD Pro has stock wheels and tires and no wobble.

    So, absent something that changes my mind, here’s where I land:

    1. The original / stock wheels are hub centric and tires of a specific specs are put on by Toyota.

    Most, if not all, aftermarket wheels discussed here are lug-centric which allows their wheels to be used on a wide variety of vehicles. This, in my opinion, could be link #1 in a chain of changes leading to wobble with the 4runner’s design.

    2. Non-stock tires of differing sizes and ratings have weight different than stocks. Rolling larger, heavier than stock tires creates a different dynamic force on the vehicle than the stock ones, (I am not an engineer) which could create a second link in a chain leading to wobble with the 4runner’s design.

    3. Having read many (if not all) threads here on the subject, while I understand the position of some members who say get it BALANCED PROPERLY, I am of a mind that not all those with wobble suffer from an improper balance. If so, why does the problem not manifest itself as often with stock wheels and tires? Volume and repetition (BALANCE THEM AT A “GOOD”SHOP!!) does not equal truth. I am happy for those who found a fix with a”good” balancing vs our multiple bad ones. However the anecdotal totals of the problem continuing does not convince me that “GET A GOOD BALANCE” can be the fix for all.

    Wish it were that simple.

    My opinion only but thought I’d submit it here and add to the content base of our forum. Just trying to add to the tribal info here for others with the “shakes.”
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
  12. May 10, 2023 at 5:38 AM
    #162
    jqwalls

    jqwalls New Member

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    Just wanted to chime in on this thread. I have a 2023/ 40th anniversary 4runner I bought NEW a month ago. I test drove 5 4 runners since 2020 and they all had the shake but I wanted this one so bad I bought it anyway. Well I had vibration from day one between 58 and 68 mph that could be seen in the steering wheel and the headrest of the passenger seat. I had multiple regular balances, bought NEW TIRES, Road force balances and an alignment. None of them took the vibration away. Toyota told me to kick rocks.

    I had a 2019 trdor and it shook as well. The problem still exists in 2023 and it cannot be fixed. It truly is a characteristic of the vehicle so if you are OCD like me, just skip it and save yourself the heartbreak and frustration. You are not special. Your tire shop is not better than everyone else’s. Their balance machine is not better than everyone else’s and you will have a vibration/shake in your brand new $50,000 suv that you will be forced to overlook for long as you own it. It is not a tire or alignment issue no matter how much you want it to be. I really wanted to love this truck, but I despise it and I hate myself for buying it.
     
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  13. May 10, 2023 at 5:46 AM
    #163
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    Exactly how I felt! Look in my vehicle signature area LOL
     
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  14. May 10, 2023 at 9:31 AM
    #164
    hossler1788

    hossler1788 Turtle

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    Try rotating the front tires to the back and back to the front.. that helped mine.

    Take it to an offroad shop with a road force balancer, explain to the tech there what your issue is. My offroad shop balanced my tires perfectly and my Toyota dealer tired 3 times and couldn't get it right.
     
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  15. May 10, 2023 at 12:36 PM
    #165
    Beachguy

    Beachguy Normal turned up too loud

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    Welcome to the forum.
     
  16. May 10, 2023 at 12:52 PM
    #166
    sympley76

    sympley76 New Member

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    I don't want to jinx myself but I got a new set of wheels and tires and so far so good.....knock on wood.

    It was annoying steering shake with stock tires and OEM 20"
    It got worst with 1" spacers.
    It got much better with winter tires on the OEM 20" and no spacers. (I put on 275 on the 20" so it would rub with the spacers anyway)
    So far about 2,000km on new 22" and 275/45/22 and no shake.

    Seems it might be balancing or someone mentioned the lug-centric wheels.
     
  17. May 10, 2023 at 1:28 PM
    #167
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    What were the run-out numbers after your balance?
     
  18. May 10, 2023 at 3:45 PM
    #168
    hossler1788

    hossler1788 Turtle

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    When I was running wheel spacers the viberation/shake was much more noticeable when one tire was out of balance.


    I wouldn't go throwing lug centric wheels on though.
     
  19. May 10, 2023 at 4:21 PM
    #169
    ChessGuy

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    Too many..... Performance: • Magnusum Supercharger • Gibson exhaust with dual black tip • Pedal Commander * PowerBrakes • Suspension – Old Man Emu BP-51 front and back with Medium load coils • Tires: AT3 Faulken Wildpeak – 285/70/17 • Wheels: Relations Race Wheels, RR7-H with -12 offset • Full roof rack and ladder by Westcott Design (removed the stock Yakima basket) • Molle storage panels by Rago fabrication • Front light brackets by Rago • Illuminator light bracket by Rago (roof rack location) Lights • Morimoto front and back with sequential signals • Morimoto fog lights and side mirrors with sequential signals • 40” Baja design light bar for roof rack • 20” S8 Baja design driving combo (winch location) • Squadron sport baja design ditch lights • S2 Chase lights by baja designs (mounted on roof) In the bay: • Odyssey 34-PC Battery • SDQH Aluminum billet battery terminals and bracket • Switch Pro 9100 with aluminum tray • Anytime front and back camera • ARB twin compressor Recovery & Protection: • Smittybilt X20 synthetic rope winch • Factor 55 fairlead and flatlink • Southern Style Off-road (SSO) low profile bumper • SSO stage 2 high clearance wings • Weekend warrior recovery kit by treaty oak • RCI – skid plates – entire vehicle + catalytic converter protection wings Interior: • Nano Ceramic IR – Avery Dennison Window tint – all windows • Several phone mounts • Upgraded Rear Hatch lift gate struts (ladder is heavy) • Boom blaster horn switch (featuring La cucaracha)
    I wouldn't give up on finding the fix for your particular 4R on this shake issue.

    here is what I did:
    1. Tried several Discount Tire stores - I even got inside on one of them to really understand the road force balancing and how that gets done.
    2. I went and put in the ECGS needle bearing on the front and repeated the wheel balancing.

    Problem solved. But yes, it can be frustrating and costly, but in the end it was worth for me to understand all the details of my particular 4R. I have a sister that owns a 2021 ORP model and it is completely stock, and she has zero issues with this. Of course, I have all kinds things in mind - lift, different suspension, bigger tires, you name it, so when you do all of this crap to the poor truck, the symmetry changes right away, but I found the solution that worked for my unit. Hope this helps others.
     
    2Toys likes this.
  20. May 11, 2023 at 5:40 PM
    #170
    Luccig

    Luccig 2020 Limited

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    Mine had it, original Toyo tires, I got them balanced after a tire rotation and that did it, no more shaking.

    Also I have 1.5 inch wheel spacers from the previous owner. I'll keep them for now, even though people say they'll eat suspension, ball joints, etc. like tik-toks. We'll see.
     
    nimby likes this.
  21. May 11, 2023 at 7:01 PM
    #171
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    They don't.

    Had mine on thousands of miles (multiple vehicles). No wheel spacer related issues whatsoever.
     
  22. May 13, 2023 at 5:18 AM
    #172
    Great Truck

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    I am super sensitive to the shake. After the '21-'22 winter I had a tire shop mount and balance my original Dunlop AT20s. Smooth everywhere but 62-64 mph. My son and I moved the fronts to the back and re torqued all (they were way off torque specs of 76 ft lbs for aluminum stock wheels - smooth. For the winter of '22-'23 the Toyota dealership mounted and balanced my winter tires (Hankook Winter X) with absolutely no problem! Just bought new set of General Grabber HT60 summer tires, mounted and balanced at Toyota and the shake, though sometimes intermittently smooth is there. Re-torqued the fronts and the shake is less but still there just a bit. Road force numbers are: Driver Front 15, Passenger Front 23, Driver Rear 22, Passenger Rear 31 (which is why I didn't put that one on the front). I don't get any considerable rear-generated vibration. I'm going to try Toyota this week to see if they can get it smooth (or if they just refer me to counseling ;).
     
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  23. May 13, 2023 at 3:34 PM
    #173
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    You're definitely more likely to shimmy in the front with run-out numbers north of 20.

    The rear is not nearly as sensitive.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  24. May 14, 2023 at 9:19 AM
    #174
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    I don’t believe in the whole tire balance thing, 15 years of driving multiple sets of tires on multiple vehicles I never had a single place being a chain, a dealer, a independent shop, or a side of the road guy put tires on any vehicle without being properly balanced, only time mine became unbalanced once was when the weights flung off, and even then the truck at the time (01 tahoe with ko2’s) didn’t shake like a 4 runner. The 4 runner was the only vehicle that all of the above could not fix. It’s the vehicle.
     
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  25. May 14, 2023 at 10:49 AM
    #175
    Biriuk619

    Biriuk619 New Member

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    Not sure if mentioned previously but has anyone tried to replace the needle bearing to the ECG bearing. I have heard of this issues for years and this seems to be the fix.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nllcwqI1YVI
     
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  26. May 14, 2023 at 10:58 AM
    #176
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    Only fixes the vibration / groan
     
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  27. May 15, 2023 at 8:14 AM
    #177
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    Your past experiences are clouding your judgement. The 4Runner is not a Tahoe and requires a different procedure to balance it properly.

    The reason why you're continuing to have problems with it is because you're not willing to listen to new solutions.
     
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  28. May 15, 2023 at 8:51 AM
    #178
    Tmiesowicz

    Tmiesowicz New Member

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    So the 4 runner is the only vehicle in the world that requires a special magical man to get it to be proper? Just sounds like BS honestly, I’m not just saying a Tahoe, I’m saying all vehicles seem to not have balance issues. Tacoma’s rav4’s tundras and such don’t suffer from this. If someone can balance 37’s mud tires and have them be fine on a vehicle, they should be able to handle a stock size 4 runner tire with ease
     
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  29. May 15, 2023 at 1:00 PM
    #179
    TCW1184

    TCW1184 New Member

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    What's up, guys. You never really notice the quirks until you drive something for a little bit. Noticed the shake today at 58-63. Hadn't driven the truck in a week, so I thought the tires were cold and had flat spotted a little, but it didn't go away, which lead me here. Joy. Seems like there's always at least one thing with each vehicle. Made an appointment with the dealer Monday to see about a few corrections. I'm going to ask them to check the balance, and alignment (it's pulling to the right a little at higher speed). I've seen a few people say Pro wheels were worse than the standard OR wheels for this issue. Hopefully not.
     
  30. May 15, 2023 at 3:15 PM
    #180
    hossler1788

    hossler1788 Turtle

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    I agree i never had balancing issues until I bought toyotas and it seem they all have been hyper sensitive to balancing. I lucked out and my local 4x4 shop can get it right and its been smooth ever since.
     

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