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4RUNNER LIMITED BUYER BEWARE X-REAS SUSPENSION FAILS

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by tkmarch1, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. Dec 14, 2018 at 4:09 PM
    #1
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    BUYER BEWARE – 100% FAILURE OF 4RUNNER LIMITED X-REAS SUSPENSION UNDER 50,000 MILES. CONTACTED TOYOTA CEC. TOYOTA ACKNOWLEDGING FAILURES ONLY OFFERING $500 TOWARD $3866 REPAIR CLAIMING $500 COVERS COST OF BASE SYSTEM SUSPENSION, FURTHER CLAIMING NO DIFFERENCE IN RIDE BETWEEN BASE SUSPENSION SYSTEM AND X-REAS.

    To begin, I don’t off-road! This is all City and Highway driving. I have a 2013 4Runner Limited and my wife has a 2015 Rav4. My 2013 4Runner Limited has just over 47100 miles, with suspension failure diagnostics at under 47000 miles. Diagnosis came during an early December 2018 alignment check when all 4 shocks were noted as “leaking”. This is additionally after a 10-11-2018, 45912 mile, regularly scheduled maintenance check at Mountain States Toyota (Colorado) which included Toyota’s “complimentary multi-point inspection” in which no suspension issues or concerns were noted.

    Based on the above, Toyota wants me to believe that ALL 4 shocks, 100% of the system, failed simultaneously within 1000 miles. They further want me (and you) to believe that these X-REAS systems are reliable, lasting up to and through 150K miles, yet facts show differently. The X-REAS systems can only be considered reliable up to 50K miles at most. If you get more, consider yourself lucky.

    To formally price out repair costs, I contacted Stevenson Toyota West (Colorado). Stevenson Toyota West asked me to bring it in, confirmed 100% failure, and recommending I contact Toyota’s CEC (Customer Experience Center). Ultimately, Toyota CEC’s representative acknowledges that these failures are far more common than Toyota cares for you to know stating, “For all of the customers that have this issue, the majority end up replacing with the standard base model suspension system”. So, while Toyota recognizes the cost to replace their proprietary system, and recognizes that failures are far more common than they would like you to believe, when the X-REAS systems do fail, Toyota expects you to downgrade your system from what you purchased and the ride you expect, to something very sub-standard. If you question this, just take vehicles with both suspensions for a test drive. The rides are completely different. In the end, the only reason that Toyota is saying this is because customers are forced into a situation where customers simply DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO REPLACE WITH LIKE. CUSTOMERS ARE FORCED TO SETTLE FOR SUB-STANDARD SUSPENSIONS.

    But don’t worry, Toyota cares and is there for you (Sarcasm). Since you can’t afford the $3866 price tag to replace the X-REAS system with like, they will help you out, offering you $500 off the system replacement. Toyota CEC’s representative explained where that number came from. See, shocks for Toyota’s sub-standard base model suspension system only cost $500 (For all 4). BTW, the full cost of the sub-standard base model suspension system, furnish and install, is $1280. Now, by offering you $500, aren’t they generous?

    Toyota is minimally skewing facts if not outright lying to customers. They tout their X-REAS suspension system as some revolutionary thing yet it is unreliable and will cost you dearly in the end. The only part you can rely on is it will fail and, when it does, Toyota will be happy to bend you over in one way or another. For note, I declined the $500. It is a complete slap in the face and now I can freely speak out.

    Toyota … If you’re reading this, your response was a joke. Reference case number 1812132362. It’s time you stand behind your products. If such failures are so rare, as you wish people to believe, you should provide longer warrantees and, for these systems when they fail so early, replace them at your cost.
     
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  2. Dec 14, 2018 at 4:32 PM
    #2
    scottalot

    scottalot Stockalot

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    I’d take the 500.00 and run with it. In the end that’s a good bit of help towards a new suspension.. maybe look at some of the aftermarket alternatives
     
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  3. Dec 15, 2018 at 6:33 AM
    #3
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    We actually don’t use a salt brine mixture on the roads, we live in the suburbs, and the past 5 years have been fairly mild. And, we bought the extended warranty, so it is barely out of warranty. At 13% of the total estimated cost, and when they try to feed me the line that is what a standard suspension costs (another lie) and that it rides the same (another lie) that tells me that Toyota is completely oblivious to their product performance and goes into every high end purchase expecting to rip people off. It also tells me that the quality measures (Kaizen) that they want every company to measure themselves against is a complete lie. I do believe that Mountain States is lying as well with their multi point inspection. I also believe that customer service representatives are trained to parrot back your complaint and just say anything to get you off the phone without Toyota being accountable for anything. All of those lies and corporate culture add up to a company with a complete lack of integrity.
     
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  4. Dec 15, 2018 at 8:56 AM
    #4
    Kyblack76

    Kyblack76 New Member

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    I'm lost in this,..and a bit over my head, but, how is 4 leaky shocks, complete system failure!?. Did you notice spots from the leak(s) in your drivway? Leak equals puddle where I'm from. Ya notice any of that?
    Did you know something odd was happening,.. until till some one told you. Drove fine? Nothing wierd?
    I didnt even know what xreas was. Only know/heard of kdss, So, I googled It, the first video is of a dude taking his working system off, to replace with whatever hes doin, and he mentioned 160k, and still works. Just goin a different route.
    Got pics of leaks? I'd love to seem em, hella curious.
     
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  5. Dec 15, 2018 at 11:00 AM
    #5
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    No puddles in the driveway. All 4 failed at the same time, as diagnosed by Toyota and requiring shocks, actuators, hoses, etc, so a complete failure. No weird driving, consistent maintenance at a Toyota dealership and nothing mentioned. And it’s very curious, given all the research and links, that Toyotas aren’t falling apart left and right in Colorado. Everyone else having a different experience does not negate the validity of the issue or make the complaint a “tantrum”. The actual hard truth is that I expected the same experience as everyone else and did not get it. Toyota even acknowledged that they expect this failure at 50k miles or less; hardly “random”. I didn’t expect total support, but yes, I did expect to get Toyota’s attention, and I certainly expected better customer service knowing how important it is to keep a business reputation that is generally held as a gold standard. But given how quickly the thread devolved into condescension and name calling because I’m not willing to drink the Toyota Kool Aid and sing their praises, I guess you are right. I’m done here, but I am going to continue to post elsewhere.
     
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  6. Dec 15, 2018 at 11:21 AM
    #6
    Strandskov

    Strandskov Take the Road Less Traveled

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    I agree with what your saying, the problem is that people that post on these forums especially newcomers should be prepared to hear out the facts if they can't handle it then don't bring the attention to themselves then have a fit about it... You always have to reap repercussions when you want to be heard....
     
  7. Dec 15, 2018 at 11:49 AM
    #7
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    We did a lot of research on reliability and longevity before we purchased. That was why we went with a Toyota in the first place. We found out that Toyota expects the failure after we called and complained about our experience. The customer service rep told us about the expected failure. The vehicle is garage kept and is hand power washed, including the undercarriage, very regularly, especially in the winter months. We came from the East coast and are very aware how quickly a car can rust if it is not cleaned.

    The bottom line is, this is either an expected failure or a manufacturing defect. If in fact, according to everyone else’s experience, the system failed unusually early, then it is a manufacturing defect on this specific vehicle. Toyota should therefore stand behind their product. If it is an expected failure, then they should be up front about it. But, offering $500 to have what everyone considers abnormally early for this $4000 repair to be done, and then claim that a standard suspension is the same as the more expensive one that I paid for, is insulting to the reputation Toyota has built, and is a slap in the face to the consumer.

    I am curious. Why are you defending Toyota so vehemently?

    PS not worried about repercussions I might reap. Prepared to pay for repairs, but people need to know.

    To the requests for photos, see below.303900C5-2DC6-4053-A097-93980AE88455.jpg 18AC3AA0-B0FB-458F-A9B9-20C65FC6E6B7.jpg82091AAF-431D-47E3-9056-606359A22181.jpg
     
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  8. Dec 15, 2018 at 11:51 AM
    #8
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner Moderator Staff Member

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    The left coast
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    Mad driver mod. OME Suspension. 285/70R17 BFG AT KO2
    The xreas system is where the 4 shock absorbers are interlinked with each other
    he doesn’t have KDSS, the XREAS system is an actual system that ties the shock absorbers together. The KDSS ties the sway bars together and isn’t connected to the shock absorbers.
     
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  9. Dec 15, 2018 at 11:54 AM
    #9
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner Moderator Staff Member

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    The left coast
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    Xreas diagram
    C1657633-5719-4874-A7F3-0C3C09F58CD3.jpg

    KDSS
    F2E5FE1B-86F1-4E5E-A4C7-1FE04AF0FB56.jpg
     
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  10. Dec 15, 2018 at 12:36 PM
    #10
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    4X4Runner Moderator, yes. And the whole system was noted as failed 1000 miles after a multi point inspection was allegedly done. So, seeing that you are a Staff Member, I’m curious what your take is.
     
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  11. Dec 15, 2018 at 1:16 PM
    #11
    4X4Runner

    4X4Runner Moderator Staff Member

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    The left coast
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    I’m working on the diff oils and transfer case right now but will comment later.

    I surely don’t think you’re throwing a tantrum and have a legitimate concern regarding your shocks.

    I’m curious to learn more about it though
     
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  12. Dec 15, 2018 at 2:01 PM
    #12
    Strandskov

    Strandskov Take the Road Less Traveled

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    Look I totally understand what you're discussion is about and not trying to add more fuel to the fire. I'm just simply saying that not all people my agree so don't take anything offensively. Hope you resolve your matter..
     
  13. Dec 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
    #13
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    47k miles for a suspension system to fail is not, by any account or opinions expressed here or with mechanics, what would be considered within a normal timeline. That is my issue with Toyota. They claim that the XREAS system is higher end and should last for 150k-200k miles. Many, many owners experience that longevity and more. I would have expected a minimum of 100k. However, my experience, which appears to be an anomaly, was minimized and the resolution offered was to partially compensate me based on a downgraded suspension system. That would be the equivalent of the builder offering you 1/3 the price of linoleum counters to make your granite right. And yes, I would light up the builder in your example. Granite should last for more than 2 years, just as suspensions should last more than 47,000 miles.

    A satisfactory resolution? A very reasonable question. I would have been willing to accept paying for labor and Toyota paying for parts.
     
  14. Dec 15, 2018 at 4:03 PM
    #14
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    There’s warranty, and then there is an expectation of workmanship quality. It appears we have differing opinions on how to hold people accountable to that expectation. If a company advertises higher quality than anyone else, we expect them to at least attempt to work with the consumer to be able to continue to advertise that, regardless of a warranty. Several companies adhere to that quality standard accountability practice; LLBean, Tim’s Boots to name a couple. We are simply expecting the same from a company with a similar reputation such as Toyota.
     
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  15. Dec 15, 2018 at 4:38 PM
    #15
    JerseyDevil5

    JerseyDevil5 New Member

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    I understand your frustration completely. It sucks that the replacement of the x-reas system is so expensive. I think that there are so many different variables that could have caused the failure. Who truly knows? At this point, you know the system needs to be replaced and there’s nothing you can do about it. I purchased a 2018 Limited with the x-reas system in September and came from a 2010 SR5 with a 3” lift (Bilstein Shocks and Toytec Springs) that I put on. Being completely honest, I really can’t tell much of a difference between the two as far as ride quality. I do the majority of my driving on road. You may not want to hear this, but I do have to agree with others that say to take the $500 from Toyota and just replace the shocks with Bilstein’s or whatever you choose. I don’t believe the price tag for the x-reas is worth it. I would ask about what type of warranty is going to come with the new x-reas system if you go that route. Either way, good luck with your 4Runner! They really are great and reliable vehicles.
     
  16. Dec 15, 2018 at 8:54 PM
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    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    The replacement XREAS system would have a 12 month warranty. So, no, we don’t think it’s worth the price tag. We drove a Toytec with a lift and also found the ride to be similar to the XREAS. More similar than a base suspension. I still think that using a warranty as your only recourse or caving because something is out of warranty, is wrong when a manufacturing defect found, even if the defect is one in 100,000. When you pay good money for something, you expect it to last close to what a normal lifespan is. I refuse to give Toyota a pass at 1/3 the expected lifespan of a system, warranty or not.
     
  17. Dec 16, 2018 at 7:49 AM
    #17
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    Toyota said that they expect a certain amount to fail at 50k. Per several times on this post and across many others, owner experience is 150k-200k miles. So, 1/3 or 1/4 of normal expected lifespan. If, as I’ve said, my experience is an anomaly, and considering I do not do any 4 wheeling or extreme driving, that only leaves a manufacturing defect. It’s too far outside the norm to have any other logical explanation. I appreciate your passion about your Toyotas and your experience. Mine is just not the same at all, and I continue to be puzzled by a company that claims such a high quality standard that they aren’t even willing to look at the possibility that something went wrong in the manufacture of my specific vehicle.
     
  18. Dec 16, 2018 at 11:47 AM
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    WallyT4R

    WallyT4R New Member

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    Well I hope you can find a solution you can be at peace with. I specifically chose not to get KDSS or a vehicle with XREAS since I have heard of these systems failing. Also I wonder if the fact that you didn't really use the system (no off road or suspension flexing what so ever) had something to do with it failing. I know there is no way to determine that but it would be interesting to know what caused the failure. These systems need worked from time to time to ensure they work properly...such as putting your vehicle in 4 wheel drive 10 miles a month as Toyota recommends.
     
  19. Dec 17, 2018 at 6:21 AM
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    grayflare

    grayflare New Member

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    I am sorry that you are not happy with your purchase. I have to disagree with some of your opinions on suspensions. I am an ex mechanic and to say a suspension of any kind should last for 150,000 miles is absurd. Shocks and other more expensive suspension systems are wear items, just like brakes, lights, clutches etc... None of these are warranted for that amount of time. If you did not want to have to pay for the replacement cost after the warrantee ran out you should not have bought one that was that expensive. I think Toyota was very nice to offer you the $500.00 dollars and let you do with it what you will. Personally I would have taken the money and used it to buy better than stock shocks. No shocks that I am aware of will last as long as you stated not even Fox or Kings, wear items wear out that is why they are called wear items and are not an exception to the warrantees. Do some last longer than others? yes, that does not make the ones that wear out at 50,000 miles bad. If your vehicle would have been bought with regular shocks that could be replaced for $50.00 apiece would you still expect Toyota to replace them for free? You said you chose that suspension for the ride and was willing to pay extra for it, but now you are not. This I don't understand, sorry.
     
  20. Dec 17, 2018 at 11:55 AM
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    j cat

    j cat New Member

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    I am no expert on your suspension system but I do have to say all 4 shocks are bad and the controller also ?

    I would do the research and also find a repair shop that has the skills to find the ONE component that created this failure..

    all 4 shocks do not fail with in 1 hr of use .. it must be a [1] component that does the control of these shocks.
    my guess electrical . rodent chewing etc..

    did a quick look up on your issue . any leak even very small will cause the suspension system to fail .. system comes as a complete pkg all sealed up cannot add any fluid to this system .. I found $2500 to replace it .

    many did do the Bilstein shock and coil replacing .. much cheaper and most liked this repair process..

    2013 runner , I would trade it in for a new one .
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  21. Dec 17, 2018 at 12:51 PM
    #21
    4X4Runner

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    The left coast
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    To my knowledge, both the KDSS and X-REAS systems are purely hydraulic with electrical only being diagnostic.

    Now, given that the xreas is a system that interconnects the shocks with a dampener/center control absorber with multiple connection points it’s not outside the realm of possibilities that one of those connections wasn’t secured to spec during installation.

    I tend to believe that this was an issue earlier on than the earlier 1k inspection and could have been purely overlooked by the Tech.

    It sucks that it’s outside the warranty and unless OP can prove that there was indeed a manufacturer defect I think he’s stuck with the $500 option and at that point, I’d rip out the xreas and go with aftermarket
     
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  22. Dec 17, 2018 at 7:14 PM
    #22
    Riding Dirty

    Riding Dirty Sinner; saved by grace

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    Take the 500 bucks and get a good aftermarket setup. It sucks for sure that the system failed so soon, but unless Toyota decides to do more,you don’t have much options left.
     
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  23. Dec 18, 2018 at 3:56 PM
    #23
    graysquirrel

    graysquirrel Gunsmith

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    I too would find it hard to believe that any suspension system could get 150K-200K miles before failure. If it were me, I would take the $500 bucks, tell them to pull off the X-REAS system and just throw on the shocks for an SR5.

    I've got a limited with the X-REAS on it, but I can't think it would make the truck that much better on-road than a standard SR5 suspension.
     
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  24. Dec 19, 2018 at 4:42 PM
    #24
    tkmarch1

    tkmarch1 [OP] New Member

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    The diagnosis came from a Toyota dealership. It is a paired sealed system. There is no single component that can be replaced. Per the photos, you can see no rodent chewing or such. The $500 was not a “do with it what you will” offer. It was only to be used at the dealership, and only for either a new XREAS or a downgraded suspension. Still highly disillusioned with Toyota and the rep.
     
  25. Dec 19, 2018 at 5:17 PM
    #25
    4X4Runner

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    The left coast
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    @tkmarch1 where are you located? I have the full suspension from my Offroad sitting here collecting dust. Front coil overs are fully assembled too.

    Willing to let them go for the low price of $free.99
     
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  26. Dec 19, 2018 at 5:26 PM
    #26
    4X4Runner

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    The left coast
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    Sorry, totally forgot you said Colorado.
     
  27. Dec 20, 2018 at 4:32 PM
    #27
    grayflare

    grayflare New Member

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    Then use the $500 to let the dealer replace with Bilsteins. If you are disillusioned with Toyota over this you should trade for some other manufacturers vehicle, but I would NOT upgrade to a better suspension or you will be on their forum ragging their vehicle because it wore out after the warranty ran out and they didn't bend over backwards to replace everything. Warrantees are time/mileage WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, it does not matter how long you think it should last. That is like buying a pair of shoes with a year warranty and trying to get them replaced 2years after purchased because you don't think you walked far enough in them before they tore up. Just saying.
     
  28. Dec 20, 2018 at 8:37 PM
    #28
    Kyblack76

    Kyblack76 New Member

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    Gonna say the same , ...trade it in on another make.
     
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  29. Dec 21, 2018 at 11:36 AM
    #29
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

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    Yes, the 4Runner is not for you so move on.
     
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  30. Mar 3, 2019 at 10:26 PM
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    Tabascie

    Tabascie New Member

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    None yet.
     

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