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2018 Revisions

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by Clay, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. Apr 28, 2017 at 12:49 PM
    #1
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    There are a lot of rumors regarding changes to the 2018 4R. The major one is that the power train will be changed to something closer to the present Tacoma. Of course, nothing official from Toyota at this point. Question - Would a change of Engine and Transmission mean a 'Generation Change' ? Would this mean that it would become a Gen 6? I suspect that manufacturers often make changes (some big some small) with a change in model year and don't announce it ahead of time. There are those that will be opposed to the Tacoma's 3.5 with it's hockey-stick power curve wishing to stay with the present 4L that offers more power with less engine speed. Then there are those (Like me) that would appreciate anything that decreases fuel consumption before we pull the trigger and buy one. Anyone have any inside scoop? - Clay
     
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  2. Apr 28, 2017 at 2:12 PM
    #2
    jester243

    jester243 rabble rabble rabble

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    if it came with the same engine and transmission in the Tacoma then mine would be the last 4runner I would buy. That powertrain turned me away from the Tacoma, and with the added weight of the 4runner it seems it would be a slug at a stoplight, no thanks. Then again maybe they change nothing :notsure: If you like that combo have you looked at the highlander, I think that is what it has. Fuel efficiency is nice but it was honestly at the end of my want list when I looked at the 4runner
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  3. Apr 28, 2017 at 9:57 PM
    #3
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    I have a 2016 Tacoma - What makes this vehicle enjoyable to drive is the fact that I have a Manual Transmission. The new Tacoma's with an AT are criticized by many. Drivers feel disconnected. Some have suggested that it's too much emphasis on mileage and computer control of the transmission. My wife and I have driven the Highlander (and the RAV) and came away disappointed. Of course a manual is no longer offered in a 4R (sad). Our experience in driving the 2017 Runner SR5 was very positive. - Clay
     
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  4. Apr 29, 2017 at 12:57 PM
    #4
    topdec

    topdec New Member

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    I also looked at the 3rd Gen Tacoma after owning a 2nd gen for 5 years, but instead bought the T4R and I'm happy with the decision given the continuing issues with the Taco. I just had to invest in a bike rack and will invest in a hitch-mounted cargo platform since the T4R doesn't have a bed.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if the next T4R does get the same atkinson cycle engine, that Toyota has figured out how to make it more effective as a truck engine, and it benefits both the T4R and the Taco.

    If I was in the market for a T4R, I'd either get the 5th gen, or wait 2 years after the 6th gen comes out.
     
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  5. Apr 29, 2017 at 7:04 PM
    #5
    Krezz

    Krezz Doesn't want to be a new member

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    Our dealership has been told that 2018 will just be a carry over model.
    So I'm not expecting any curve-balls from Toyota.

    However, only they know for sure I guess. o_O
     
  6. Apr 29, 2017 at 7:14 PM
    #6
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    If the revision to the Tacoma for 2016 is any indication....The dealers are treated like 'mushrooms' up until the last minute....I was feeding my dealer/friend information long before he got it in house. I suspect that the folks on this forum will know more/sooner than the dealers.
     
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  7. Apr 29, 2017 at 7:15 PM
    #7
    Krezz

    Krezz Doesn't want to be a new member

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    We knew months before as to what the Tacoma was doing.
    Some dealerships don't read their bulletins however. LoL.

    If the dealer principal sucks, the sales teams and such don't receive the news.

    Rather I guess a year or so almost, as the Trade shows began to show stuff and autoblogs reviews.
     
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  8. May 1, 2017 at 3:57 AM
    #8
    JBTRD

    JBTRD Hunting, Fishing, Lovin' Everyday

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    If the 4runner gets the same drivetrain of the taco, a lot of loyal customers would leave the brand. However, i read somewhere (dont know if true or not) that the 4runner weight cannot support the taco drivetrain, but then why would toyota change the taco drivetrain and have two seperate drivetrains on the same truck.

    I personally think they should bring back the 4.0 in the taco, especially with latest recall that can stall your engine.

    Whole reason i went 4runner is beacuse i hates the taco drivetrain. We will see what toyota does IMO they ruined one truck lets hope they dont ruin two.
     
  9. May 1, 2017 at 6:18 AM
    #9
    Jean T

    Jean T New Member

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    I read somewhere that Toyota like to standardise theirs components used to build a car or a truck because by doing so they are making economy of scale. Thus savings. I think that Toyota want to use the same motor on as many model as possible to save on cost. A 3.5 motor than could be used on multiple models in Lexus and Toyota. So why keep a 4.0 on only one model?

    On my side I would like to see the same 4.0 motor with an improved transmission and an aluminium body ... I am dreaming I know!
     
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  10. May 1, 2017 at 6:29 AM
    #10
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    I have two friends that have the new Taco, both with Automatics - Now that they have had their computer programming changed (There is a TSB for this) they are much happier. One of the reasons Toyota changed was mileage. One of my friends sent me a picture of his mileage - 24.0 mpg. Don't believe the 4.0 would have delivered that. The CAFE issue is driving a lot of these changes. My 2016 Taco is just fine thankyou...Probably because I have a Manual and don't have a computer in the way of delivering what I want. Look at the Tacoma World Forum under Manual Transmissions...You will find a lot of happy campers. As for the latest recall - This involves loose bolts on the differential causing a loss of oil resulting in a locked-up-diff. Remember the Runner is made in Japan - the Taco is make either in Texas or Mexico. - Clay
     
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  11. May 1, 2017 at 11:23 AM
    #11
    TN_TRAIL

    TN_TRAIL New Member

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    oh the list....!
    The following is my opinion, based on experience.
    Mileage and energy consumption are (IMHO) misbegotten metrics to wholly use when purchasing ANY item. The laws of physics do not change to make our benevolent government happy. Thus there must be a trade-off. What WILL happen,(regarding autos) is that vehicles will be made lighter, given different powerplants/ drivetrains / body panels in order to achieve the writ of legislation, but the unintended consequences of this are: greater wear and tear on motors that spin faster (= less longevity) power trains that cannot take as much abuse or load carrying capability, and loyal customers that will invariably vote with their feet when the word gets out about such folly being foisted upon them. OR! buy the item and modify it BACK to a more durable form. (which will equate to lower fuel economy in most cases) The other side of this is the section of the population that WILL buy into this type of product, and accepts its reduced quality as 'normal', but most likely will not try to keep the product for the previous generations lifespan.
    So, IF I were in the market for a new 4R, and it was being sold with the Atkinson engine, I would pan it in a heartbeat. Similar thought, but different application: My Dad has a 38hp (diesel) HST Kubota tractor, that is a sweet little tractor, but unless you can keep the engine Revved up to the governed limit, it falls on it's face. My old Ford 3000 (gasser) will work circles around that Kubota. Why? The engine has lugging power, and the body/ driveline is more substantially made. Two different design criteria yielded two similar, yet completely different results. One is described as strength through materials (ford), and the other is strength through design (kubota). One more: I recently went through the process of researching and ultimately purchasing a new vehicle. My previous car is a '11 Subaru outback (3.6R) with 270K+ miles on the clock. What did I want? Another Subaru, of course! Then I found out that they had taken the regular automatic trans out and replaced it with the CVT, AND!!! to make the CVT "live" behind the 3.6, they detuned the engine, and therefore also reduced the cars towing capability as well. Why did Subaru make this change? Well, it is good economy of scale, AND it help them to achieve better fuel economy. However, their longevity is affected, as is their loyal customer base (of which I WAS one), and the name that they earned for the last what, 30+ years will be sullied. It will take several years for the outcome to be seen, but I can think offhand of several manufactures over the years that have made this mistake.
     
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  12. May 1, 2017 at 7:27 PM
    #12
    Bubblehead

    Bubblehead New Member

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    I agree. I just traded a 16 TRD Sport Tacoma for a 2016 SR5 Premium plus a grand. VERY disappointed with the new Tacoma (my 5th) So I found a dealer who would do this deal. Easy because both were paid off.

    Although I wish the 4Runner had the new Tacoma's dash and tech

    The top sales guy said Toyota may be discontinuing the 4Runner in America which is why they have yet to update the dash and tech interior. I don't believe it, they sell a lot of 4Runners.....I think the number was around 100K.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  13. May 1, 2017 at 9:18 PM
    #13
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    I agree with you, I don't see Toyota doing away with the 4Runner - Especially when all of their competitors have folded their tent and gone to uni-body construction etc. The other issue is fuel prices. If they were in the $5/Gal range....Maybe - But at half that, there are a lot of people that will just deal with the consumption. It has a lot to do with how you use it. My Wife and I are getting up in years and don't put on the number of miles we used to staying closer to home. I'd rather be behind the while of a T4R than something that people buy just for the mileage (like a Prius etc) My 2016 Taco is my 5th Toyota, first was a 1982. I fully understand the difference with the 3.5...Like I keep saying, it has a 'hockey stick power curve'. If I were using this truck for towing I'd have purchase a Colorado/Diesel. I go on mountain roads several times a week (work on broadcast transmission systems) but also drive a lot of freeways totally 25,000/year. On the open road, the Taco with the 3.5 and a Manual, is a lot of fun...Especially knowing I can put the 3.5 in it's sweet spot whenever I wish. The Runner will replace a 2010 Camry with an MT and will be primarily her vehicle (I will get to drive it, sometimes, on weekends) - Clay
     
  14. May 2, 2017 at 2:39 PM
    #14
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

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    I bought my wife a 4Runner last year, and have had a ton of fun with it. People like to compare the Tacoma and 4Runner, but they are actually very different. Built on other ends of the earth, 4Runner share a frame with the Land Cruiser and GX470, use a different version of the 4.0L engine than a Tacoma ever had (The Tacoma never had a Dual VV-Ti 4.0L), interior structure is different, rear axle is different, coil suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes...etc.

    My point is, the 3.5L in the Tacoma share more in common with the Highlander (like someone mentioned). As expensive as the Tacoma is, it's not a Premium vehicle. The 4Runner is a premium vehicle, and therefore, just like with other premium rides, they sacrifice fuel economy for ride quality, performance, and features.

    People compare Chevy's to Cadallaics, but even my mom's SRX (which one would say is derived from an Equinox) has a different, and larger motor than both Equinoxes, and is a LOT faster. The 4Runner will likely keep doing something different than the Tacoma because it can afford to make fewer compromises.

    At least that's the theory...

    If I was "waiting" for a revision to come out and not sure if I should buy now or later....I'd buy one now. They are pretty damn good as they sit, maybe as good as they will ever be even.... Who knows what the future brings. Go have fun now, don't sweat small details so much.
     
  15. May 2, 2017 at 4:19 PM
    #15
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    There are a lot of folks that recall when the 4-Runner and Pickup were indeed very similar and are shocked to hear that they are as you say. As for the Engines, It is also my understanding that they are sharing the 3.5 with the Highlander but not much else. This is my 5th Toyota Pickup (82,88,01,10) and is the best of the bunch. Yes, I purchase each one of these new and drove them well over 100,000 miles. My 01 now belongs to a friend and it's over 200,000 and still has the original clutch!. It is not far to compare the Taco with the 4R as they are (today) totally different vehicles.

    Having worked as an Engineer for over 50 years - I have learned (Occasionally the hard way) 'the Devil is in the details'. You can ask my local Toyota Sales guy (and friend) about this - He said that no-one ever digs into a vehicle as much as I do....I consider this a complement. - Clay
     
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  16. May 2, 2017 at 7:19 PM
    #16
    glandnut

    glandnut Reserve Collection Squirrel Hair

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    If they put the 3rd gen Taco powertrain in the 18' 4R, it will be the second swan song of the marque. You better believe Toyota is trying to cover their losses and gripes with the 3rd gen Taco, the bread and butter of the mid size truck market. Who the hell wants a lame 40k Colorado or a Frontier? I started looking into the 3rd gen when I decided to part with my 09' 2nd gen DCLB. It didn't take a rocket scientist to realize through forum research and seeing the amount of 16's getting traded back in what happened. Even more, I started to hunt a clean 2015 2nd gen, and they were scarce as hens teeth. I was not the only one with the same idea.

    I also echo the above sentiment that the 4R (especially my TEP) is a much more luxurious for the money in relation to the Taco. Am I thrilled to have spent closer to 40k for a truck with some nose dive and seats that make me sweat in April with crappy tires? The 4Runner is not perfect in stock form for many, it's well known.. But, I'd rather be spending money on springs and seat covers that trying to fix a powertrain that fails to deliver.
     
  17. May 11, 2017 at 12:57 PM
    #17
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    Interesting that there was, apparently, nothing about the 4R at the Chicago car show where Toyota showed a number of new things. Two thoughts come to mind - 1) There will be no changes to the 2018 - 2) There will not be a 2018 for the same reasons they dropped the FJ (CAFE Standards). Local dealers I've spoken with are completely in the dark as well.
     
  18. May 14, 2017 at 2:23 AM
    #18
    knowonecares

    knowonecares New Member

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    I'm a '98 Pre Runner lookin' to Graduate to the 4Runner. There's still some time in my Taco, but it's time to buy new, I don't think I can wait 6 months, let alone 2 years. I've got the money now, so I have to buy soon. Interested in the 2018 Engine Specs for the Toyotas. That will give me a direction on what to purchase. A turbo-diesel would be ideal. Anything except the current V6 Auto. The 5th Gen T4R Off Road TRD looks like a great vehicle, probably be a good buy this summer, whenever the '18s are announced. Would you buy a discounted '17 or spankin' new '18 with a diesel?
     
  19. May 14, 2017 at 12:08 PM
    #19
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    With almost 30,000 miles on my 2016 Taco - I understand what you say about the 3.5L Engine - I really have no problems with it...and find those that do all have automatic transmissions, those with Manuals do not. What is hard to understand (for some) is how to get around the fact that torque and power are at the higher end of the RPM/Power curve. Low speed 'grunt' it does not have to the degree desired by many. It is not a diesel! I too am looking seriously at purchasing a 4R as a replacement for our Camry. This is will be primarily my wifes ride. Test driving the 4R she loves it. I just don't see Toyota bringing their diesel to the U.S. They have made this very clear for some time. If they do, perhaps they would consider doing so with the Tundra due to the fact that it's offered by most of their competitors. Looking at the cost premium for the GM Pickup twins for the Diesel- it's pretty hard to justify. I really don't see them discounting the prices on the 4R - demand and sales are good...and they are (now) the only game in town. - Clay
     
  20. May 14, 2017 at 12:22 PM
    #20
    alext2280

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    I gotta agree with clay, you'd see a Diesel engine on the Tundra before a 4Runner. I'd venture to say Tundra then the Taco before the 4Runner
     
  21. May 14, 2017 at 12:50 PM
    #21
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    My wish-list for the 4R is pretty short (assuming they would revise it) - 1) Move the spare to inside the vehicle providing storage space for related items. 2) Put the same Entune radio with larger display for the camera etc as I have in my 2016 Taco. 3) Do what they have to do to increase the mileage a big, perhaps more gears for the transmission. Clay
     
  22. May 14, 2017 at 1:53 PM
    #22
    Jean T

    Jean T New Member

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    Few years ago I rented a Land cruiser Prado with a 3 liter diesel in Iceland on an overland trip. I have to tell you that the 4D motor is just amazing and powerful to drive and economical. It would be just wonderful to be able to use these motors on a 4runner

    The picture below is not from my trip but the truck is the same and the picture was taken in Iceland

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  23. May 14, 2017 at 2:01 PM
    #23
    knowonecares

    knowonecares New Member

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    Great insight gentlemen, other than daily driver, my hobbies involve camera equipment and expensive coolers, so I was looking to the 4R as a more secure traveler. But I'm torn with the Coolness of the new Tacoma as well, I was drawn to my '98 by the simple lines, it's been awhile since I've liked the newer gen's looks, a good problem to have in times like these :mudding:
     
  24. May 14, 2017 at 2:11 PM
    #24
    AZ4walker

    AZ4walker New Member

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    I will never own another Toyota vehicle with that crap Atkinson 3.5 tick box mounted in the engine compartment. I traded my 2016 Tacoma TRD Sport for my 2017 4Runner because of that noisy engine, and more importantly that piece of crap 6 speed auto transmission that "learns" your driving habits. What a joke. I was pulling a jet ski to the lake one day, making a left and an oncoming vehicle decided to run the yellow/red I smashed on the gas and nothing, I mean no acceleration of any kind occurred, at that moment I realized I have to get rid of this thing before it gets rid of me.
     
  25. May 14, 2017 at 6:06 PM
    #25
    Clay

    Clay [OP] New Member

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    And there are those that question the reason I love the Manual in my 2016 Tacoma. I prefer to manage this process rather than leave it to a computer. Sadly you can no longer get a manual in a 4R. When you leave the decisions to a computer - you often get mixed results. cf
     
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  26. May 14, 2017 at 6:12 PM
    #26
    alext2280

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    If I remember correctly my aunt and uncle both had 1st gen T4R s and they had the spare inside on the driver side and it ate up alot of storage room. I do wish the entune screen was a little larger and definitely better mpg, I'm getting 19.4
     
  27. May 14, 2017 at 6:40 PM
    #27
    Clay

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    I'm suggesting that rather than have the spare - under - the vehicle (Like the Tacoma) create a 'well' on the inside where the spare, jumper cables, tow strap etc could to housed out of the weather. This change would not reduce the amount of space on the inside - Clay
     
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  28. May 14, 2017 at 6:55 PM
    #28
    alext2280

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    Ya a well on the inside would be nice, I keep my jumper cables in a book bag along with some other miscellaneous car stuff
     
  29. May 15, 2017 at 10:29 AM
    #29
    jester243

    jester243 rabble rabble rabble

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    I got 16.1 on my last fillup :anonymous:
     
  30. May 15, 2017 at 2:06 PM
    #30
    JBTRD

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    Yea, i am only getting 14.3:(
     
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