New competition? At least it’s not a 4 banger

True. It's the same with Jeeps. But, I wouldn't personally want to drive a heavy, slow SUV if I didn't have a use for one.

Sure. I've never said that a Subaru can't get taken off-road. I've even said that a Subaru could probably handle the amount of off-roading that a lot of 4Runner owners will do.

But, there's no comparison in off-road capability. A Subaru would be completely useless for a lot of what I do with my 4Runner.

 

It’s not all about you.

 

Yes it is!

JK

It's come up a bunch that a lot of folks just want a rugged looking SUV. One could even argue that, if it weren't for that part of the market, they'd probably discontinue the 4Runner altogether.

 

True. There definitely aren’t enough real off-roaders out there to dedicate a vehicle to.

 

Majority of people, myself included, would consider these reliability issues.

 

Have any of you driven the new Passport Trailsport? If so how was it?

 

Lol. Ok.

 

I drove it when we were buying our CRV a couple months ago. It's actually pretty nice and smooth. I personally don't like the push button shifting. But the rest was actually smooth, confortable, technology there.

 

I didn’t know it had push buttons. I’m not a fan of that 1970’s fad crap.

 

Not a fan. Cuz I'm old and hate change! And a trampled lawn!

 

But everyone here says no one cares about 0-60 times whenever it is pointed out that the 6th gen hybrid is slower than the 5th gen.

 

I was expecting the buttons to be on the dash. That looks really dumb having it on the console.

 

I don't. I wasn't the one who brought it up.

 

I think so too. And i know it's training myself, but i just didn't like not having the stick there.

But to give a positive and not be a total downer, it does clean up the console.

 

I like the Passport. Really though they should just move it to a column stalk at this point like Benz.

 

Driving it was a dream. Just except that one Damn mental block i didn't like.

 

Interesting that you opined the Standard Outback is slow, yet it's only a few tenths behind the 6th gen IForce Max that is world renowned for its superior drive "feel" and olympic towing prowess, while in fuel economy it gets 26/32 in mpg in the base engine configuration.

I don't personally buy subarus but it is clear why many buyers prefer them and cross shop them heavily with the turbo 4 6th gen.

 

I assume you meant to quote me.

But, again, I don't give a shit. And, I'm not the one who brought it up.

 

I just think this looks sooooo much better.

 

Be nice if Toyota could take a page from Mazda here.

IMO the Taco, 4R, Tundra, and RAV4 dashes are dumpster fires.

 

Wish me luck. CX70 Turbo S.

 

I have no idea what Toyota wanted to do but I said it before and I will say it again here, seems like there wasn't so much a design team, as much as they all got together the night before the final design was to be approved and threw together a dash by committee.

 

That committee stuff never works. Try to be a jack of all trades and end up being the master of none.

 

Kind of like the kid that had 3 months to do their homework and waited till the night before it was due, LOL.

 

Cambridge Dictionary defines reliable this way:

Someone or something that is reliable can be trusted or believed because he, she, or it works or behaves well in the way you expect

Consumer Reports' reliability data is based on 20 potential trouble areas:

POWERTRAIN: A composite of engine, transmission, drive system, fuel system, and exhaust for any vehicle with an internal combustion engine. It is a composite of electric motor, EV battery, EV charging, and drive system for electrified vehicles. In cases of hybrids/PHEVs, it is a composite of a combination of these.

BUILD QUALITY: A composite of electric accessories, body hardware, paint/trim, and noises/leaks.

ENGINE, MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.

ENGINE, MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, fuel leaks, oil leaks.

ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.

ELECTRIC MOTOR: Electric drive motor rebuild or replacement or malfunction.

EV BATTERY: Hybrid/electric battery replacement, hybrid/electric battery malfunction, hybrid/electric battery cooling problems.

EV CHARGING: Charge connection problem, problem with onboard inverter, problem with the charging cable/cord that came with the vehicle. (Note: Charging problems reported by members are with the vehicle, not with home or public chargers.)

TRANSMISSION, MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, premature clutch replacement.

TRANSMISSION, MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.

DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control.

FUEL SYSTEM: Sensors (includes O₂, or oxygen, sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, problems filling up the tank.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, battery cables, coil or coil pack, ignition switch, electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires failure, auto stop/start.

CLIMATE SYSTEM: AC compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.

SUSPENSION: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.

BRAKES: Antilock system, parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear, regenerative braking.

EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.

PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling, or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.

NOISES/LEAKS: Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, seals and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.

BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), heated or cooled seats, heated steering wheel, seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect, door handle, fuel door or charge port door.

ELECTRICAL ACCESSORIES: 12-volt battery, cruise control, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12-volt power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start, headlights, automatic headlights, automatic wipers, wireless charging pad.

IN-CAR ELECTRONICS: CD player, rear entertainment system (rear screen or DVD player), radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g., Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors, Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, infotainment hardware replacement, software over-the-air fixes, head-up display.

...............

So it seems a common belief that reliability encompasses problems -- like rattles and failed seat fabric and entertainment systems -- that don't prevent you from driving the thing the way the carmaker intended.

But what about durability? This is what I think most 4Runner owners prize about their rigs.

Road and Track gives the following example to illustrate the difference between reliable and durable:

The W124 is not necessarily a reliable car. Not in the way that a brand-new Camry would be a reliable car. In fact, as someone who has owned multiple vehicles from the classic era of Mercedes-Benz, including a 560SL and a 190E 2.3-16, I can state with authority that none of those old Benzes are reliable as such. They are chock-full of complex and delicate feats of engineering that often go awry. The W126 560SEL is arguably the greatest luxury sedan in automotive history and there are plenty of them on the roads with a half-million miles or more, but I defy you to find one where all of the power features work.

4Runners are durable. But there have been failures in my 5 plus years of ownership. The thing went dead as a doornail twice after sitting for a few days. Bad battery you say? Well that would be considered a reliability issue per the common definition, but in my case I'm pretty sure it was the infotainment system running for hours or days after engine shutdown. After charging that battery on a charger I got 2-3 more years on it without a repeat, then replaced it proactively given the abuse it had gone through. What changed after the second incident was that I opted out of vehicle data sharing with Toyota. A battery is a consumable, but it shouldn't be consumed prematurely due to a software bug.

I've had the steering wheel shimmy and vibration issues caused by this thing's oversensitivity to wheel balance. That was on 17" TRD Pro rims from a Toyota dealer. On two sets of road-biased AT tires, Michelins and Pirellis, that were RoadForce balanced more than once. But I never had it on the stock 20" rims, now on its second set of tires, Defenders.

The leather on the driver's seat is puckering and looks thin. I've driven 37k miles. There's a squeak from somewhere around the third row.

Do these things sour me on the truck? Hell no. I think it's more reliable than the W124, and maybe almost as durable. I got it to have a very useful tool for a very long time. And I expect it will be. The drivetrain has been flawless. The body and frame seem robust. All the interior controls function as intended. No issues with the suspension either, despite being XREAS, and that should be considered a consumable like tires, brakes and batteries.

In short, the 4Runner is far from perfect but it's also a classic.