Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

Im not upset, I’ve just seen it for years on this forum and the Tacoma forum. The second someone mentions another brand having any type of clout the clowns come to the circus. I’m just here to stir the pot enough to keep the clowns going.

Just to be clear, I’m not calling you a clown, as you are obviously well read and put together complete and coherent sentences with evidentiary backing.

 

100%. The Braptor isn’t an off-road rig unless you truly enjoy beating the shit out of a $95k vehicle. Ford dropped the ball on the fender design and could’ve at least put a coyote 5.0 in it.

 

They should have done it. I am sure since it's a "low-volume" vehicle they would've been fine with CAFE standards.

 

I got very good at backing out of trails during my first couple of years off-roading.

I went to an area known for trails with a map, and started driving down every shitty looking road I came across. Every now and then, I'd get a few hundred yards in and find a big ass mud pit, and no room to turn around.

There's definitely some fan-boyism on both forums. I'm sure I come across that way at times, but I try to be fair.

I've also accepted that Toyota just doesn't do anything really exciting, pretty much ever. I was so excited when they said they were bringing back the Supra, and so disappointed when I found out it would be a reworked BMW. I've pretty much accepted that if I ever buy a Japanese sports car, it'll probably be a Nissan.

Yeah, the V8 would be nice in that. The turbo V6's make good power. But, they still sound like V6's

 

Nah, you’re one of the OG’s on here and put up good debates.

Dude, the Supra’s return was such a massive disappointment. It doesn’t even deserve to have the name.

I’ve heard mixed things about the Nissan 400Z. I want it to be as good as the 300Z was back in the 90’s but I think that’s a stretch.

 

I appreciate that.

The 400 looks really nice! Honestly, I would be very happy in a 370. I understand they have some flaws, but I really like the way they look. Having never owned anything that was actually fast, 332 hp would probably be more than enough to keep me entertained. And, there's always the Stillen option if I got bored. I might really look into a Z when the 4Runner is paid off.

 

Nissan’s problem isn’t the mechanical stuff, it’s the cheap ass plastic shit everywhere else. Door handles breaking off, etc.

 

I like BMWs too... so the Supra is just a chef's kiss to me.

 

Gross

 

To add fuel:

Ford annual sales worldwide in 2023 = 4.4 million vehicles, revenue = $176.2 billion.
Toyota annual sales in 2023 = 11.2 million vehicles, revenue = $274.9 billion.

 

It would best interesting to limit the sales and revenue only to regions where both companies compete head-to-head.

 

Most dealers will sell a new Taco or 4R with better tires; you just have to pay for them. Last two tacos we bought were delivered with 10-plies.

 

"10 ply" tires aren't necessarily better tires. Sometimes they even have less siping than their SL counterparts, making them less grippy. Plus, they're heavier so fuel economy and ride quality can suffer.

There's no real reason to put E's on a 4Runner unless you really need the extra puncture resistance, or the tires you're getting are only available in that load range.

 

Ahh ok, cool. Thanks.

 

All brand specific forums are fanboy sites. That is their very nature. Go look at bimmerfest or Audizine or any one of the 100s of Honda boards.


re: the BMW engine in the Supra, check this out before you make up your mind:
https://youtu.be/FeuGP6MB7XU?si=5nywyuwbHOtxwPUE

The BMW straight 6 is a jewel of an engine mechanically. Their Achilles heel has always been the electronics (coils, fuel pumps, injectors, etc) and the garbage plastic parts in the cooling system. I always thought if somebody could build one up swapping all the Bosch/Continental components for Denso and rebuilding the cooling system with all metal it wouldn't be half bad.

Ive had the chance to drive M3s and S4s over the years. If budget was no object and I didn't care about reliability those would be my first 2 choices for fun every day street car.


..

Funniest part is I am not a Toyota fanboy for any other reason than reliability. I'm actually much more a Honda fanboy, we he had more than I can count.... and they are always more fun to drive and sorry guys but Honda is the better engine designer, not more reliable, but they can positively work magic with highly tuned N/A. I used to be a "if its a family hauler buy a Honda, if you need a truck buy a Toyota" house but unfortunately Honda reliability is slipping also - we have had significant engine problems with two Pilots in a row now (valves on the '08, and failed injectors on the '17) We have pretty much decided we wont be buying a 3rd Pilot when the mrs. gets tired of the '17.


If somebody dropped this off in my driveway I'd be set for life with it and my 5th gen

 

Re: S2000

Still kicking myself for not buying one when I had a chance. It was on my short list, and I turned it down because I didn't like soft top latch mechanism/setup.

 

People have been making 1000+ hp with 2JZ's and even 1JZ's for decades. There's a reason people swap them into everything.

I'm sure the BMW engine is fine. I don't even have anything against BMW. I just can't get excited about a BMW platform wearing a Supra badge.

There are fans, and then there are fanboys. Most of the people here are fans. We can admit that Toyota isn't perfect.

 

I see we've turned this into another Supra / BMW thread; nice work everyone.

I agree on Honda and their engines. They don't make many exciting cars anymore, but even their family haulers are fun to drive. We used to have an MDX, tons of interstate punch for a 7-seater, vtec is no joke.

I considered a Ridgeline when I was shopping for a Tacoma replacement, but ironically I'd heard some reliability complaints about late model Hondas, especially with the newer transmissions (but mostly electronic issues), so we decided to stick with what we knew. Like the 2g Taco, to me the real reliability benefit of the 4Runner is it's fairly easy to wrench on.

 

Has any good thread ever really stayed on topic?

 

THIS is something that some people have difficulty grasping. It's the nature of a conversation that the subject changes. We do it verbally all the time. If a thread drifts too much for me, I just look elsewhere.

 

When the AP1 first came out I was like 25, and couldn’t realistically justify even the relatively modest $30k price tag. Plus having a 2 seat RWD as my only car was not practical in the snow belt.

 

Honda has never been quite as bulletproof as Toyota. The 95 civic and 2003 RSX we had where bulletproof but pretty much every other Honda we have had going back to my dad first 77 Civic has had at least some kind of issue. But they never, ever stranded us.

the V6 automatics had a run of problems and Honda reformulated the fluid like 3 times. It’s tricky because the Honda auto is unique, it’s actually an automated spur gear manual- no planetaries or band clutches. So they need more frequent fluid changes and specialized fluids.

I also had no interest in the Ridgeline because it’s not actually a truck. It’s unibody like the Maverick and the AWD system is a front wheel drive with a power takeoff to rear wet clutch electronic differential. It’s the same system as the Pilot and MDX, great on road but it’s nothing like a true 4x4 for off-road.

 

Ridgeline is unappealing to me as well, as was the Chevy El Camino from the 80s. I think they're aimed at a similar customer. They seem to sell plenty, though.

 

100% Honda builds the better engines.

Man, I miss my S2000. Absolutely loved that thing. Unfortunately it was stolen from the airport parking lot back in 2005.

 

Flawed designs? Listen to what the mechanics say. Some bad designs to avoid:

Ford 5.4L 3V
Dodge 5.7L Hemi
Ford 3.5L V6 FWD
Mercedes M273 V8 pre-2009

The list goes on and on.

 

Yup. Nothing wrong with it. Usually they get back on track after the side conversations.

It seems like their four cylinders are pretty Bulletproof, but they tend to burn oil eventually.

Are you just speaking from a performance perspective?

From what I've seen, they are generally pretty bulletproof. But I've never seen anything to suggest that they are better than Toyota.

 

Yeah, performance wise. Toyota is afraid of putting any power into their vehicles, it seems, and keeps it all for the Lexus products.

 

I'll trade power for durability every time.

 

If supercharged 2GR-FE is good enough for Lotus, it's good enough for our trucks. 400 reliable horsepower would be something.

 

I agree completely.

Is it too much to ask for both? Toyota has the capability to do it, they just don’t.