Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

I think Ford interior quality is one of the best last time I looked. Interior quality was always a big plus for me with Toyotas. The 4th gen had that grey rat fur cheap looking from a distance even. The cloth in 1st, 2nd, 3rd was better than the leather and you see the quality. My dad was a rural letter carrier and I remember several different years of 302s and cut rear wheel wells. Learned to drive in one.

 

32 gallon tank and bumpers you could straighten against a tree. 4wd actuator could be aggravating. My 84 Prospector SE was best one. Built in Canada. 86 was good but a little rusty and 93 the last year was the nicest, best running and worst one ever. Mexican steel rusting, ball joint eyes on drive shaft worn oblong, ball joints almost pushed in by hand. It was really nice inside though. 15 mpg and Magnum motor. I guess that hooked me on SUVs but you could climb in the back, turnaround, change clothes, relax in back seat and never get out.

 

I did other things in the back of the one I drove as teenager

 

They are. I had a rental Ford Explorer last year and that interior was just a chef's kiss.

 

Wow, it's starting to sound like a Ford circle jerk in here. Do you guys want some privacy?

 

Hey no need to kink-shame

 

Just observation. I'm all Yota, but to prevent walking I can adapt to anything for a while. I like the makes I know most about as little as that is. I wouldn't know where to start anywhere else. Except maybe a GMC. They still make a real truck and they always look better than the Chevrolets. Especially now. Looks like shrinkflation.

 

I guess you didn’t actually read my post where I said that Toyota obviously doesn’t care about and isn’t trying to compete with the rock crawler market. Maybe you didn’t realize this but 90% of buyers out there don’t have access to something like Moab so for many of us it doesn’t actually matter. I see a lot of Broncos around me, even a not insignificant number of Sasquatch packages and I doubt there is any terrain within 1000 miles that would really challenge it. I would rather have my lowly little 4R and actually use it to its limits than spend $80k to drive around as a poser.

But to each his own. one more time I will say it- congrats on your new Bronco and I wish you well with your Fords.

 

I did read your post and yes it is obvious that Toyota no longer cares about a huge US market they once competed very well in. It’s just sad.

You have amazingly rugged terrain not very far from Boston in New Hampshire and Vermont. Lots of great trails and stuff to go see.

 

What I question is “anymore”. Did Toyota ever intend for the IFS 4Runner to directly compete with CJs, Wranglers, or classic solid axle Broncos, Blazers, Scouts, Land Rovers?


I don’t know. Rock crawling was never my thing.

 

I'm not sure it's really a "huge US market" that they're missing out on. The amount of people who will actually push a Wrangler, Bronco, or even 4Runner to its limits is probably pretty insignificant compared to the folks who buy these things for light off-roading, or just because they look cool.

Also, based on what I've seen people do in stock, or mostly stock Tacos and 4Runners, they're plenty capable for most of the market.

 

+1. What I’ve done with mine so far stock is fun and more than enough for me, especially on a daily driver that has to get me to work the next day.

if I where to get something to do that kind of crawling it would have to be a weekend only toy- which means used and cheap and easy to mod. Probably classic Wrangler.

I simply don’t have the space or income for a fleet of brand new trucks, even on a tech/software income. Curious what trident does for a living .

 

I did but it was late with little sleep and I wasn't absorbing much. Your right they aren't crawlers. I didn't realize it was so rocky here just moving 40 miles. They are meant to appeal to a more broad audience and satisfy a larger customer base. I just like the starts and runs everytime. Everything else is icing to me.

 

Yes, this is correct

 

Can you send me some trails?

I've only done PA and south Jersey, ofc NY sucks.

 

Potts Mountain, WV is so much fun.
In NH and VT, forest service roads that aren’t in popular areas are usually pretty cool.
If you can make the time to do it, plot out a route on one of the apps that keeps you off as much pavement as possible and go do it. A lot of the NF land has free dispersed camping and it’s so much better than being in a campground. Stay for a night and go find the next night’s spot.

I tend to just go places and explore. I try to avoid the off road parks and OHV areas because of the asshattery that comes along with a some of the park dwellers. Just get out and get yourself good and lost. It’s a blast.

I use the Gaia app and the OnX app to find stuff. I’ll go for 3 or 4 days usually and just drive around the woods and mountains to see what I can find. Sometimes it’s super cool stuff that requires some brain power and other times I don’t even need to use 4wd, but either way, I’m not sitting on my couch starting at the TV, I’m out seeing what there is to see.

 

Maybe I’m not explaining it properly. Toyota offers very mild offroad capability with their true 4wd vehicles (4R and Taco) that require a lot of expensive upgrades to go beyond that very mild tone. Ford is absolutely stomping Toyota’s dick in the dirt with the Bronco Sasquatch line and Ranger/F150 Tremor lines because you can go into the dealership, buy one, and go straight to an off-road park and play as hard as you want to. Toyota does not and offers nothing off the lot without street tires on them. And no, the Pro does not come with legit all terrain tires or a skid plate that is actually worthy of being called a skid plate.

 

Check out The Pilgrimage overland event and group on FB. They do a big event in VT in Oct, and do other runs throughout the year. The group is also a great source for info on the VT class 4 roads that range from stock Subaru to buggy trail.

 

Even after they've been emasculated by Fords?

 

?? I must have missed the joke. All makes are welcome, but the guys on Mogs basically show everyone else up. Hard to beat a 500:1 crawl ratio and 4 foot tall tires.

 

No joke, just a bunch of people upset because this thread isn’t praising Toyota as the greatest vehicles ever created.

 

The joke is in all the Ford posts, which have now explicitly reached the point of using such language. (See for example #457, right above yours).

 

I understood what you were saying. I just don't think it's a "huge" market

Yes, we all understand that the Bronco and Wrangler are way more capable off the lot. But, a huge percentage of the people who buy Broncos and Wranglers are never going to come close to pushing them to the limit.

While I agree that it would be nice if the so-called PRO and Trailhunter trims came with some real off-road upgrades, it doesn't seem like Toyota is really interested in going after that market. I'm not sure why. But, they're not stupid. If they wanted to compete with the Bronco, they would.

I do agree that the so-called PRO skid plates are a joke.

 

That is not my position, actually. However, I'm not talking smack merely because somebody made a different choice than I did.

 

Also to point out, nobody here is saying Ford is excellent or better than Toyota; I'm just merely pointing out that Ford and others will be eating Toyota's lunch, not because of the reliability factory, but price.

Hell, even the Frontier Pro-4X is a better buy than the 4th gen Taco and 6th gen 4R Pro/Trailhunter at this point.

... I can't stress this enough: reliability isn't an absolute must for most car buyers. Hell, I'd even go further and say, people who buy these off-road trucks buy them for their cool factor... let's face it, anything Raptor or TRX is way cooler than anything TRD...

 

I don't disagree. I was pretty surprised when the Tacoma pricing came out. Between that and high interest rates, I don't expect those top trims to sell very well. And, the fact that you're forced into a hybrid with all of the higher trims makes it even less appealing to some.

I can only partially agree here. Sure, they're all super capable. But, can we at least admit that the Braptor is ugly?

 

I wasn't trying to rock crawl myself, but was a learning my trim limits and rocks hidden under bushes. Sixteen point turn in middle of a trail I hadn't been on.

 

You seem to be more upset than anyone else here. And I haven’t seen anyone here praising Toyota as the best thing ever.


I’m out…. We are just going in circles now. Maybe I’ll go drive our Honda

 

I agree, even if I had the money I wouldn't get it. In my area, literally the upper class are buying these and of course, NEVER go off-road. They're all detailed, waxed, and shiny pavement princesses.

 

Haha! No surprise there.