Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

I actually edited my comment to reflect the fact that all of this stuff is above my level of education.

Regarding dumping in rivers - It's wild to think how disgusting our rivers were, not really that long ago!

 

The government requires seatbelts in cars, and airbags, etc.

Adding safety features costs manufacturers money.

Without safety features, manufacturers can't sell cars in the US.

So, safety features are one limiting requirement to sell the first car.

Selling cars is necessary for an automaker to make money, so...

Meeting the compulsory safety requirements (or emissions, or any other governmental requirement) is absolutely about making money.

The corporation doesn't necessarily care about your well-being, they care about making money. Even those automakers like Subaru and Volvo, who make passenger safety part of their image through engineering and marketing, do so because that resonates with people they want to buy their cars. (I.e., it leads to more sales, and more money). There are different approaches, but the end goal is always to make more money (for profit-based corporations).

The government controls the playing field and the bounds of the game, but within those bounds, it's all about the money.

 

Anyways, we need to get some of the recent Ranger Raptor converts in here, so we can get back on topic:

Them telling us how they're happy with the deal and performance, and us telling them they won't make it home from the trail, or grocery store or something.

 

lol

 

It’s actually funny, I have been in long investment committees and have spent a decent amount of time in Japan more recently because of deals over there, and nearly shot coffee out of my nose when I heard the sound byte “well the company and its executive team worries that a tie-up would result in them having to maximize shareholder value…” So I would not take for granted that maximizing profits is always the most important goal of a company (it is in the U.S.). In fact, I would argue that in large part, what has made Toyota unique vs. the large domestic makes, is owing to its culture historically, and that is also imbued with plenty of Japanese ethos that prizes the contract between employee and company in a way that pure bottom line doesn’t incent. Everybody here clamoring for Japanese made vs U.S. made product is onto something, even if they don’t actually know what the underlying cause is. People over there have historically worked very hard for a company knowing the company will look out for them as well and not be subject to the short-termism that is rampant here. In Japan, most workers, regardless of how menial or not-serious seeming their job may be, will usually work very hard at being the very best at or super diligent in FILL IN THE BLANK. Even if that means being the best damn luggage handler the world has ever known or the best damn soft serve cone slinger in history. Toyota shipping a mostly fully built car manufactured and assembled in Japan to the U.S. market is not bottom line driven.

 

Ok buddy

 

I wonder why toyota doesn't just build all of their vehicles in Japan?

 

I assumer labor in Japan isn't cheap at all, probably as much as union workers in USA... and also shipping adds to it.

 

A lot of it IS the cost of shipping completed vehicles. Lots of auto companies worldwide build local final assembly factories in each region. GM has a plant in China just to make China market Buicks. Ford has a plant in England to make English fords. All the major European brands have North American plants. Etc. etc.

 

Oh so they are a for profit company!

 

I never said they weren't, all I'm saying is they're jacking up prices wayyyyyyy too much to the point where they're pricing themselves out of a small niche. If do end up buying a truck later on which I will need, def will look elsewhere.

 

nothing in comparison to other places of the world who dont mind dumping in rivers
and i mean that literally.... Their johns are built into the side walk of bridges and they take dumps and it drops down a hole into the water below.
Google street view is nuts, the more you look around this place the worse it gets.

 

Airbus at the time of the design of the A380 was consumed with having their own "747" to compete with Boeing. Even when the airlines were obsessed with ordering smaller airplanes, Airbus marched on. The airlines were telling Airbus salespeople that they didn't want an airplane that big. Boeings 747 orders and sales slowed to a trickle. The clues were there, but Airbus wasn't listening. The only airline that was somewhat successful with the A380 was Emirates, and that was really because of the world location of their home hub.

 

Right. That’s what I was getting at. It’s not economically motivated for them to make and then ship an entire car over from Japan. For Land Cruiser and 4Runner historically, they didn’t ever make them elsewhere even if it would have made more sense ($$$) to make them in a plant in their purchaser market, particularly 4Runner since it’s a U.S. model.

 

Not sure you could say that Boeing "bought" McDonnell Douglas since the last true Boeing CEO at the time of the merger was Phil Condit. I believe it was Harry Stonecipher that took over at the completion of the merger - and he and the McDonnell Douglas board took over Boeing. Just like they did with McDonnell Douglas, these same people set out to run Boeing into the ground. And the famous engineering staff that WAS Boeing and made Boeing what it was were no longer listened to, and no longer had a say. The original Boeing 777 was the last Boeing airplane - and a fantastic airplane it is / was. Then came the 787 - and the debacles have continued since. The other problem at the top of Boeing (post merger) was the number of CEOs and board members from General Electric under Jack Welch. GE was in a downward spiral and has been until only recently. And Boeing has a string of CEOs from Jack Welch tutoring, and the Boeing downward spiral continues...

 

As MentourPilot said, McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money.

 

There you go. And the damage was done and continues.

 

I correct myself and Limited probably won't go everywhere because of trim. I tested on trail today and found my limits, otherwise it seems like it will climb a tree. Everyone likes what they like and that's fine. I did find skidder trails nobody had been up.

 

Head to head, the Bronco Wildtrak and Ranger Raptor absolutely destroy the 4Runner and Tacoma Pro trims in every category. I drove one of each today at an event and was actually surprised at how easily the off the lot Bronco and Ranger Raptor did the obstacles my very well built 4Runner did. The Bronco I drove had the Ford Performance tune from the dealership and it makes the same power the Bronco Raptor makes.

This is where Toyota is failing IMO. Toyota isn’t competing on the level Ford and Jeep are competing on. I know you all will say “Toyota reliability” but in this day and age, how many consumers are keeping their Toyotas for 5, 10, or 20 years? Not as many as you would think.

 

The Rubicon also destroys the 4Runner and Taco off-road. Always has. I don’t think Toyota has any interest in competing for the hard core rock crawling crowd - they certainly sell enough of the current formula.

 

What a clown statement.

I’ve been around the automotive adventure world for a very long time and have owned them all. My words come from experience, not from a sippy cup of Toyota flavored koolaid.

I did actually order a Bronco today to add to my stable. It’ll go nicely with my F150, 2 Mustangs, iS500, and 4Runner.

That’s just the thing, Jeep does win in the rock crawling category, but look and the design on the Bronco and 4Runner as well as the Taco and Ranger. All IFS but the Ford products walk circles around the Toyota stuff right off the lot. Toyota doesn’t offer a ready to go off the lot legit wheeler that’s capable of real wheeling, not the hard packed dirt road driving that most of the people on here do. Ford does. Toyota is blind to the real adventure vehicle market and will see reduced number from the non koolaid drinkers that are buying based on what you get for your money. Ford beats Toyota in that market. Toyota is running out of stuff to offer and these new gens are more mall suited than rugged.

 

You know, I really did, and I will enjoy it.

 

Congrats. Hope you enjoy the Bronco.

I’ll stick with the 4Runner because I’m not wealthy enough to afford the half dozen cars you have, and one Toyota is more than capable enough for what I do. You can feel free to call that wimpy if you want, but it’s enough for me.

 

It’s not wimpy at all. I love my 4Runner because it’s as basic and simple as it gets, and it’s not going anywhere, it will serve its purpose as an off grid long haul “rock lander” which is what I built it to be.

Everyone has their vehicle that suits their needs, my point here is that, again, the koolaid drinkers that think Toyota is the greatest thing since sliced bread are too blind to see how far behind the the competition Toyota actually is in their respective vehicle market be it 4R vs Bronco or Ranger vs Taco. Toyota has been getting out of the rugged vehicle business for a while and catering to the “we want to look like we do offroad shit” crowd. The 2nd gen Taco and 5th Gen 4Runners were Toyotas last true rugged vehicle designs for the US market.

 

That 2 door Bronco should go places as small and short wheel base. A body could drive circles around a tree.

 

Domestic have always offered more buttons, bells and whistles whether it really worked or not. Toyota quality has really suffered. A lot because most are American made but even the Japanese built seem to be arriving sub par. I would still take the Toyota from my experience with different makes. Look around at a red light. I liked the Mitsubishi outlander but you don't see a 5 year old model at the red light. Domestic last but you usually have to replace something or several if not major. I don't think people who drive domestic put the miles on like Toyota people. There's good and bad in all and Toyota is getting into the replacement business now with no real maintenance to sell. I wonder if they have been lasting to long and it's time to be pushed into electric. Parts that used to be rebuilt are replaced now with OEM online parts at competitive prices. I loved my Ram hemi at 25mpg, but transmission repair. 5 different models and none of them good. Quality wasn't comparable with a Toyota, but it's a hemi. If I needed a real truck now it would be a Ram Cummins. That's only other make I have really driven. Toyota was going to have a diesel Tundra until 2008 hit.

Rangers have been good trucks in the past. Technology and emissions have created more problems. Toyota has always been slower to implement because it affects reliability until proven. A lot of their reliability came from just fewer models and options, fewer problems.

Darn soccer ball jumped me first thing.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Toyota has always had the reliability thing, always. But, even that is falling short nowadays like you said. There’s a reason why my 4R is my long haul off the grid trip machine. It will not leave me stranded miles from nowhere. Do I have that type of faith in my V8 F150? Yes. It gets me to and from Home Depot, the golf course, or wherever else I choose to go with it, but I’m sure as hell not going to take it off grid somewhere simply because it’s too expensive of a truck to be doing that with. Could I and be just fine? Absolutely.

As far as the reliability thing goes I think some of the other manufacturers are catching up as competitors to Toyota.

 

They all do something in a different way with different advantages and disadvantages. The platform sharing creating is creating a 4runner car that appeals to more people. 3rd row might not have happened if not shared with GX. Myself I like simple for reliability. I liked my straight axle Ramchargers. I love them because can drive all week and not have to maintain on weekends. They don't do anything exceptionally great except last with even hap hazard maintenance yet they are because of it. They aren't for everyone. These are not the quality of the older generations, but it's better than any 4wd I have had yet with what it can do. I've never had all these 4wd options. Just a big lever in the floor board. I had to pretend with the other options.

 

I loved those old Ramchargers. Ugly as sin and made of cast iron it seemed, but they were cool as hell. Hard to find one these days that isn’t a crumbling pile of rust.

 

I don't really think this is true. I think lot of people realize that a 4Runner or Taco will do as much or more than they're interested in doing. Not everyone's version of off-roading involves hardcore rock crawling or high speed desert racing. My guess is that Toyota is planning on selling Tacos and 4Runners to those people.