Saw My First 6th Gen In Person

Another feature aimed at commuters so they can save another few gallons a year over 20-30k miles. On a 4Runner.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/11/19/reviewed-car-tech-efficiency/3637645/

 

I don’t think it’s really supposed to be looked at from a single driver perspective. It’s the aggregate reduction in pollutants and fuel consumption that the company can tout for marketing purposes and used for calculating fleet averages.

 

Ram sells about half a million trucks per year. So 500,000 * 3.6 gallons =1,800,000 gallons of gas saved per year. Extrapolate that over all automobiles sold in the US each year and that number gets much, much greater.

It’s just an instance where percentages look small while the actual total can be quite meaningful.

At least that’s how I view it. But at some point all that complexity comes with a cost elsewhere.

 

Even though those numbers seem big when compared to the 100s of billions of gasoline that the US uses per year it’s really not much at all. Also some of these fuel saving features like the active grille shutters may use more energy to manufacture than they even save.

 

This is what I mean when I say these features weren’t necessary they sold out to the mob.
*when I called Toyota a sell out about this before, folks got their back up and said that’s not what selling out means. But that’s something a fellow sell out would say

 

Fair point. Production to end of vehicle life usage analysis would need to be done to know for sure.

And even though I am wary of things like active grill shutters, they are far less complicated than say cylinder deactivation which probably nets about the same relatively small savings percentages.

 

The sheer absurdity of it all is such that, all that complexity is done so people can get 21mpg instead of 20mpg to drive their 50-80k SUVs or trucks to work, when 40-50 mpg cars are readily available from Toyota for under 25k.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how Toyota doing what they need to do to make their vehicles meet Cafe requirements makes them a sellout.

 

I’m implying the mob is Cafe requirements and the like

 

Agree 100%. I can understand wanting an SUV or CUV for ease of entry and egress, but the number of people commuting to work in full size land yachts or heavy duty pickups boggles my mind.

“Bigger is better” advertising works well on Americans, despite the negative monetary impact on their finances.

 

True. If every suburban dad didn't need a full size truck to commute to his desk job every day, we could probably save a lot more fuel and resources.

 

The car companies don't create these requirements. The government does.

 

Even the ultimate Toyota fan boy is starting to give the other brands some attention. The interior of the Honda looks so much nicer than Toyota.

https://youtu.be/yGAgeSoYg00?si=JeC-AuhkGt503gaI

 

It’s become too expensive to own and insure multiple vehicles so if you need a truck or suv for your hobbies then that’s what you are driving to work too.

 

Good point

 

I think most people like the idea of hobbies, but in reality use those vehicles once or twice a year for those intended purposes. But they still buy them nonetheless.

Forums like this skew that statement but represent only a small percentage of overall buyers.

 

My next-door neighbor is the perfect example. He’s a single guy who has been renting the house for eight years now. He drives a full size Ram pick up truck with a hemi V8. He never tows anything, never goes off Roading, and never uses the bed for anything.

In reality, he’d be much better served with a Toyota Corolla or a Honda Civic. But it just doesn’t provide the image that he wants to project. But it’s his money.

 

right
It’s a race to the bottom all in the name of MPG i’m just saying, I don’t think it’s necessary to sell the 4R

 

Driving a heavy truck or SUV daily just for a hobby seems...expensive too. Depreciation is a real thing with rapidly accumulating miles on high dollar hobby vehicles. 15k miles a year adds up quick after a few years in depreciation, gas, maintenance, wear items, etc.

 

The insurance alone on a commuter car pretty much cancels out any savings on fuel.

 

In reality, we can fall prey to the "next-door neighbor" syndrome referenced earlier. Or what I would say is captured early in the movie FIGHT CLUB when the main character has a discussion with Tyler Durden about consumerism and what of his stuff best defines him as a man. Each individual has to evaluate based on a variety of factors such as preference, practicality and price... to name a few. But at the end of the day is anyone is getting value out of gear, vehicles and the like it will be an endless pursuit to satisfy with no end in sight.

TRD Jon says in that review that the Honda Passport is good for 90% of buyers - that is a high number but since I test drove one last week I can say that is probably true. The local Honda dealer had a 2025 4R SR5 that was preordered and then after only 100 miles the owner came in an immediately traded it for the Passport, and the same was true of a 2025 Land Cruiser on the lot. So there is some traction with rugged cross-over vehicles. And it has the vibe of a Honda Element and Pilot - both of which I liked - so the fact I can store my MTB and gravel bikes inside is a huge win. I traveled to WV (Canaan Valley and Dolly Sods) to ride and it poured for three days straight - so to have had the option to store my MTB upright inside would have been nice.

I really enjoy my 2023 4Runner, but cannot deny that the Honda Passport have way more room to haul kids, dogs and gear for me locally in Western PA. I am also making this evaluation base on what could be best for excursions such as ski slope pickup, car camping (way more room in the passport with seats folded down), MTB hauling, and entry and exit for aging family members (the 4R is no bueno on that). I'm not there yet in terms of parting with my 4R, but can easily see the appeal for many buyers...

 

It seems like Honda put a lot more effort into the use ability of their vehicle versus just trying to make it look cool like Toyota did.

 

Jesus. I bought my beach house for $80K in 2013.

 

Seeing a lot more of these in my area than 2025 4Runners. Not sure how I feel about them so far.

No regrets in buying the 2024 4Runner.

 

I have a friend that ordered an F250 diesel back in 2016 with no trailer hitch. He lived in an apartment and was a single guy at the time. He ordered it without a trailer hitch to save money and when i questioned him about it he said
"i aint ever gone tow a trailer so i figured i'd save money ordering it without it"
He wanted the truck to look big, he has since owned about 5 or 6 of them, he normally keeps them about two years and trades out for a new one. Its all about the image for him, not the functionality or fuel mileage.
He now has a house, a kid, a wife, and still has an F250. He works for the gubbamint and sits at a desk all day. It wont ever have a shovel in the bed or a tool box full of tools.

 

Unless you are a terrible driver, adding an economical sedan or small crossover is very cheap for a person with existing policy on something like a 4Runner. Ours was like an extra 70 dollars a month for our 2025 sedan.

If I was driving 15k a year, gas along would save me more than 2-3 times the cost of the insurance and registration of a brand new small car. Then we have paying extra for the AT tires(can't have all seasons now can we) tires on a truck or SUV, the brakes, transmission service, diff service,transfer case service, driveline parts, what have you. Everything on a BOF Offroad oriented SUV costs a lot more per mile than a vehicle optimized for highway efficiency, that's just the way it is.

Then the depreciation, 100k on a 25k sedan depreciates it far less than 100k on a 70k 4Runner. I bet 100k miles on a 4Runner costs the owner about as much as a whole economy car on depreciation alone.

compare the 5 year cost to own between a 2024 4runner

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/4runner/2024/cost-to-own/

and a say, corolla hybrid

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/4runner/2024/cost-to-own/

The cost of ownership is a whopping 26k more with a 4runner if owner drives it 15k miles a year, with fuel being a 3x multiple on the 4R. The difference for 6th gen will be even bigger with most trims being 10-15k more now to purchase compared to the previous gen. 26k is coincidentally the price of a Corolla hybrid. Adding a small car will further increase the gap since additional cars don't incur as much insurance cost per vehicle as the first one.

 

Can you imagine what the people who drive Mercedes and Cadillac think when they buy a new vehicle and trade it in 4 years later and have lost 60% of the sticker price. Its absolutely nuts how fast the standard line of BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac depreciate.

Example, a 2021 Mercedes S 580 was $115-$120K depending on options
That vehicle with 35,000 miles is currently worth $63,000
That vehicle has depreciated a whole new 4runner in 4 years.

Example, a 2020 Cadillac CT6 was $60-$75k depending on options
That vehicle with 70,000 miles is currently worth $32,000
That vehicle has depreciated a whole upper trim level Rav4 in 5 years.

 

Yep, even with residual value champs like Tacos and 4Runners, 100k miles on the clock makes a huge dent in the value of the car. 40% depreciation on a Camry sounds bad but it's only 10k. 30% on a 65k 4runner(which is common now) is almost 20k. All for what? Go to Moab once every two years? camping trips? I say people should buy whatever they want but at the same time, driving that 4R for commuting 15-30k a year makes my head hurt from running the operating cost per mile times annual mileage in my head, to me it is bizarre to spend 10-20k a year on commuting by most of the buyers who can't even pay cash for their car. IRS per mile rate is now 70cents a mile.

In most populated states a person making 100k a year takes home about 63k a year if the person maxes out the 401k contribution. So up to 1/3 of the take home pay is used just for commuting on one vehicle, in perpetuity, before the cost of paying the note. Yikes.

 

The people buying the German cars are mostly leasing. Not sure about Caddy’s.

 

And my insurance wasn’t that much higher when I had multiple vehicles. Essentially because you prorate your yearly total mileage across how ever many vehicles you are covering.