"you don't need a lift for 33's" prove me its REAL (Practical) or just a THEORY

In this forum I see many times this statement "you don't need a lift for 33's", But no one seems to run them without any clearance issues. Please show pics of your no lift 33in tire clearance. That will help our members a lot.




EDIT -
This post is purely for our members (including me who have the problem) to learn how to do it.
Or not (I mean if so, don't try without lift. Fit 33in tires with a lift)


Articles or pics find on the internet may not help anyone. Please share only your own pics.


Update 2/6/2023 -
Added a Cornfed spacer and my rubbing issue is solved on pavement. (Happy to support a fellow member's business. Not sponsored.)
Note - Not tested offroad. Not advised to ignore tire manufacture wheel width requirement. This is only to share what I did to solve my problem of tire rubbing / clearance issue. Not expert advice by no means.

 

https://overlandoutfitters.ca/blogs/news/the-myths-of-lifting-an-ifs-vehicle

"The biggest misconception I've seen is that a suspension lift is a requisite to putting bigger tires on a vehicle with Independent Front Suspension. That is simply not the case. Excluding drop bracket lifts, a suspension lift will not give you any additional clearance for tires."

Fender liner mod, possible body mount chop. yes.

 

I'm not saying 33s will fit without modifications, just that a front lift doesn't do squat. You might find the link instructive as to why.

Your poll options don't include answers that address modifications that may actually required to provide clearance so I'll pass.

 

285/70/17 on 17x8.5 0 offset.


They hit the mud flap every time I back up full lock.


Could use some more fender liner push too

 

I have a plan for the front to get more room to push tires forward and therefore more room in back so it doesn’t bother me right now. I did jack up each front corner at different times when they were installed to see if they would rub and they didn’t ‍

 

Define need.

Need as it it fits for a DD? I'm sure you can.

Flexing the suspension at full lock is another story.

Only going off tire size also is point less with all those different rims out there.

 

What's your caster at right now?

 

No its for the poll in general.

I got my lift before rims/tires so I can't speak towards this. But my friend got his rims and tires first and it was fine. On pavement. So he didn't "need" one.

But some flex and turning and he was rubbing. I can't say where he was rubbing. He got his lift shortly after and did the BMC and trimmed the bumper and all was well.



So by need are we talking any rubbing at any point? Or some rubbing is ok as long as driveability is not affected?

 

You can get more caster out of stock UCA's at stock height than what you have. This will get you further away from your mudflap and body mount.

 

Look at it this way......

Most people think of tire clearance from a height perspective. Their logic being taller tire = need for lift.

Our trucks come stock with 265/70's which are 31.7" tall. 285's are typically around 32.8" tall. Let's round that to 1" (or a radius of 0.5" taller from center of wheel to top of tire).

This 0.5" difference makes a much bigger difference for scrub clearance (side to side) then it does top to bottom.

 

285 is also wider than 265 so you end up with a larger arc that the 285 is traveling. Not as easy as just adding a half an inch to height

 

@kmeeg what is the goal or purpose of the thread? What are your wheel specs? What are your tire specs? What’s the issue you want to solve? Sounds like maybe you have a Pro with 285/70/17 that are rubbing and you want to fix that?

 

I thought about keeping my 285’s when I had the lift removed but chickened out and put 265’s on.

I had zero rubbing with the 285’s when I had the 3/2 lift. All the dealership did was the nip and tuck on the front fenders. Did not have to remove the mud flaps either. IMO, if they have to remove the mud flaps to clear 285’s, then they didn’t do the alignment right.

 

Like Kmeeg has stated, I too have seen periodic comments on here over the past two years that a Pro with the Pro Wheels can run a 285 without rubbing. Which tires might that be? Must be for gentle road driving only. I have always assumed at a minimum that I would need to install the Westcott spacer lift or Eibach Springs lift for 285's / 33's to fit without rubbing (if so I would go with the Eibach Springs). Can one run 255 or 33 skinnies on a Pro with Pro Wheels without rubbing? That is the route I am interested in down the road and would like to avoid a lift of any kind if possible. I happen to like the ride quality of the stock Pro Fox Suspension.

 

My guess...only my guess...is that would be fine. It's the width that causes the issues, not height. Since your Pro already has the front trimming done.

 

Its mind blowing that this is still being talked about on a 13 year old platform.

Unless you limit your up travel, if you rub stock, you’ll rub lifted. When you lift a ifs vehicle you are simply changing the resting height. It may help on the street but full articulation will rub the same as stock height. Exception to this would be when using uca for more than stock caster.

If you have the trd pro fender mod (you do since you have a pro) with trd pro wheels or trd off-road wheels you can run 33s. If you throw spacers on all bets are off.

 

most of the people advocating 285's fitting without a lift aren't showing what happens the first time you articulate off-road. you're going to rub fender/body for sure.

to my knowledge the only 33" that's going to work is a 255/80, and even then it will require the front bumper trim they do to the TRD Pro's at the port. there are pros and cons to running a skinnier setup but at the end of the day that's a separate debate.

 

The difference is your wheel offset.

Your pro has a +4 offset.

Your limited (with offroad wheels) has a +15 offset.

You're rubbing with your Pro because of the offset (and alignment) and not because of the lack of lift height.

Your caster can be moved further forward for sure, despite what the alignment shop says. I'm maxed out at 3.6 degrees with 1.6" of lift. Your lift height on the pro is roughly 1" so you could absolutely achieve more than 3.6 degrees on each side. You can probably make 3.8 degrees.

Take it to a different alignment shop and tell them your looking for 3.8 degrees of caster or the closest you can get to it. This is your best chance at not rubbing with your current set-up.

 

From what I read, if you like the stock pro fox suspension (I do to personally), you're better off with the westcott route

 

Correct, but tire width is a much bigger factor with scrub radius than top to bottom wheel travel.

 

You don' need a lift, but you may need to do some cutting.

 

I was going to mention the 255. I've talked to a few people that have run it on stock suspension and only needed to trim a little plastic. That would be acceptable for me. I thought about doing it on mine, but I chickened out on running E load tires.

To me, the only cons with that size are that you have limited availability, and that they're only available in E Load.

I know for fact somebody has run at 285/70s on a stock 5th gen. In this group. I forget their username, otherwise I would tag them. I do recall that they used the Firestone Destination AT, which is a mild tread and probably runs a little small. I imagine something like a Cooper AT3 or a Yoko AT would probably (mostly) fit as well.

 

285 17x8.5 -12 with no lift rubbed fender liner and body mount. Then installed 1.5" front lift. Still rubbed. Trimmed and did a bmc. No more rubbing.

There would of been less rubbing have I just used stock wheels with +15 offset.


No lift

 

It’s a common misconception that a lift gives you tire clearance, but that is just not true with the 4Runner’s IFS. There’s 4 movements for a wheel/tire - steering left, steering right, suspension compression, and suspension extension (droop). There is a fixed range of motion throughout any combination of those movements and that range of motion determines where a tire can physically be located. When you do a suspension lift, you do nothing to change the range of motion and in turn, you do nothing to change the space the tire can occupy. You’re just changing the static location of the tire inside that same range of motion which means you did not add clearance.


Let’s say you have 8” of total suspension travel and that at static ride height when stock, you have 4” of available up travel and 4” of available down travel. Now you lift it 2”, you didn’t create more room, you just made it so the static ride height moved up within the same 8” range. You would now have 6” of up travel available and only 2” of down. If a bigger tire rubbed at stock ride height while turning right and you lift it, you did not add clearance to fix the rubbing, you just changed the conditions of when it occurs, when turning right with X amount of braking or running something over, both which would cause the suspension to compress, the wheel can be put right back into the exact spot it rubbed at before and will still rub all the same. Lifting it can change the conditions in which it rubs but it’s impossible for a lift alone to add clearance.


You need to change the space the tire will occupy compared to the stock to actually create more clearance - that can be done with changes in tire width and diameter, wheel offset, different suspension geometry, the location of the lower control arms via the alignment adjust cams, etc. Shock length and aftermarket upper control arms can change the range of motion, and bump stops can be used to reduce the range of motion upwards to keep from stuffing a bigger tire into the fender. There’s lots of things and a lots of variables that will help you clear a bigger tire but on independent front suspension, with all else equal, ride height is not one of them.


All that said the 10.5” tires are easy to clear. I’m lifted about 2” all around with Icon rear springs and extended travel King 2.5” remote reservoir setup, JBA upper control arms, alignment set to 0 camber and 4.5 degrees of caster, and the tires are mounted to TuRD Pro wheels. The rear also has 2” Toytec bump stop spacers. I did the fender liner mod (unbolted the front of the liners, pulled them forward half an inch, poked new holes and bolted them back down in that position) and I heated up compressed/deformed a small area of the mud flap in the wheel well where it would just barely rub when I was applying the brakes and turning right into my driveway.

 

Start at 1:00

https://youtu.be/l1tTelhdEiM

 

And by preaching to the choir you mean stating facts (with visual demonstrations) of how you don't need lift to clear 33's?

 

That was literally addressed on my post, you can change the conditions in which it rubs but you haven’t added clearance…

 

These videos are fantastic. Whenever I watch one of these videos, my general takeaway is that it's not worth messing with IFS.

 

Facts don't matter at this point.

Never mind that most people who want bigger tires also want a lift.

All that matters is that no one at stock height and 33's that clear has posted yet.

 

Sigh.

You're not listening.

Your results are different because your wheel offsets are different.