Whereabouts Unknown: Gen6

I put a deposit on The Traveler!

 

Truly, people will talk about the Gen 5 4Runner as one of the last great, serviceable, and dependable trucks on the market.

Parts availability and aftermarket support are going to stick around for a long, long time. It’s kinda cool when you think about what you can get on the ground floor with now, I guess. Let’s see what they all look like in 20 years, lol.

 

Is there any other vehicle out there with a simplistic and reliable design like the 4Runner? Probably not. Maybe the Frontier. Hopefully someday someone makes a reliable EV SUV that isn’t overly complicated with unnecessary electronics and gimmicks.

 

The 5th gen is not simplistic. That horse left the barn a long time ago. Off road, the 4Runner stands out as the best of a bad lot. Its predecessors were superior. Even distant predecessors.

An inline six is simpler than a V6, (with its redundant parts.)
A carburetor is simpler than fuel injection.
A computer that can generate and log “codes” and can put the vehicle into “limp” mode” is not a hallmark of simplicity.
A solid axle is simpler than independent front suspension, and with coil springs provides more articulation. Because the independent suspension provides less articulation, abs-based traction control is necessary to compensate for the lack of traction. Adding complexity. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point.

I love my 4Runner, but I hold no romantic illusions about it being a rough and rugged expedition vehicle. That distinction still rests with the J60/70.

 

It’s simplistic compared to a hybrid, turbo, etc. You feed it gasoline and change the oil occasionally and it lasts a long ass time. That’s pretty simplistic to me.

 

“This really complicated thing is less complicated than some other even more complicated things, so I’m calling it simplistic.”

Okay then. No problem.

 

Yea as far as modern vehicles go, “simplistic” is going to be rather subjective. Simpler is nice and all but I do not want to deal with a choke.

I’d say we still have naturally-aspirated, conventional automatic vehicles though. I don’t think a base RAV4, Passport or Prius is particularly “complicated” but of course stuff definitely varies like Honda’s use of the shift-by-wire ZF9. (You’d need to defeat VCM and the stop/start system though)

Heck, going hybrid in the smaller options greatly simplifies the transmission (planetary CVT’s can’t be beat on that front short of direct electric motor drive) and removes (depends) the serpentine belt with the tradeoff of a hybrid battery.

The last gen Frontier is definitely up there for basic-ness and older components, and while underpinnings are shared in the new Frontier, it’s still got a lot of new stuff in it.

What I’d want to know that’s tougher to catch is parts that have become plastic that shouldn’t be and other design changes that hurt long-term use. I know plastics can be done well like they have in the past, but I just don’t have much faith in today’s environment.

And while wet belts can technically be reliable, but if they’re not economical to change then that just puts a hard limit on the engine lifespan.

 

I rode a horse in Jamaica! I was sore and bow legged for two days, it sucked!

 

Im telling you they are already all bought by someone?

 

Haha. Not from a maintenance standpoint.

 

Yes, simplicity is subjective. On the other hand automatic chokes have been around for my entire life. I also enjoy starters as well (an improvement over the Model T my brother and I own, which starts with a crank). Electric windows too. I don’t appreciate “smart” keys though, that cost >$100 for a spare.

Except for the whole “two motors” thing in the hybrids.

Shift by wire, like the transfer case in your SR5?

IMO, CVT transmissions have improved a lot, but I don’t consider that technology to be fully mature. (We have 2 Subarus in the family.)

Agreed.

 

I have more mechanical acumen than some people, I guess. I can remove, rebuild, replace, and tune a carburetor in a couple of hours. I could see it taking days for a Jaguar XKe V12.

 

Electric motors are mature and dependable, there being two of them hasn’t caused trouble and we’re also comparing two motors and a handful of gears with however many clutches, solenoids and other hydraulic bits are in an proven automatic and vulnerable to fluid condition.

I know that’s meant to be a “gotcha!” but my angle is that in the event of needing to move an unpowered midsize Honda you’ll have to buy a special Honda tool to stick under the hood to move it.

Of course not likely but I’ve run into it before where a dead battery requires use of the manual release to better access the engine bay. The third-gen Sorento has a not-uncommon BCM failure that refuses to release the shift lock. (of course one could drag the vehicle) And there’s also a case I saw of someone spilling a drink on their Honda button shifter to ill effect but that’s more of an interface issue enabled by SBW.

Not the end of the world overall but just “yet another potential gotcha” to keep in mind when shopping. Being stuck in 2WD or 4WD I’m not as concerned about and if the vehicle’s unpowered it’s not really going to be the immediate concern.

I follow! I meant the two-motor + engine eCVT/planetary power-split is completely mature.

As for the pulley kind, it seems to me they’ve gotten where they’re going to go and just need frequent fluid changes. I’m wondering if Toyota’s separate first gear will win out long term.

 

for those thinking you are saving 2-3 mpg on a new 4R is missing the point, you save a lot more gas by keeping what you have now (especially if paid off) than trying to justify a new 4R that save 2-3 mpg.

i make no qualms about getting a new plat 4R. i want the new tech and creature comforts that my 2014 4R is missing compared to my wife's 23 tundra. and yes i am classified as a mall crawler. but once in a blue moon i do go off the beaten trail to get to some fishing spots (very tame and mild off roading).

at my age i care about the FT4WD for winter time in ND and creature comforts. and this will probably be my last new vehicle since by the time this is paid off i will be at retirement.

i have roughly 6-7 yrs to retirement (63) that the only major bill i have is a mortgage

the wife make her own truck payment so that doesnt affect me.

 

Actually, you'd save money, not gas.

 

If you even get better mpg with your driving style. With the new Tacoma some people are getting mpg in the teens while others are claiming mpgs in the high twenties, while going downhill in a tailwind of course.

 

lol, i am of the mindset of i dont care about the mpg. i live in ND where winters we run our vehicles to warm them up (interior) when its below 0F and colder.

the wife's 23 plat tundra lifetime avg is 13 mpg (only 2 mpg better than our 2018 plat tundra), the winter avg is like 9 mpg due to remote starts (the 2018 winter avg is like 7 mpg, that v8 took forever to warm up compared to the twin turbo's)

my 14 limited 4R lifetime avg is 17 mpg, winter avg is like 13 mpg due to remote starts.

 

thats assuming idle is when the engine is at temp which in my case during the winters, can take maybe 3-5 mins to get the engine to op temp. that wont include the transmission or the diffs getting up to temp since you would need to drive it

takes about 1-2 miles of driving in the cold to get the trans to go into 5th gear at times during winter, which is very noticeable for me since the rpms run high until i get out the south gate from base at worse extremes.

and never mind the cold a$$ steering wheel taking forever to warm up (its a 2014 no heated wheel) and that cold seeps thru the gloves forever.

and 11 yrs of winter remote starts letting it warm up hasnt had any ill affects for me, so i will keep doing it. i have an old post of where i posted pic of my spark plugs at 106k miles using only 87 octane w/ 10% eth the whole time.

too each their own, but we will continue with how we do things up here in ND during the winters

 

Moving forward, debate on proper warmup (and cooldown) is only going to get more…lively.

Toyota can engineer the heck out that 2.4T as it leaves the factory. Of greater concern will be owners’ personal attitudes towards warmup, engine racing, oil change intervals, and cooldown/heat soak.

In other words, until we see some long term reliability data, hard pass on a future used Gen6 4Runner.

 

I'll be waiting for the 6th year of the 6th gen for the Woke Runner Edition. Runs on eggshells.

 

I hope they will make exactly that so you can get what you want.

 

I thought the "E" in EV stood for overly complicated with unnecessary electronics and gimmicks.

 

Yes! Exactly this!!! The 4runner is under rated with regard to it’s combination of capability, durability, utility, and reliability, compared to anything else currently available. Took me a bit to truly realize this because I have solid axle on my mind too much lol.

Like you said…make a token attempt to recognize the faithful old guard, and then move on without them. They don’t need us buying the new 6th gens, because we have 5th gens that will do just fine until we’re done. Or when we get bored and move on to something else, or when our 5th gens get totalled.


Something tells me that eventually, the 6th gens will be in the same position the 5th gen is right now. Toyota has spent too much to not slowly improve the new architecture to perfection…at least relatively speaking compared to the competition that will exist in 15 or 20 years.

 

Here’s my take on it let’s say Toyota can and did make the almighty 3rd gen brand new today, I would argue it would NOT be as reliable even if they used everything the same (same 3.4 engine same transmission etc)

the reason is let’s look at the paint for one thing, they used lead based paint back then that’s why the paint on older Toyotas still look pretty good even to this day, the next gen (4th gen) around the early 2000s they switched to water based whether the epa made them or they did it to save money but modern Toyota paint is soft and it’s garbage. Chips easy and clear coat burns away like that.

also every Toyota and every other car manufacturer uses parts suppliers from all over the world including china India and Mexico to make the odds and ends of the thousands of parts your car is made of.

needless to say since Covid parts quality has gone to shit and the corporate mentality more than ever is to cut corners so they’ll just use shittier parts and raw materials in that factory in china or India that your 4Runner uses

look at plastics, again not sure if it’s an epa thing or Toyota cheaping out or both but the injection molded plastics are a lot shittier in modern Toyotas than from the 90s they didn’t scratch nearly as easily back then and the feel more durable

so that being said no matter how hard Toyota tries they can’t fight “progress” they tried to slow it down with the 5th gen but it’s a new era for not just Toyota but everyone in the automotive industry and reliability is no longer a thing but stories we will tell our grandchildren about one day

 

If they took a 5th gen 4Runner and just put an electric drivetrain in it would be awesome. I don’t want door handles that pop out, motorized hvac vents, power hood and hatches, giant screens, yoke steering wheel and all the other stupid BS that just adds to the MSRP and is going to be a maintenance nightmare.

 

Yup. Quality control on everything is garage these days. Speaking of plastics, the seat surrounds on the new Tundras that keep cracking are ridiculous.

 

No, it wouldn't. It would suck. Maybe as an option for people who don't travel it would be fine. But, I certainly wouldn't want one.

 

I think I’d be fine with an electric drivetrain. Just as long as it’s a diesel-electric.

 

This I can get behind.

 

I think they should.put a 4.7L gas V8 in it. That's as "electric" as I want it.