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When do I know if I really need a winch?

Discussion in 'Off-Roading & Trails' started by xmt037, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. Aug 13, 2021 at 10:39 PM
    #1
    xmt037

    xmt037 [OP] New Member

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    I'm trying to figure out if I really need to get a winch. The expense (install, hidden bumper, winch itself) will be around $2500. I currently have a tow strap and MaxTrax. I plan on doing quite a bit of solo trips around California, Oregon, Washington, and while it would be nice for the piece of mind, anyone have any tips for evaluating whether I need a winch?
     
    Thatbassguy likes this.
  2. Aug 14, 2021 at 2:28 AM
    #2
    Toy4X4

    Toy4X4 New Member

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    When you get in a situation where: you're stuck in the mud, the frame is resting on the ground, you might need a winch. If a tree laying in the road could easily pulled out of the way so you could pass, you might need a winch. You might happen upon some unfortunate soul that could use a pull out of a ditch..... winch time. It would be better to have a winch and not need it, than to need a winch and not have one! If you're going on several solo 'explores', the winch might be something to have.
     
  3. Aug 14, 2021 at 3:22 AM
    #3
    The Blue Pearl

    The Blue Pearl New Member

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    You won’t know you NEED it until it’s TOO LATE !
    If your planning to do a lot of solo excursions it would probably be a good idea to bite the bullet - that tow strap is no good if there is no one to pull you out

    At minimum I would buy a GOOD Come-a- long and tree strap / anchor point to get your self out of a bind

    Happy wheeling
     
  4. Aug 14, 2021 at 3:30 AM
    #4
    wdsteven

    wdsteven New Member

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    Actually You can "know" before it is too late. When you come to a certain area in the trail you really could get stuck and you look at it with the "I don't know" feeling and back down that is when you know it just may be time for that upgrade.
     
  5. Aug 14, 2021 at 6:14 AM
    #5
    olliechristoper

    olliechristoper New Member

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    If you are young and ft there is nothing you can't do with what you have along with a High Lift jack/come-along, block/tackle and a shovel. It is just going to take longer and require a lot more effort.

    As far as evaluating use the GOAL way of thinking (get out and look). I even do this when I'm riding motorcycles in nasty terrain. And one more very important tip: NEVER EVER under any circumstance go down a hill that you are not 100% positive you can go back up or their is another way around it.

    There is a place here in California called the Piutes where riders have had to be airlifted because they rode down hills they could not climb back out of.
     
  6. Aug 14, 2021 at 7:17 AM
    #6
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

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    How much have you wheeled? Experience will help you determine this. I've been wheeling for 5 or so years, forest roads, sand dunes, Colorado trails, offroad parks. I avoid mud pits.

    Honestly I've used a winch like 3 times in maybe 50 + trips. Order of operations:

    1. Tug with a rope. This is 80% of recoveries.
    2. Stacking Rocks. 10% of the time.
    3. Traction boards. 5% of the time.
    4. Winch. 5% of the time.

    However, always with a group, rarely solo.

    If you're solo a winch would go way up the list. However, you need to consider a land anchor or something cause a winch won't work if there's nothing to fasten to.
     
  7. Aug 14, 2021 at 9:10 AM
    #7
    xmt037

    xmt037 [OP] New Member

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    Thanks all. I'm being quoted $2K for a hidden winch bumper, WARN VR EVO 8-S winch with synthetic rope, and 5 hours of labor. Does that sound right to folks?
     
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  8. Aug 14, 2021 at 11:45 AM
    #8
    wdsteven

    wdsteven New Member

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    That is not really a bad quote depending on what brand the hidden winch bumper is and the quality of the work. I been Solo Trail running since 2004 (and Group runs) Never have had to use the winch on Solo runs because I tend to be a bit more careful and think out the line of approach. but on Group runs? ha! the winch gets the workout pulling others out because all the nutcases trying to impress and show others what they "think" their rig can do.
     
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  9. Aug 14, 2021 at 12:05 PM
    #9
    MeefZah

    MeefZah ---

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    You can knock that cost to about $1200 if you opt for a SDHQ hidden bumper and an 8k Warn VR-S winch. Probably knock a few hundred more off with a low end Smittybilt or a Harbor Freight winch. Install yourself is easy.
     
    xmt037[OP] and SlvrSlug like this.
  10. Aug 14, 2021 at 3:51 PM
    #10
    Oldtoyotaguy

    Oldtoyotaguy Paid cash for it

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    I solo quite a bit so there is peace of mind with a winch. But you know you need a winch when you get to a place in a trail where you don’t risk going any further, and decide to turn around and give up. You just don’t want to take a chance of being stranded in the middle of nowhere. But with a winch, you won’t be stranded, so you go for it. When you find that your off roading is being restricted, a winch is cheap insurance that you may never need. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
     
    Ironguy, Thatbassguy, DRobs and 4 others like this.
  11. Aug 14, 2021 at 4:01 PM
    #11
    BearBio

    BearBio New Member

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    When you have to walk home is a pretty good sign!
     
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  12. Aug 16, 2021 at 2:47 PM
    #12
    nonuniform

    nonuniform New Member

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    If you solo, winch is nice to have. Side note: in the desert, or other areas with no obvious anchors, you'll be digging a trench for a land anchor (your spare tire, or an actual land anchor). This is a bummer, or a fitness routine I guess.
     
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  13. Aug 17, 2021 at 3:31 AM
    #13
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    I've yet to use my winch on a trail in 3 years of having it on my 4runner.
    It is insurance for going solo and helping other out.

    I've been stuck once but was with a group of folks and used my snatch rope hooked up to another vehicle.
    I've also pulled other vehicles with my snatch rope.

    I recommend joining Facebook Overland groups in those states you want to explore. I'm a member of about 5 different Off Road and Overland groups on Facebook and find there are tons of people that want to off road - every weekend. As long as you don't turn your nose up to off roading with Jeeps, Nissans, Fords, and Chevys you will find others wanting to trail ride.

    My current group is called the Mark Twain Mafia and is open to all street legal 4x4 vehicles. We have had just about every type of 4wd vehicle on our weekend adventures:

    5-29-21 Run.jpg
    2.jpg

    8-8-21 group 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
  14. Aug 17, 2021 at 4:05 AM
    #14
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    You can install it yourself. You need a floor jack, socket set, wrench set, Harbor Freight Torque Wrench, and a Dremel rotary tool.
    The install will go a lot faster if you have electric impact driver (Milwaukee Tool etc).
    https://www.redtoolstore.com/produc...t-drill-impact-driver-kit?variant=15133385222

    I installed my Warn bumper and Warn winch with non-powered hand tools. Took me about 2 afternoons over a weekend.

    Warn Evo 8S $704.99 free shipping
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrn-103251

    Warn semi hidden winch bumper $578 free shipping:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/164976999397?epid=8045063031

    Install video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twKnFKkfoNY
     
    This site contains affiliate links for which the site may be compensated.
    #14
  15. Aug 17, 2021 at 6:08 AM
    #15
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

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    SWEET! an Excursion. That's a big boy.
     
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  16. Aug 17, 2021 at 6:11 AM
    #16
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    Skip winches something every ride. Himself, trees, other vehicles, etc. He also puts a new dent in it every trip but wants to go off road every weekend. Awesome guy.
     
  17. Aug 17, 2021 at 9:41 AM
    #17
    nonuniform

    nonuniform New Member

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    Thanks for the video!

    Also, no reason not to do this yourself, everyone needs an excuse to buy more tools. I know I do!
     
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  18. Aug 17, 2021 at 12:13 PM
    #18
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    You bet. I used this video to install my Warn bumper.
    All these semi-hidden / hybrid bumpers use the same mounting points.
     
  19. Aug 17, 2021 at 2:27 PM
    #19
    nonuniform

    nonuniform New Member

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    Good to know! I'm still looking into it, haven't gone too deeply. Going to replace the factory tires first, then bumper/winch. Probably won't get to it until October-ish.
     
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  20. Aug 17, 2021 at 4:47 PM
    #20
    olliechristoper

    olliechristoper New Member

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    No offense Dan but that makes me nervous just looking at a group that large. I have been on hard core 2 track on my motorcycles and came across large groups of 4 wheelers and it makes me sick thinking I would be stuck in between an obstacle and broke down rig. I watched a guy trying to fix a whole in his pan while rigs were stacking up behind him. Minutes for me to get around. Hours for those behind him stuck on the trail for hours with no movement.
     
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  21. Aug 17, 2021 at 8:18 PM
    #21
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I think it depends on who's in the group. Going with people who maintain their vehicles and have good judgement can go a long way.

    I've had a handful of runs with around 10+ vehicles without any problems. We also skip parts of the trail that are likely to cause problems depending on the vehicles that are along and experience.

    I definitely wouldn't want to share the trail with a large group of inexperienced drivers without the proper equipment, though.
     
  22. Aug 17, 2021 at 9:42 PM
    #22
    olliechristoper

    olliechristoper New Member

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    And James there is the rub. So many times it is just too easy to get in over your head with nowhere to turn around. But yes all your advice is great. Especially gong with groups that properly maintain and know how to drive. I have the common sense (so I think). But definitely not the skill it takes to navigate 4 wheels in nasty, off camber, cliff hanging, terrain.
     
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  23. Aug 18, 2021 at 3:56 AM
    #23
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    "It's a Jeep Thing" what that really means is someone is always working on their Jeep on the side or start of the trail.

    A working / maintained vehicle is one our prerequisites. Though the main leaders of our group (myself included) carry enough recovery gear to drag any broken down vehicle off the trail to the trail head. So far that has not been needed.

    I bring extra radios with me, if there is an issue we can stop and help, or send everyone else forward and out. There plenty of places to pull off. While it is a technical trail, we start with the easy trail in the morning and then move to the technical ones in the afternoon.

    My 1st time riding with a similar group we had a 2000 GMC Yukon XL with running boards (almost as long as a school bus), a Nissan Xterra, and a Jeep Rubicon. I took them on a short easy rocky trail which they all did fine with. Then had the Yukon driver ride with me on a more technical trail. The Xterra driver decided to do the same after bottoming out on a drop off.

    I do warn everyone that this is real off roading and pinstripes should be expected. Midsize and smaller vehicles can go around some obstacles. Full size vehicles will have to go through any major obstacle. Largest vehicle we've had is a F350 with topper and rack on top of the topper.

    Glade.jpg

    Worst ground clearance vehicles? Tie between a pair of Subarus and a Jeep Compass. I warned all 3 that this is real off roading and there is a chance they will damage their underbody with such low ground clearance. They went on the easy trail and skipped out on the more technical trail.

    Jeep Compass.jpg

    Subaru.jpg
    Note above 2 pics are from the "easy trail."
     
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  24. Aug 18, 2021 at 4:29 AM
    #24
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    Something to add, time killers on trail ride, with a big group, are not a bad thing. I plan stops on the trail rides I lead for lunch breaks / piss breaks. Everyone wants a pic or video of their vehicle in action. If there is a difficult section ahead, I'll tell those behind me to hold back so I can get out and video them going through it.

    2 short examples from a trail ride 2 weeks ago:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij3kMVDyIyg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuLIZ14ZQfU

    1 more from a mud hole:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNuCsHDIzeo
     
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  25. Aug 18, 2021 at 4:54 AM
    #25
    DRobs

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    One more point - low and slow. I tell everyone, to take their time use 4low as it will keep their transmission cooler. This isn't a race. I use 4wd low and gears 1-3. Ideally we are traveling at about 5mph on these trails. On the technical spots - 1mph. On easy spots we may speed up to 8 to 14mph. Off roading in a street legal vehicle is different than a dirt bike, atv, or SxS. Those 3 can fly over obstacles. Street legal vehicles need to crawl over obstacles so they don't break things.

    Lastly my rule for all trail rides I go on / lead - Headlights on for Safety. If you have light bars use them. Vehicle lighting gives on coming traffic on a trail advanced warning. There are kids out there blasting through the trails on dirt bikes and sxs'. We want to off road as safely as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
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  26. Aug 18, 2021 at 5:11 AM
    #26
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Agreed! I leave mine in 4LO in rocky areas and use S1- S3. In easier areas, I'll use 2wd or 4HI and S1-S3. Trying to go through rocky areas in a hurry is a good way to break stuff!

    We do headlights in dusty conditions, but I never use light bars/ditch lights during the day. A set of chase lights can be a good thing.
     
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  27. Aug 18, 2021 at 5:21 AM
    #27
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    I'd recommend you use your headlights on the trail during the day. I had a kid on a dirty bike almost do a header into my 4Runner 1st time I took off road.
     
  28. Aug 18, 2021 at 5:43 AM
    #28
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    We do headlights most of the time as there's always dust. But, If you can't see a 4Runner in broad daylight, chances are headlights aren't going to help.
     
  29. Aug 18, 2021 at 6:37 AM
    #29
    olliechristoper

    olliechristoper New Member

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    This kind of sounds exactly like what we do when leading motorcycle groups through rough trail rides. It usually starts out with a "squid filter" like this:

    1B10AEFA-599E-42BA-8D54-16AA0C199698.jpg

    This is a Jeep 2 track and has another section further up that is tougher than this. Memories.....
     
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  30. Aug 18, 2021 at 6:38 AM
    #30
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

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    @olliechristoper similar to @DRobs comments, I'll echo those. 5 - 8 vehicles is a good size. Any bigger it does get a little traffic jammy, but consider that the group we wheel with LIKE to work on other people's stuff. If something breaks, it gives us a chance to turn wrench, solve problems.

    In many ways, those become the highlights of the trip.
     

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