Toyota Pricing WOW!!

It’s a matter of priorities. I love horsepower but I love handling more. The BRZs and GTIs and similar that have gone through my household were more fun to drive than the high HP cars like my M235. Also, unless you’re tracking it, it’s the sense of speed that matters more than the actual numbers. The BMW would crush the other cars in a race but be half as fun doing it.

And yes, the new Civic is a decent looker. The interior is especially good.

Do I trust that 1.5 turbo for the long haul? Certainly not. Nor was it my point to suggest that there are affordable cars as durable, as reliable and with as much utility as the 4Runner. Of course there aren’t. That’s also true for almost all vehicles that cost the same as the 4R — or more.

My point is just that the manufacturers are in fact making appealing vehicles at affordable price points. No one said a 25k vehicle is as desirable as a 50k vehicle. Just that people can in fact get good transportation— even fun transportation! — on a budget. Look at the BRZ / GR86. Under 30k!

 

"My mechanic buddy owns a auto repair shop and he is having a banner year(s). He said he has never seen people invest so heavily on ten year old cars. Cars that would be traded-in in past are now being repaired with long term repairs costing up to $6,000. He said that never happened in the past."

And the good, independent shops are likely to see more of this type work over the next 2-3 years as inflation remains high. Even after dealer new car inventories start to rebound, the simple cost of a new or 3 year old (or less) used vehicle will likely remain too high for many. Higher interest rates will add to the pain. For many, the major repairs to their older vehicle may be their only alternative. Even at $6,000.00 if their 10 year old car can be made truly road-worthy again, for say another 5 years or so usage, that may seem like a bargain. It's unfortunate that the folks in most need of a new vehicle will simply be priced out of both the new/used markets.
I get the feeling I will soon be re-living the late 70's early 80's all over again. Sad.

 

I agree, to an extent. My MR2 was super fun, despite having only ~110 hp. If I could have the same thing with twice the power, It would have been even more fun. My TC has only 180 HP, and is enjoyable to drive. I think around 300 would be much nicer, though. But, at some point, it can become pointless.

I didn't really know much about the m235, so I looked it up. As far as I can tell it has 301 horsepower, so not what I would consider "high horsepower."

I really like the look of the '86. I would love to have one, maybe with a little boost.

 

I think the M235i was actually 320 horses and 330 pounds of torque, which is dramatically more than the BRZ or GTI. But more to the point it did 0-60 in the 4s and would max at 175mph (not that I approached that). The new version is closer to 400 HP and torque, and it still wouldn’t be half as fun to drive as those other cars.

I’ve ordered both a 2023 BRZ and a 2023 GR86. Taking whichever comes in first. I prefer the looks of the 86 (and maybe its suspension tweaks?) but also love the BRZ and would get that one cheaper. So I’ll be psyched either way.

 

I'd definitely take either one over the BMW. But, these are the specs that come up on a Google search:



So, still 301 HP.

Yes, that is significantly more than the others. But, I still do not consider it high horsepower. Not when a Camry has the same horsepower.

 

BMW are great!!!
My mother-in-law got one. Within a year the entire radio/nav system needed replacing at $2400 bucks.

 

Or reprogrammed. Non of this newer eletronic crap works.

 

Atleast we still have Howitzers. About the only thing you can depend on. And not the new GPS ones those are crap the old-fashioned manual.

 

Oh my, that is not at all the car I’m talking about. That’s BMW’s new front drive abomination that has stolen the old 2 Series name. Here’s the one I’m talking about. A real RWD coupe in the old BMW tradition. Yikes.

BTW it’s beneath you to call me a liar

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15104907/bmw-m235i-2016-10best-cars-feature/

 

Wow where was that made South Carolina?

 

Mine was made in Germany. To order.

I only had it for 40k plus miles, but it had basically zero issues in that time. It was virtually flawless. Wish I could say that about my 4R.

My 4R has failed to start after sitting only a few days, garaged in normal temps. Has failed to restart three times after using the remote start feature from the key fob. And has persistent steering wheel shimmy on anything other than the OEM wheel set. All within the first 14k miles. I still like it more than that BMW, but let’s be real. I can’t fault the quality of that BMW — or the one I had for about 80k miles. That never had any issues at all. None.

 

Oh, yeah. That's a little different than what I was finding on Google. But, I didn't call you a liar.

Also, 320 horsepower is still not what I would consider high horsepower..

 

It’s all relative of course. You can use whatever definition you like. It’s ultimately rather arbitrary. 320 and 330 torque is about a third higher than the GTI and pushing twice as high as the last BRZ. Also twice a Miata. One of my all time favorite drivers was a MGB. That had something like 80 horses.

320 and 330 in a vehicle that weighs 1300 pounds less than my 4R. Not bad imo. But you’re free to set the cutoff wherever you like. With EVs on the horizon “high” HP is gonna be even higher. Much higher.

 

True. I just wonder how the fun factor would compare to something like a Corvette.

Heck, my TC feels fast compared to the 4Runner.

EV's are already crazy fast. But, I'd still rather have an ICE sports car. The sound and the experience of shifting a manual transmission is half of the fun.

 

Hope u don’t bend a rim.

 

Some people are so negative. The rims weren’t that pricey. And they weren’t even that low profile — not compared to some of the ridiculous rubber bands of tire stretched around some wheels these days. Plus I had a set of BBS rims I ran with performance winter tires for the cold months. Nice looking rims and only about $200 each. Mounted and balanced courtesy of Tire Rack. So no, Negative Nancy, bending a rim was never a big concern.

 

“Scotty! I need more power!”

remember that more power comes with more weight, and that’s usually more weight over the front wheels, which often Fs up handling including through miserable understeer. I like muscle cars. Came close to buying both a V8 Camaro and a V8 Charger. But it’s not the same kind of joy that comes from a well balanced and lightweight vehicle, with neutral handling or better yet a tendency to oversteer. I feel badly for people who don’t know the difference and don’t get it. They’re missing out on a lot.

I’d happily own both kinds of sports cars, but if I only have one it’s hands down going to be the latter.

 

My 4R got wet, sorry. There was a Mercedes at the tire shop for two weeks waiting on a rim.

 

Negative and some seem to have late night drinks to often judging by some posts lol. Haters gonna hate!

 

Trying to insight a riot? I don’t drink because of people like you.

 

I’d love to drive one. The specs are incredible, especially for the price. But I have this crazy thing called wanting to be able to see out the back window lol.

Poor visibility was actually the main thing that stopped me from buying the Camaro. You can’t see sh*t outta that thing. Driving is a lot more rewarding when you can see the four corners of your car and the road all around you. I don’t want to be in a freakin turret.

 

Unfortunately? You say recession like it's a bad thing. And when a recession's looking good, you know the market done screwed the pooch. When the prices bottom out, I'M BUYING.

 

How do you stay alive without drinking? IV to stay hydrated? Very interesting.

 

Come on over a drink the water around here? You wouldn’t last 6 months.

 

They were gonna bring public water out here. But I says” hey that’s my asswater anyway it’s just recycled”, so they held off.

 

Agreed. As powerful as many of the American sports cars are, none of them appeal to me at all, partly for that reason alone.

 

Reminds me of the Nissan 280ZX I had for a short period. Could not see a thing out of the back of it - Mr. CHP didn't even have to sneak up to get me.

 

I understand wanting a balance as opposed to pure straight line acceleration. But, I'm pretty sure there are some well balanced sports cars around that actually have power.

I don't think anyone who prefers power over handling is missing out on anything, though. Different strokes..

I haven't driven a Corvette or a Camaro, but the visibility in the Camaro looks like it probably sucks.

 

The Camaro is built for a Big Block.

 

Corvette=go cart