Thinking of trading in the 4R...

yeah, but to add to the other responses above. I would NEVER put Jeep and FORD in the tier of Toyota or Honda. And after my experiences with those 2 brands (excluding my 86 F150 SWB single cab), they will NEVER get my money again. POSs in every nut and bolt.

 

The most people use the 4Runner, being body on famous of no consequence.

I was going to reply something similar. For someone looking for a boxy, rugged looking vehicle to take the kids to school in, they're pretty close. If anything, the Honda is superior to that.

Considering "check for frame rust" is always the number one piece of advice for 4Runner shoppers, the frame seems more of a con than a pro.

 

True. I guess what im saying is these two vehicles should not cost the same because they are so different. If your not interested in the capabilities or longevity of a full frame, RWD design, along with the downfalls, then you should educate yourself before car shopping. Thats way.

 

Exactly, this is why the 4Runner really has no competition.

Its certainly should not be not competing for soccer mom duties, the Honda is the clear choice. More interior room, better ride and handling, better fuel economy, less expensive. Why would you choose a 4runner over all that?

 

That’s true. I never had to worry about rust with my unibody XJ Cherokee. They are also extremely capable vehicles without a frame. The Banana has proven that.

 

Just passed 500 miles with it this weekend, and filled it up for the first time. The first tank was courtesy of the dealer, and I got a hand calculated 19.6mpg. Once filled, it was showing 615 miles of range. I love the big tank! I'll probably start filling it up around the half tank mark. It took a while to pump 27 gallons and I hate standing around in the cold, haha.

I really can't overstate how much I like this 6-cylinder. It's just so quiet and smooth, not what one one really envisions for a pickup, but it's such a nice driving experience. Even with the Duratracs, it's silent at 70 mph, and it accelerates 40 to 70 like nothing, with very little engine noise.

I picked up a Lasfit bed mat early this week, and finally settled on a pair of side steps. I'm absolutely loving it so far, though obviously it's still early. Did more truck stuff today, moved a king sized mattress for my sister-in-law. It's useful, but hoping I don't become "the truck guy" and get asked to help everyone, haha.

 

Are you doing an early oil change?
Talking about being the truck guy, I need to pick up a husky tool chest that won't fit in my 4runner.

 

Yeah, going to call the service department tomorrow to make an appointment for an oil change. It looks like cake to do it myself, but I want it on the service records. It has a normal oil filter, and the filter and drain plug are easily accessible without removing anything. Plus, it sits high enough that I don't need ramps.

 

Late to this party but it looks like you made a good choice.

I was going to add that, even though I've been mostly GM all my life, never, never buy a GM with AFM. OTOH a buddy with the 3.0 twin-turbo diesel Silverado loves it. Great fuel mileage (he claims close to 30 hwy) and can pull just about anything hooked onto it. He has a skid loader and trailer that's close to 10K lbs and its no problem. 50K miles so far and flawless.

Have fun.

 

While I love XJ's, I think citing the Banana is a stretch. The thing has been extensively modified. Upgraded axles, custom suspension geometry, swapped engine for a stroked 4.0 (although I think this one blew up and they swapped it back to a stock 4.0 for the time being)

Point is I think that's a lot like saying one of the fastest cars is a honda civic and posting a picture of this. Good base for mods but not the most capable in stock form.



Dollar for dollar an XJ is a good base for modification. However, in stock configuration a TJ or JK would out wheel a XJ all day long. To your point I don't think that has much to do with bof or unibody construction though.

 

Dollar for dollar an XJ is a good base for modification. However, in stock configuration a TJ or JK would out wheel a XJ all day long. To your point I don't think that has much to do with bof or unibody construction though.[/QUOTE]

I've had 3 XJ's and 6 Wranglers, CJs, TJ, and JKs over the past 35 or so years. I would say that, similarly equipped, the Wrangler style would win, but just by a bit, mostly due to ground clearance. My XJs went places I never thought they'd get out of. No mods on any other than skid plates, stock LSD, 2" lifts, and 33" BFG M/T on any of them.

 

They are capable for sure!
I guess my point is some things are harder to change. Nearly every Rubicon has a very low center of gravity. Great approach, departure, and breakover angles straight from the factory. Very good suspension geometry for wheeling. Plus good gear ratio's and lockers from the factory.

I think why XJ's got so popular in the wheeling world is the entry price is super affordable. You can then chop it up and do a custom 4 link setup for pretty minimal money. Custom high clearance bumpers and skids (assuming you're doing it yourself)
The drivetrain is also tried and true. The straight 6, 4.0L is solid. Unlike some of the pentastar engines most rubicons are optioned with...

Not hating on the XJ, but if I wanted something out of the box that had the highest capability off road I'd probably just pay the up front cost of a 2015 JK. Having some basic fab skills doesn't make we want to get an XJ and immediately have to weld up custom links, swap axles, add lockers, etc etc. I'd just get a JK and run some long travel suspension and 35s or 37s.

Important to note the intent of this project would be doing trails that my 4Runner cannot do. Not doing the same trails with less comfort.

 

The point was that you don’t need a body on frame vehicle to do what most people do in a 4Runner. A unibody 4Runner could be just as good.

 

If not BETTER. Lighter, more efficient, likely more interior room. And most importantly, no more frame rot concerns.

 

While I agree that most drivers wouldn’t see any benefit from bof construction there are benefits

-Torsional strength and durability
-better suspension articulation
-higher ground clearance
-easier repairs and modifications
-heavier load capacity

just to name a few.

I concede though. You’re totally right in saying most people don’t need a body on frame 4Runner. I’m certainly glad it is though!

It is certainly lighter! But the fuel mileage is worse than a 5th gen… all to make whopping 190 hp. So by definition it is less efficient.
Interior space is over 30% larger on the 4Runner.

You’re right the frame won’t rot. Everything else will.

I get it, you’re not team 4Runner anymore.

 

Now im seriously debating trading/sell my 4runner..... in 2027 for the new scout, im in love.

 

I think a body on frame vehicle holds up better to the constant twisting/flexing that happens off road. I have no doubt that an off-road unibody vehicle would not hold up the same as a 4runner under long term and frequent off-road use. They just don’t flex, so all that stress goes into the body structure.

I know you mentioned rust at some point. In defense of 4runners, the rust on unibodies vehicles is less visible, but structural corrosion can happen to the same severity in the same time, if left unchecked. I recently bought a used highlander. Even though I looked at the subframes before buying, it was only after a I got home that I could really see how bad it was. Salvagable, but definitely marginal. Replacing subframes is usually not any more financially viable than it to do a full frame replacements on a BOF vehicles.

 

Oh, forgot to add @Trail Runnah , congrats on the new ride!!! Sounds like it’s a beast! I think it’s hilarious how much better the fuel mileage is considering the size and weight differences.

 

I wasn't saying the XJ was more fuel efficient, it's a 40+ year old design (that WAS way more efficient than the vehicle it replaced), I was just saying in general.

All things equal, a gen 6 4Runner that was unibody instead of BOF would likely be a little more efficient and roomy.

I was never really "team 4Runner". I owned one because it fit my needs at the time, and overall I DO think the 5th gen is a good vehicle (mostly for simplicity and reliability), but I always had my gripes with it. A part of me wished I could hang onto it alongside the truck, but the offer was too good.

I'm sure sooner or later I'll find things I dislike about the Ram too.

As far as the better trail vehicle, I'd probably look for a TJ for the simple fact that I always kind of wanted one. It's make a great around town vehicle too.

Something like Matt's XJ is super capable, and achievable if one has the skills, but I wouldn't compare all XJs against it. The cool thing about XJs is that even with a bolt on 3-4" suspension lift and 33" tires, they're super capable. I had a ZJ Grand Cherokee, same deal. As a trail rig I'd put it ahead of my 4Runner.

 

I remember doing a lot of work on my 1993 mustang, while one of my friends was modding a 300Z. Both unibody vehicles. Many times i would notice flex in the mustangs body when up and down jacking, but that nissan would have zero flex. It was one of the reasons i got away from Fords, but I think I started associating uni body vehicles to the mustang, and all body on frame vehicles to the 300z, which may explain my preference for body on frame, especially if its something i want to keep longer term and be able to handle some abuse. This doesnt mean Jeep cant slap together a tough unibody, but in most cases body on frame are more robust and thus longer lasting.

There were some models more prone to frame corrosion than others, just avoid those and maintain what you have if its solid

 

Oh yeah, I used to be into drag racing and pony cars, those Fox bodies did have wicked flex. You could see it when they launch off the line, they'd always pull the driver's front tire as the chassis twisted. I recall there were a lot of chassis stiffening kits available for them, or full roll cages as well.

For modern vehicles, I do recall reading numerous times that if designed correctly, a unibody vehicle can be stiffer than a body on frame. When you think about it, it makes sense, it's all one piece, and they can add different thicknesses of metal under in high stress areas. Plus, modern welding and adhesive techniques are very strong. Meanwhile, the body on frame vehicle has a frame, and then rubber mounts attaching it to the body, which is naturally going to allow some flex.

I always liked those 300ZXs, I thought they were cool cars. In my young and dumb days I beat one at a stoplight drag race with my Trans Am GTA, I was really excited till somebody pointed out to me later on that it probably was a non-turbo version.

 

Thanks man! I'm really liking it so far.

This thing is QUICK, I got on it yesterday when getting on the highway, only got up to about 4k rpm, but it pinned me back into the seat and 40-70mph was a snap. Best of all, hardly any noise or drama, just thrust. This ZF 8 speed is SO smooth with this engine.

It's wild the fuel mileage they're getting out of full size trucks these days. If I didn't think I'd get the same if not better than the 4R, I wouldn't have went with a truck. I'm used to the mileage and cost so no adjustment there.

I'll say though I'm under no illusion that this 3.0 will last as long as a Toyota 4.0 or 4.7, but I don't plan on keeping this forever so it's not that big of a deal. I think even with Toyotas now, the era of keeping modern vehicles 200 or 300,000 mi is likely over.

 

Just keep it well maintained. With having turbos, on time oil changes are a must. Like with any vehicle, if you take care of it and itll last.

 

So this is interesting....

Earlier in this thread, I think the general consensus was the my 4Runner trade in would just go to auction. I drove by the dealer, and they have it right out front on the used car side. They put some new tires on it, not sure what else they did. I couldn't bring myself to see what they have it listed for, but knowing what it needed, I can't see much meat on the bone there.

I hope a local doesn't buy it, it's like that old GF that you're not completely over that you don't want to see around.

I'm still loving the Ram, but I do still find myself checking out 4Runners when I see them. My local Toyota dealer has a nice white 23 ORP on the lot for 41k, if I had seen that 6 months ago I might have been tempted.

Ram is going to hit 2k miles on the way home today, it's going in for NHOU Boss wax undercoating next week. After that I might try to get it off-road, one of the local off-road groups has some guys with fullsizes that are talking about putting something together.