The 2020 Prius is amazing

It drives like what I imagined a Tesla would drive like. Super quick and smooth acceleration even up steep hills, something we all know that the 4Runner struggles mightily with.

Adaptive cruise control that goes all the way to 1mpg during stop and go San Diego Highway traffic.

I’ve never driven a Prius before this rental car during my SoCal house hunting trip, but my god it is amazing. I had fallen prey to misinformation that Priuses suck. Maybe it did a decade ago, but this new one is something amazing. I drove this thing 85mph on the 405 for hours and hard in the city and still averaged 54.5 mpg.

I had convinced myself that I’d never drive anything other than a 4Runner again, but now I realize how lacking the engine and transmission are in this dinosaur of a car. Now I hope they have a hybrid for the next 4Runner.

Holy shit. I feel so stupid for judging all hybrids because the Prius is ugly. We all will have to keep an open mind in the future. I want a hybrid 4Runner. Then I may cancel my CyB3RtRcK preorder.

ps. I still think it’s ugly

 

I had one as a rental in 2017 for a 2400 mile trip. I honestly loved the fucking thing. Hybrid. 40-50mpg. Great sound system. Super easy to drive for long periods with lane control. Hated adaptive cruise, though.

 

I know it isn't a 4runner but our neighbors have a 2010 Lexus RX300(?) Hybrid. Bought it used. Battery is still @ over 80% capacity and gets 45mpg all day in city traffic. I don't think it has ever been in for any problems.

 

I had a hybrid lexus for a rental once. Would be awesome on a golf course. Road? I'll pass and enjoy my 19mpg all day long

 

I can’t wait for my new Cybertruck! I plan on parking the 4 Runner in the other garage bay for old time sake, and whenever I need to hear the cacophony from a 19th century ICE.

 

I don’t think the cars are bad, I just think the drivers in those cars suck!

 

I had one for a rental once too, and hated it. Too small, too light weight, too electronic'y, too low to the pavement. I like sitting up high so I can see things (motorcycles and Prius'es) while driving. That Prius felt like I was driving a door wedge. I am happy feeding dead dinosaurs to my ICE'd Runner.

 

I'm not a fan of the Prius per se, but I really like hybrid technology.

I look forward to a 4Runner hybrid option.

It will have advantages, like better low end torque for running larger tires.

 

I swore up and down that I'd never date a woman driving a Prius. I thought they were boring and unimaginative (this is from when I was younger and thought anyone gave a shit about what I drove). Well, cue to my Prius-driving wife and I expecting our second kid.

Hers is a 2008 (second gen?) and she drives the absolute pee out of it and it never complains. It's cheap and economical transportation at its barest essence. We take her car for most things and the runner for big family trips where we load it up with dogs and gear.

Other than a cracked hybrid coolant hose (just had to refill the coolant) it's had zero problems in 150K. Interior has seen better days. She loves it, but we'll look for a newer car soon. Maybe a hybrid Rav4.

 

The hybrid Rav4 looks good. I was shocked when I saw the EPA MPG numbers for the hybrid Highlander, which in the latest gen is about as big and heavy as the 4R. Actually a bit longer, and about 90% of the interior room. It gets something like 34 highway AND city. Amazing. Not that I'd want one LOL, but thinking about it maybe for my wife's DD.

 

I'll be all over electric once the charge times are fast and charging stations plentiful. Which is going to happen (10 more years? 15?)

Imagine the T4R retaining it's body on frame construction but with battery packs between the rails / replacing the tranny, gas tank and exhaust, and with a motor at each wheel. Or at least one on each axle. You could have a motor where the engine currently sits, and one where the rear diff is now. Center of gravity would be so low. You'd still have BOF toughness. And you will have added tons of torque and mechanical simplicity. One can dream...

 

Wait until the Prime Rav 4 comes out and check out what it gets for mpgs.

I would definitely get a Prime 4Runner......should they ever make one.

 

You should drive a Z28??!!

 

Or think outside the box to an exoskeleton design with stainless steel. Like a cybertruck. The future is here, my friend. No need to wait 15 years. 500 HP & 1000 ft/lbs

 

Is the Prius manufactured in Canada like my Corolla and Camaro?

 

Yep, xclnt electric vehicles already here or on the horizon. My point was about fast charging speed and the ability to find charging stations about as easily as you can now find gas stations. Those things are coming, but they ain’t here yet.

One wouldn’t pick an electric if you’re choice of vehicle was a matter of life or death. You wouldn’t flee zombies in an electric. Someday electricity might be a more reliable source of energy than gas. But it isn’t yet.

 

From several points of view it’s superior, but it is a paradigm shift. Especially for old timers like me who see the world through the paradigm of an ICE. But even so, I see the advantages of HP, torque, fewer moving parts, and less emissions at point of use - in fact, none.

 

LOL I feel like we're arguing even though we agree. I'm a big fan of electric. It's inherently superior to ICE in so many ways -- as I've noted numerous times in the past on this forum. Much greater mechanical simplicity and ease of maintenance. Longevity has already been proven generally better than ICE. Gobs of torque. Lower center of gravity. More vehicle design and packaging flexibility. Better AWD systems. Big environmental benefits that keep getting bigger as more and more electrical generation comes from green sources.

You're just skipping over the two big problems that I mentioned it still has: long charging times and inadequate charging infrastructure. As has been demonstrated by multiple people, trying to drive cross country in an electric requires extensive planning, avoiding routes you might rather take, substantial anxiety about the threat of running out of juice at a bad time, and long waits to refuel. You wouldn't pick an electric to flee a natural disaster where you couldn't be sure about your route or destination. You wouldn't pick an electric to make a long road trip of the kind that Americans have treasured for almost a century. In coming years we'll all be able to do those things. But we can't now. In coming years, electric will actually feel more reliable because electrical outlets are more plentiful than gas pumps. But we're not at the stage yet where all those plugs are of much use.

So let's just be honest about the current state of affairs. In addition to the above problems, the EPA range numbers are very optimistic for electrics, especially on the highway. Tesla's supposed 300+ mile cars do nowhere near that in the real world on the highway. Charging takes many hours even with a dedicated charging station at home. Using a regular electric outlet is basically a joke. Fast charging stations are few and far between and you're still talking the better part of an hour just to get to 80% full.

So, no, we're not there yet. I'm sure you'll love your Cybertruck. I'd love to have a Taycan. But I'm not going to kid myself that they have the utility of an ICE in today's world.

 

Yet, Tesla’s super charging stations are excellent. Of course, e technology will continue to improve and infrastructure needs to be extended but it’s not as distant as you portray, singleminded.

 

I'd still rather have a hybrid or electric 4runner. Cybertruck is ugly.

 

The thing is, that stuff doesn’t actually matter in the real world. I don’t have the info in front of me, we had a all sorts of crap about it presented at work but it’s something like 98% of Americans will not drive more than 200 miles in a day at least once a year. No one vehicle is perfect for everybody, but the needs of the overwhelming majority are met by today’s current EVs.

 

This is true. For a daily commuter, they are fine. Plus, the majority of people would never drive cross country.

I think @Singleminded is just pointing out that those are the things that keep people like myself from being interested in electric at this point.

Aside from being limited in range, it's pretty much better than an ICE in every way. Hell, an electric 4runner might even be fast enough to make everyone on this forum happy.

 

There'd still be some folks who'd install a pedal commander!

 

Wow. The development time for a new vehicle is at least a few years. The development time for new battery technology is at least a few years. Even when the next leap in charging speed occurs, it will take some years of development and testing to prove it works and is safe and durable. It will then take more time to be adopted by manufacturers and installed in new vehicles. Because any new vehicle, say, five years from now, is actually a vehicle that was conceived, designed and tested years prior to the availability of the then-current technology. So, you can wish that this will happen soon, but in reality it's several years away. I threw out 10 or 15 years as a guess. Thus my "?" marks. Maybe that's pessimistic. But no one knows. You don't know. It might be optimistic. Consider, Tesla has been selling EVs for 12 years and working feverishly at improving them, but the fundamental problem of long charging times and relatively low range remains.

So does the fact that the US has 150,000 gas stations but only 25,000 EV charging stations, and almost 7000 of them are in California. And only a fraction of that 25,000 have today's fastest chargers. And with real-world ranges in the 200s, the need to find a station and stop to recharge is greater than it is in almost all ICE vehicles.

As I've said all along, this will definitely change and it's going to be huge. It's going to be awesome. It's just silly to think it's going to be sooner than several years from now.

Right. Electric works well for the way many people use their cars, especially if they have houses (not city dwellers) so can charge at home overnight. I have not and would not discourage someone from buying electric. I've said on this forum that I could imagine buying electric myself in the next few years as a second or third vehicle. Because -- and this was the sole point I was making that has generated so much back and forth -- you can't currently count on an EV to take you on a long trip without a whole lot of planning, a whole lot of extra time, routes you rather not take and probably some white knuckle moments.

To wit, as reported on this forum, I recently completed a 1850 mile trip, half of which was in one day. I went about 900 miles in 14 hours. And I needed to go 900 miles in 14 hours. That would have been literally impossible in an EV. It would have required different and longer routes, plus long stops to recharge. I stopped three times for gas. Each time was along the fastest route. Each stop took about 5 minutes. If I was in an EV I would have had to stop more than that, would have had to depart from the fastest route, and would have been twiddling my thumbs for hours of total charging time combined.

This is reality. I can't wait til it changes. It's just going to be years before charging times, range and charging station availability improve to the point where ICE no longer has an important advantage.

 

My mother-in-law drives a Prius, and I have driven it when we go visit her. It's not a bad car for what it is, it is an older model so doesn't have all the new gewgaws. I really enjoy driving my 4Runner, it suits me for my personal driving needs and tasks. I can easily haul around four mountain bikes, down off road trails to trailheads, and never miss a beat. The fun car in our family is my wife's Avalon. Getting on the highway, putting it in sport mode and using the paddle shifters is so much fun. Pulling away from Camaros and Mustangs is always a treat, and driving the back highways in Missouri is exhilarating. If you haven't driven a touring Avalon with a sport mode, if you ever get the opportunity, and you have some place you can open it up oh, I highly recommend it. Disclaimer: I do not advocate driving at a hundred and twenty miles an hour, but if you can...

 

Hey singleminded, I’m with you about almost everything you say, except not many people drive 900 miles in a day, so holding e vehicles to that possibility and finding them lacking doesn’t mean much that much to me. I agree that the US and Canada needs to improve ev infrastructure, but in Europe, my brother in law in Denmark drives his Tesla all over Europe without much difficulty. When my Cybertruck arrives in 2022, I’ll give you an update about my range anxiety! I don’t think that the ev future is 15 years out.

 

I thought it might be helpful to add that the issues of range, charging times and charging-station availability intersect. They don't all need to be radically improved at once.

For example, imagine a technological breakthrough that made, say, 1000-mile ranges the norm. That would make charge times and station availability much less important. Likewise, imagine charge times of just a few minutes at most local gas stations. That would make range much less important.

A huge amount of range in particular would solve so many problems. But tackling all three issues at once, which the industry is doing, probably means greater odds of getting to a good-enough place sooner rather than later.

 

We mostly agree here. My point about my 900 mile trip in one day is that I find it important to be able to do that. I find it important to be able to take off at a moment's notice and drive almost anywhere without worrying I'll get stuck in the middle of bumfuk for lack of fuel. I personally want the freedom to explore back roads and get lost and not make my drive about the most efficient movement from point A to point B. I want the freedom to take the routes I want and not be delayed for hours with charging.

I personally put a high value on a vehicle that can do all kinds of things in all kinds of conditions with a very high degree of reliability. This is why I bought a 4Runner. It's a vehicle that can realistically go 400 miles on a tank, traverse all kinds of terrain, refuel in a few minutes almost anywhere in the country, and do it all with a very low probability of breakdown.

And it's not just me who feels this way. Many people share these same desires, even if they rarely take such drives.

Also, I never said "the EV future is 15 years out." The EV future is whatever people are willing to accept about EVs. What I estimated as 10-15 years out is a solution to the charging time / range / charging station problem that currently makes the kinds of trips I'm talking about impractical or outright impossible. What I wrote is that it's going to be several years before you can charge about as quickly and conveniently as you can fill up with gas. And that this problem is especially significant because real-world ranges are much lower than for ICEs and so charging needs to occur more frequently.

Please read what I wrote as I wrote it, not what you think it says between the lines.