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RIP 4Runner

Discussion in '6th Gen 4Runners (2025+)' started by Yotaholic, Apr 9, 2024.

  1. Apr 18, 2024 at 7:33 PM
    #361
    Rob41

    Rob41 Veteran

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    On FB groups I've read where others 5th gens have gone up more than that since the release. I knew this would happen. I'm just waiting for all the new 5th gens to get scooped up.....soon.
     
  2. Apr 19, 2024 at 7:12 AM
    #362
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    I think you may be right.... I'm an amateur finance nerd and I keep a spreadsheet and track everything quarterly including the KBB trade value of the cars. For my 2023 Pro I noted it calculating 49k in January, and just now ran the tool and it calculates 50.2k. The same 1200 as you!


    The really amazing thing is the private party sale number it gives me is basically what I pad for it new. If I could actually get that its almost begging me to trade up to a Land Cruiser :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
     
  3. Apr 19, 2024 at 7:46 AM
    #363
    broken-giver

    broken-giver BFD

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    Are you not afraid of private party sale? Last private party sale I did was for a ~5K vehicle and to meet someone, take them to local bank for cashier's check was a little unsettling. I can not imagine doing this for 50K+!

    BTW that name sounds familiar @jharkin . You on bogleheads? :)
     
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  4. Apr 19, 2024 at 8:43 AM
    #364
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    haha... yeah I probably wouldnt private party in reality + MA gives a sales tax credit on the trade which usually closes most of the gap. Just daydreaming out loud, and a bit amazed by the values. But maybe I shouldn't be, as I traded my 9 year old Tacoma for about 70% of what I bought that also.


    Uhh... yeah I am on BH. I guess I have been found out. Also spend a lot of time on a bunch of radio control hobby forums.
     
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  5. Apr 20, 2024 at 7:02 AM
    #365
    TexasFunRunner

    TexasFunRunner New Member

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    That's why my BH and other types of forum user names are usually different.
     
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  6. Apr 23, 2024 at 5:21 AM
    #366
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    Why not? Obviously, use common sense and don't go along with sketchy people. You can always walk away for any reason, there is no customer service obligations in such transactions. I heard that some police stations have 'online transactions' meetup areas right outside the station.

    For both 5K and 50K there is a risk of financial fraud, if you take reasonable precautions it could be safe. I never traded in a car, as I take care of my cars I always can get significantly more in a private sale. I always insist we go to buyer's bank so I can see them getting a cashier's check from a teller, so there is almost zero chance of fraud.
     
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  7. May 14, 2024 at 6:48 PM
    #367
    Bubblehead

    Bubblehead New Member

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    Four-cylinder turbo? nope....done w/ Toyota
     
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  8. May 15, 2024 at 5:01 AM
    #368
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    .

    IMG_0354.jpg
     
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  9. May 15, 2024 at 5:50 AM
    #369
    4R777

    4R777 New Member

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    :confused:
     
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  10. May 15, 2024 at 6:10 AM
    #370
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    Turbocharged engines are fun on the track, where you get more power out of smaller (and lighter) engine. The downside of this setup is significantly reduced reliability. This is because turbocharged engines are more complex, run hotter, put more stress on the engine block due to higher compression, and have unique modes of complete failure that are not present in the naturally aspirated engines.

    For the first owner, whom is unlikely to own the car in the old age/high miles this is not a big deal. For the last owner, it is undeniably unwanted complication.

    My prediction: In 15 years my 2024 4Runner will be worth more than 2025 4Runner.
     
  11. May 15, 2024 at 6:33 AM
    #371
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

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    You are adding a turbo, wastegate its associated clumbing and intercooler. Not really all that complex and its tech thats been revined for over 100 years.

    I would argue that VVTi, Honda iVTEC and BMW VANOS/Valvetronic are all much more complicated systems with a lot more parts too them and none have a reputation for problems.

    Yes turbos get extremely hot. Its a turbine being driven by 1000 degree exhaust gas. Its supposed to get hot. If you think that's scary dont ever look up the temperature inside the combustion chamber of a jet engine while you are flying to vacation.

    Modern turbos are made out of materials that can withstand these temps and so long as the cooling system is properly designed can handle it. The bad reputation comes from 80s turbos that didn't benefit from all the advances in materials and computer controls since then. Ive posted this before but I will again suggest reading this very informative article from the Dec 2022 R&T: https://issuu.com/thomasswift/docs/road_track_-_december_2022/s/17287818

    Ive never heard of a production car turbo engine cracking a cylinder liner due to compression. Not to say it hasn't happened... If you have references please share, I'd be interested to read.

    Can you elaborate?
     
  12. May 15, 2024 at 6:50 AM
    #372
    Sin4R

    Sin4R New Member

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    This issue is lubrication and thermal degradation of oil. I did not see details of the new turbocharged engine design, but I anticipate that it uses engine oil instead of using its own separate oil in a closed system. Both have downsides, shared design degrades your engine oil and separate lubrication system is additional, often neglected, maintenance item. Both are unwanted (to me) complications.


    Ford Focus RS comes to mind.



    7 Ways to Kill a Turbo — And How to Avoid Them

    My specific concerns are potentially catastrophic effects of bad gas by causing preignition and thermal events due to lean-out as the result of clogged injectors. In a naturally aspirated engine these common failures would be an inconvenience, in a turbocharged car these have a good chance to grenade your engine. Especially when the car is driven with a flashing check engine light, as mechanically-challenged people in our lives tend to do.

    TL;DR I had many turbo cars, some that I even liked, but they universally have more ways to fail and are more expensive to fix. While I can understand benefits of a turbo in a performance car, in a gasoline truck it is an unwanted and unwarranted complication. All that potential hassle for slightly better gas mileage is just poor trade off. I would rather pay more for gas.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
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  13. May 15, 2024 at 8:23 AM
    #373
    4R777

    4R777 New Member

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  14. May 15, 2024 at 10:49 AM
    #374
    1SilverRunner

    1SilverRunner My boy, blue

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    Agreed. More complex systems will be more prone to failure. Full stop.

    Here's a brief anecdote. I had 2008 Subaru STi Hatchback. For those unfamiliar with the platform it used DOHC Turbocharged 2.5L horizontally apposed "boxer" engine. Full time AWD system with front and rear LSD's. Electronically controlled center diff. Thing was an absolute hoot to drive. But holy cow they all start getting picky after a while. After 60k miles it started having vacuum issues, boost leaks, rich codes, lean codes. The thing leaned out one day and cracked a ring land. I didn't know until a couple weeks later. Burnt through 3 quarts of oil in two weeks and spun a rod bearing.

    I replaced the engine with a new factory block and crank. Upgraded to forged pistons, rods and ARP head studs. Rebuilt the heads. When I put it back together I upgraded the fuel system to prevent any fueling issues and familiarized myself with Subaru's open source tuning software. Thing was making about 350 lb-ft of torque at the wheels on the dyno. Kept it for another couple years in that configuration before selling it for something else. It was more reliable after allll that work than it ever was in stock configuration. Took a ton of work to get there and I really did not want to do it again. Got really tired of working in the garage and not driving.

    It was a ton of fun.... But also a lot of maintenance and wrenching.
    It was certainly one of the motivating factors for me buying the 4Runner. Tried and true old tech. Less moving parts means less opportunity for issues.

    I'm sure Toyota did their homework and 95% of these powertrains will survive their warranty period without issue. But I'm afraid that these legendary "million mile" engines are a thing of the past.
     
  15. May 15, 2024 at 10:58 AM
    #375
    2016Pro

    2016Pro Why all of the Pro hate?

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    Dumb thread
     
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  16. May 15, 2024 at 2:24 PM
    #376
    Bubblehead

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    And yet here you are in the 13th page posting in the thread
     
  17. May 15, 2024 at 6:38 PM
    #377
    Sin4R

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    With a naturally aspirated engine you'd just be down on power. People just don't understand how 'balanced on the edge of doom' turbo engines are. Then some people end up tuning them for more power, because it is next owner's problem. All while doing 10K oil change intervals.

    Another, similar example - LSPI.

    How low-speed pre-ignition can damage your direct-injection turbo engine
     
  18. May 15, 2024 at 6:42 PM
    #378
    Yobruhitsme

    Yobruhitsme New Member

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    You reading the reports of all the turbo engines in the tundra blowing up?
     
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  19. May 15, 2024 at 7:03 PM
    #379
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Why not?

    Yeah, you're right... there certainly haven't been any reliable turbo motors.

    :rolleyes:

    yup

    The engines are blowing up?

    Can you provide a single link to any situation where the engine had blown up?



    Edit: If the engines really are failing, I take this back. I was only aware of the wastegate issue.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2024
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  20. May 15, 2024 at 7:17 PM
    #380
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Do semis make you nervous, then? ;)
     
  21. May 15, 2024 at 7:25 PM
    #381
    djwantke

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  22. May 15, 2024 at 7:25 PM
    #382
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    It would certainly be stressful, with that underpowered engine constantly being pushed to the brink of failure by the turbo.
     
  23. May 15, 2024 at 7:28 PM
    #383
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Those guys must get annoyed with those unreliable turbo motors constantly failing.
     
  24. May 15, 2024 at 7:47 PM
    #384
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    No reason to concede. You have good points. I'm just not worried about the turbo 2.4.. yet.

    I personally don't see anything wrong with using a turbo to make extra power when needed, especially if the engine is designed for boost.

    When you really think about the parts that see the most stress, an I4 could potentially be stronger than a V6. Just like the best turbo diesels are generally I6's, until you get into really big stuff.
     
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  25. May 15, 2024 at 8:06 PM
    #385
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Why not give them a show? :notsure:

    I'm just here for entertainment, and to hear different opinions.
     
  26. May 15, 2024 at 8:06 PM
    #386
    Naville

    Naville New Member

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    GoMiami

    Not so fast. Hang in there...

    Almost all Semis worldwide are turbo-diesels. Diesels! That’s a big difference. You might want to fill up your tank watching this video to understand why Turbos and Diesels work so well together.

    In fact, they work so well together that in almost every geography on this planet (except N America) the new Landcruiser 250, for example, is being sold with a 2.8l Turbo-Diesel and not a 4 banger gasoline turbo engine. Because Toyota knows better and you guys who have doubts about the gas turbo power plant have the same doubts Toyota has. If it is go great, why won’t Toyota sell the 4 cylinder ANYWHERE? LoL. This is a very enlightened thread. Keep questioning…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqMyg_jJc1k
     
  27. May 15, 2024 at 8:14 PM
    #387
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Oh, boy, we've awakened chatgpt

    :rofl:

    You'd also have to be basing all of your opinions on the interests of your campaign contributors rather than facts for that to be true.
     
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  28. May 15, 2024 at 8:23 PM
    #388
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I'm not really sure how to take that, especially since I was technically a "Teamster" briefly in the late '90's when I was loading airplane bellies and aircraft containers for UPS.
     
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  29. May 15, 2024 at 8:32 PM
    #389
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Vehicle:
    2019 TRDORP, KDSS, MGM
    RSG sliders, Yakima offgrid basket, Pro-Comp wheels, SOS Streamline bumper and skids, Warn VR EVO10S winch + Ultimate Sidewinder, Bilstein 6112 + 5100 + rear lift coils, Rigid Dually SS ditch lights w/Caliraised brackets and OEM style dash switch
    Probably under an airport runway somewhere.
     
  30. May 15, 2024 at 8:45 PM
    #390
    2Toys

    2Toys Imperial Star Cruiser

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2020
    Member:
    #15337
    Messages:
    1,224
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Gordon
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    2019 4Runner TRDORP
    a few goodies
    Everybody knows that he is buried in the endzone of MetLife Stadium where the Giants play... :eek:
     
    Thatbassguy[QUOTED] and gomiami like this.

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