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Off-Road Sequence

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by Roland, May 8, 2021.

  1. Aug 28, 2021 at 2:07 PM
    #121
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    This video is interesting with the Marlin-Crawler, hence, this is slick-rock Ladies & Gentlemen. Very bad example (Advertising); unbelievable and I know people will buy into this. Trailing is much more than some slick-rock. Try to do this with the Marlin-Crawler on this spot, you're toast.

    Toast.jpg

    VW - No Crawl-Control - Maybe the guy with the Marlin in the video can do this....

    VW-No-Crawl-Control.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  2. Aug 28, 2021 at 4:08 PM
    #122
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Yikes, I'd have to pass on that.

    I'm at the age now where I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
     
  3. Aug 28, 2021 at 5:43 PM
    #123
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    You not the only one, I'm still used to brake modulation.
     
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  4. Aug 28, 2021 at 8:05 PM
    #124
    will van

    will van New Member

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    I agree, getting out of the vehicle while it’s in motion (albeit slow) is dangerous and stupid.

    Marlin and Mike Czajkowski basically invented Toyota rock crawling, but I wish they wouldn’t do that.

    Regardless, a Marlin dual case on a 5th Gen 4Runner would be badass. You’re not obligated to use the second case if you don’t need it. But it’s got to be cool to have so much gear reduction.

    I wonder if all the 4WD electronic gizmos (ATRAC, MTS, Crawl Control) would still work? They’re all based off ABS sensor and tire slippage, but things are moving so slowly in dual low range, I wonder if the computer would go haywire.
     
  5. Aug 28, 2021 at 9:17 PM
    #125
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    I have no idea why they even show this nonsense, besides for sale purpose; (making money showing this irresponsible stuff) capability ? people driving slick-rock, know you don't need this, I drove with a Sequoia Limited - Fins & Things slick-rock trail with much more incline/decline than you see in the video. Any regular 4WD SUV can do this.

    I mentioned this before, if off-roaders really want to do more difficult trails with steep incline/decline F & R lockers & re-gear. If someone wants to be the master of disaster they can go another route, like shown in the video. Sure, I can say, to each his own.

    No idea if would work taken ABS function into consideration. Since a tire generates peak grip levels right before it loses traction, it is very useful to learn how to feel when a tire is about 'lock up' under braking. I think in modern days drivers don't do threshold braking anymore or brake modulation.

    ABS has saved millions of lives, I'm all for it, but..... that's for another thread.

    Stay safe and be careful in the wild.
     
  6. Aug 29, 2021 at 3:01 AM
    #126
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    The Point of the Marlin Crawler driverless video is to show that they are not using their brakes.

    What I like about our 4Runners is ABS is turned off in 4low. In most other vehicles ABS is still on all the time. I came from Nissan Frontiers and guys were pulling a fuse to disable ABS when off road.

    These Crawl Control / Terrain Select systems are kind of fun but... being ABS based, I can start smelling my brakes cooking after using them on a trail ride.

    I probably do need to regear.
     
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  7. Aug 29, 2021 at 6:45 AM
    #127
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Those crawl boxes look fantastic for steep and rocky areas!

    Agreed about the lockers. I would gladly trade Crawl and MTS for a front locker.

    A regear won't get you anywhere near the gear reduction of a crawl box, though.

    If someone regularly drives on steep, rocky trails, and doesn't want to be cruising on the highway at ~3000 RPM's, a crawl box is a great option. Even if the promotional videos are stupid.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2021 at 9:47 AM
    #128
    will van

    will van New Member

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    You’re right. I forget that some enthusiasts do not understand how slowly a dual (or triple) case setup crawls. Exiting the vehicle makes it abundantly clear that there is no funny business going on. The vehicle actually is geared that low.
     
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  9. Aug 29, 2021 at 12:49 PM
    #129
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    I thought we were talking about off-roading, not highway cruising, sure, for most 95% or more is highway/City and maybe now & than attempting easy off-roading; you don't need to re-gear at all, and most don't even know how crawl-control works. Taking all this into consideration, the 4R is a great all-rounder, designed by Toyota engineering exactly for that purpose, reliability & easy off-roading. The next step-up you all know, is tires & lift to go from easy to moderate. It's that simple.

    Regardless, of all the above, I really wonder why on most difficult trails, from trail rigs to heavy modified Jeeps, Toyotas, Hummers they use Front & Rear lockers most are re-geared as well. Besides, in the US, Australians do heavy trailing, check it out what they are using on their rigs. Like the picture of the VW I posted, does anyone believe the driver is using a crawl-control system, come on guys. Like I said, to each his own.
     
  10. Aug 29, 2021 at 12:51 PM
    #130
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    I really wonder why on most difficult trails, from trail rigs to heavy modified Jeeps, Toyotas, Hummers they use Front & Rear lockers most are re-geared as well.
     
  11. Aug 29, 2021 at 12:58 PM
    #131
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    Sometimes, we have to disagree to agree. LoL
     
  12. Aug 29, 2021 at 1:29 PM
    #132
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Right. What I'm saying is that a crawl box can give you the benefit of lower gearing off-road without having the RPM's screaming on the highway. I guess if you're trailering your rig to the trail, this doesn't affect you.


    I would say that it's mostly to compensate for the larger tires. Of course, lower gearing is great for steep descents and climbs as well. But, a crawl box gives much greater gear reduction than any regear.
     
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  13. Aug 29, 2021 at 2:09 PM
    #133
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    I mean if the crawl-box is that good, all off-road hobbyist riding the difficult trails would take that option, which they don't; IMHO and my own experience it's not doable and dangerous because reduction is only a part of the equation.

    Something you cannot control yourself in a dangerous situation is lack of knowledge, when that is the case you not only bring your own life in danger also the life of others.

    Aviation came a very long way in automatization, far beyond automotive systems. A good thing, Sully was around, otherwise the Hudson would have looked very bloody.
     
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  14. Aug 29, 2021 at 2:26 PM
    #134
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    A crawl box is just more gear reduction. It doesn't actuate brakes or throttle like Crawl Control and Multi Terrain. The reason all enthusiast don't use them is likely that they don't need or want them, or cost. That doesn't make it any less of a valuable tool. I'm not sure why someone would promote gear reduction in the form of a re-gear, but not in the form of a crawl box.

    It sounds to me like you wouldn't be a fan of crawl control at all, as that actually takes control away from the driver. Of course you have the ability to brake and give it more throttle, but at that rate you might as well just turn it off and drive it yourself.

    I am all about driving it myself, which is why I don't rely on Crawl Control or MTS.
     
  15. Aug 29, 2021 at 3:51 PM
    #135
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    1. Your right, I should not make comments on the crawl-box, I have never used it. So, I can only go by what I observed on the video, I taught it was reckless showing a vehicle driving down slick-rock without a driver inside. A lot of talk about it, I'm curious if anyone here on the Forum has used it, to make a non biased assessment?

    2. Correct, I'm not a fan of crawl control, I think it's dangerous and misunderstood.

    3. Correct, the same for me.
     
    Thatbassguy[QUOTED] likes this.
  16. Aug 29, 2021 at 4:04 PM
    #136
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Yes, agreed! Crawl control is a very cool feature that I look at as something to try if I'm stuck. So far, though, the only thing that has really saved my ass has been the locker. Crawl control always seemed way too fast for anything I wanted to use it for even in the lowest setting
     
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  17. Aug 29, 2021 at 4:40 PM
    #137
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Which is better, a 10 mm wrench, or needle-nose pliers? Neither. They’re just tools for various applications.

    Off-road tires, Crawl Control, re-gear, diff lockers, dual transfer cases, winches, etc are all the same - they’re just tools for particular situations.

    They’re not “better” or “worse”. They’re just instruments to accomplish a particular task.
     
  18. Aug 29, 2021 at 5:10 PM
    #138
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    All you say might be correct to a certain extent, comparing tools for a certain application and using the best tool for that application can only be determined by statistical information.

    In case comparing additional Front lockers vs Crawl-Control, I can assure you having used both in different conditions that Crawl-Control is inferior and less desirable for all reasons I described in this thread.

    Front & Rear lockers will give you better results than Crawl-Control in the same conditions applied, underlining that Front & Rear lockers are much more versatile, beneficial and safer in many off-road applications.

    Regardless, of my personal opinion, thousands off-roaders will back up this claim.
     
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  19. Aug 29, 2021 at 5:23 PM
    #139
    will van

    will van New Member

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    To say that the “best” tool to accomplish a goal can only be determined by statistical information is bull-butter.

    You keep speaking in terms of “best”. Best for who? Best for what? “Best” for you and thousands of off-roaders who spend a lot of time on the trail?

    Or “best” for the casual off-road enthusiast on a budget?

    Lockers are just another tool to accomplish a goal. They have advantages and disadvantages compared to Crawl Control. They work well, but they’re expensive and advanced knowledge to set up and install. They're not "best" for everyone.

    Stop trying to categorize these tools as “best” and “worst” based on your resumé (or the resumé of thousands of off-roaders), and just describe what the tools do in factual terms that people can understand. And then people can decide for themselves what is “best” for them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  20. Aug 29, 2021 at 5:36 PM
    #140
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    Will,

    This is debating, sharing experience for the better, not a pissing match. I try to prove a point and so do you. I respect yours; please, respect mine.

    Your beliefs and opinions belong to you, nobody else. Your thoughts about a situation, with respect to yourself, is what counts. Everyone sees things with a different set of eyes. Each has the right to their views or opinions.
     
  21. Aug 29, 2021 at 5:44 PM
    #141
    will van

    will van New Member

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    Agreed. Lockers are the best.
     
  22. Aug 29, 2021 at 9:15 PM
    #142
    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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    Impressive video but unfortunately some moron with a new stock Tacoma will attempt that same maneuver with disastrous results.

    Why does the guy keep saying no lockers on the decent?

    I thought lockers were used to climb hills not go down them.
     
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  23. Aug 30, 2021 at 5:27 AM
    #143
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Yup! I haven't watched that particular video, but I get the impression that it makes it look like the crawl box completely controls the vehicle, which it doesn't. It's a cool and useful tool tool for some situations, though
     
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  24. Aug 30, 2021 at 9:24 AM
    #144
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    Absolutely, disastrous results.

    Well, the rear locker will keep your vehicle straight and avoid shooting away from you on a decline, it’s safer to keep it on.
     
  25. Aug 30, 2021 at 10:32 AM
    #145
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    I never even thought of that. Seems smart.
     
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  26. Nov 27, 2021 at 10:45 AM
    #146
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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  27. Nov 27, 2021 at 1:42 PM
    #147
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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  28. Nov 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM
    #148
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Was someone holding his beer?
     
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  29. Nov 27, 2021 at 6:41 PM
    #149
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    Ignorance is the mother of all f*cked-up people.
     
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  30. Nov 27, 2021 at 6:52 PM
    #150
    Roland

    Roland [OP] New Member

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    Do you see it coming?

    Cow-train.jpg
     
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