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Needle bearing issue?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010+)' started by COexplorer, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Sep 23, 2021 at 8:54 AM
    #121
    Mtbpsych

    Mtbpsych New Member

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    It’s not the hardest job in the world from what I’ve seen, so a good estimate for a good shop would be somewhere in the $600 range id say. I could be wrong, most members here seem to have done it themselves. Parts alone are about $100, so that leaves about $500 for labor (assuming $150/hr).
     
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  2. Sep 23, 2021 at 9:46 AM
    #122
    BroRunner

    BroRunner New Member

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    I had mine done a few years back. It was covered under warranty. From what I heard it's only about 1.5 hours work so I don't think it'd cost more than $350-400. I was worried I was going to have to pay as I was coming up to the end of my warranty so I made sure they documented the fact that I brought it in numerous times before the warranty expired.

    To get mine fixed I had to fight the dealership (they don't like to do warranty work because they get paid lower rates from Toyota corporate or something). I ended up taking it in about 6 times, they kept saying they couldn't hear it, which was a load of BS, mine was really bad. At cold temps below -30C the floor boards would shake pretty hard yet the dealership said they couldn't hear it. Everyone else who rode in my car would ask what the hell that noise was, but somehow they only hire deaf techs up here. I wish I took a video of it because it would've been a great example of what it sounds like for those trying to diagnose it. I threw the TSB in front of them to which they replied "But that's an American TSB number" so I had to pull up the Canadian equivalent TSB and they finally did it. They only replaced the needle bearing, this was before the new TSB which calls for a full diff replacement. I now have some other grumbling noises that started more recently but I'm not sure what they are yet.
     
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  3. Sep 23, 2021 at 11:08 AM
    #123
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Is it possible the new noises are the needle bearing again? I ask because others here have said warranty replacements will often eventually start making noise again, since the root of the problem isnt fixed with a new bearing.
     
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  4. Sep 23, 2021 at 11:36 AM
    #124
    BroRunner

    BroRunner New Member

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    I was wondering the same thing but the noise is definitely different this time. More of a constant groaning and it doesn't go away in 4wd. I thought it might be the wheel bearing but when I lift the vehicle up I can't feel any slop in the wheel bearing or grittiness (still could be the wheel bearing though). The CV doesn't seem to make any noise either when it rolls, and the noise doesn't get worse with steering. It seems like under more weight (i.e. after going over a bump) it gets worse for that moment.
     
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  5. Sep 23, 2021 at 4:00 PM
    #125
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Weird. Tires maybe? Is there any odd wear on them that may be the cause?

    I agree that bearings could still be a possibility. If they are, maybe they need more time before they develop any detectable slop.
     
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  6. Sep 23, 2021 at 4:08 PM
    #126
    BroRunner

    BroRunner New Member

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    We think alike. I rotated the tires to test that theory and it didn't work. So now I'm just waiting for the problem to get worse so I can figure out what it is.

    But if this goes on for another 4-5 months I'll probably just replace the wheel bearing, and possibly the needle bearing using the ECGS bushing.
     
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  7. Sep 23, 2021 at 4:14 PM
    #127
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Gotta love phantom symptoms lol. Hopefully the problem reveals itself sooner than later so you can enjoy a quite ride again
     
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  8. Sep 23, 2021 at 10:16 PM
    #128
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    It should be covered under the TSB. I could see the dealer giving you a hard time for being lifted, though.

    Mine was the same. I noticed it within a few weeks of buying it. It went away during warm weather and returned with cold weather. I had it replaced right before installing my lift.

    I wonder the same thing. However, they replaced my entire differential. The service manager told me the new differential had a different part number, so I was hoping they somehow resolved the issue. But, Toyota seems to have a habit of changing part numbers without actually changing anything on the part, so who knows?
     
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  9. Sep 24, 2021 at 1:59 AM
    #129
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    Toyota is replacing the entire front diff now, not just the bearing. I had mine done with about 6000 miles on the truck.
     
  10. Sep 26, 2021 at 3:01 AM
    #130
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    Drove 1.5 hours to the dealer and as usual the sound went away when I got there. Had my brakes done, seat belt alarm turned off, and the tech really checked out the noise. Watched him test driving it around the parking lot. He scoped it and said it looked fine inside. Blames it on the mud tires cupping. Which is possible, this is my 1st ever set of MT's. No charge on the diagnostic work but...
    $700 for brakes.

    I'll keep an eye on it. Have an extended warranty so hopefully will be ok. Sitting at 48k miles.
     
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  11. Sep 26, 2021 at 7:44 AM
    #131
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Kinda sucks the tech didnt drive it on the road. I wonder what it was he scoped?

    Ive got dealers way closer, but still hate the idea of taking mine in for this. It’s just the game I guess.
     
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  12. Sep 26, 2021 at 9:12 AM
    #132
    doxidad

    doxidad New Member

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    When my needle bearing started acting up and I took it in they told me it was tire noise. 2 weeks later I took it back in for the same thing and asked for a tech to drive it with me present. This guy took it out on the road and then on the interstate and said he heard/felt something. When getting off of the interstate I asked him to put in in 4hi and he immediately said what ever he was hearing/feeling went away. On the way back to the dealer in took it out of 4hi and back in a few times and said that there is something wrong. I told him about the TSB and offered to give him the TSB number but he said he would look it up. Anyhow, after getting back they said they found the TSB and the parts were on order and they would let me know when they come in.

    I think if you have a tech drive with you in the vehicle to prompt them with putting it in 4hi and listening you might have better luck - or maybe I just got a good one. That was 25K miles ago and over 2 years before they were replacing the t-case.

    Hope you get it resolved.
     
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  13. Sep 27, 2021 at 4:36 AM
    #133
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    If I recall, mine made the noise in the 35-40 mph range. Outside of that, it was quiet.
     
  14. Dec 5, 2021 at 4:14 PM
    #134
    Big_jarv

    Big_jarv New Member

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    Is there anything else to look for?
    I don’t have any vibration, but I do hear some kind of rattle almost like a loose screw is bouncing around. Sounds to be coming from front left.
     
  15. Dec 5, 2021 at 7:41 PM
    #135
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Hmm, rattle/loose screw isnt really how I would describe it. Does it go away in 4wd?
     
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  16. Dec 8, 2021 at 7:06 PM
    #136
    Big_jarv

    Big_jarv New Member

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    Just tried it out and still heard it in 4wd. Back to the drawing board I guess.
    Thanks for the feedback!
     
  17. Dec 8, 2021 at 7:10 PM
    #137
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    There is a rubber splash shield behind/above the upper control arm in the wheel well. It’s a floppy thing held in by plastic push pin type things. Apparently it is the source of all sorts of magical noises. Some have taken the push pins out and just zip tied them in and solved mysterious sounds. Worth a try, even if you don't think thats where its coming from.
     
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  18. Dec 9, 2021 at 7:35 AM
    #138
    Big_jarv

    Big_jarv New Member

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    Thanks for the tip will inspect this weekend.
     
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  19. Dec 9, 2021 at 8:33 AM
    #139
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Definitely worth a look. I had a clip fail on me while driving home from Florida this spring and it had me seriously freaking out for a minute! It was bouncing off the tire and vibrating the floor by the pedals. I was extremely relieved when I figured it out.
     
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  20. Dec 9, 2021 at 12:39 PM
    #140
    Matt83

    Matt83 New Member

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    I have come to accept the noises the windshield cowl and rubber splash guards make....
     
  21. Dec 11, 2021 at 8:46 AM
    #141
    Big_jarv

    Big_jarv New Member

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    So finally got around to checking and I think this was it!
    I moved the guard by hand and was able to hear the sound.
    Thanks again I appreciate it!
     
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  22. Dec 11, 2021 at 8:56 AM
    #142
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Yeah that splash shield really seems to be a pesky little thing. Next time I hear my bearing making noise, Ill zip tie my splash shields just to see if it stops the noise :laugh:
     
  23. Feb 12, 2022 at 5:00 AM
    #143
    Great Truck

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    21 4Runner small.jpg I've had several 4Runners - 88, 94, 03, 08 (my avatar) - none of which had this problem - and now a new in March 2021 Premium - pictured. I thought I heard the same noise at about 7,000 miles and by 7,500 I was sure. Read this thread, had all the symptoms of a needle bearing. The service manager took it for a test drive without me and sure enough came back and said he'd heard it - especially off the throttle, on a right hand turn decreasing speed through 48 to 38 mph, went away in 4WD. His diagnosis was "mismatched pinion gears" said it was covered on a TSB for a full front diff replacement which they did! I've only seen the TSB listed on this thread for up to 2019s. He also said, "I've heard worse." The service advisor (not the manager) had the same problem on a 2016 and replacing the needle bearing fixed it. Well, the noise is gone and I'm hopeful.

    Same day - 200 miles later. Just did a drive from VT to NH and I THINK the noise is back but different! Now its more of a rumble - same speeds, same operation - de-accelerating. I thought it was snow tires. But I'm almost positive it went away in 4WD. Stay tuned, I'll do some more testing .

    I'm back - did two more rides to test and, nope, noise seems to be gone. I thought I heard/felt it - went to switch to 4WD and I was already in 4WD. Maybe there's a needle bearing in my head that's loose!

    March 6th - Nope, not in my head. It's subtle at the moment but definitely heard it, felt it and putting it in 4WD made it dissapear - quieter and no vibration. Interesting, the service manager, after the diff replacement said he could still hear/feel it - but I wasn't sure.

    BUT - it's not the whining, grinding sound that was so loud and obvious. AND other than this - the 2021 is a great rig. Everyone talks about the TRD OffRoad, etc but the Premium suits me fine - love the pleather heated seats, heated mirrors, had to go Premium for the sun roof. And, it's Toyota engineering and quality everywhere else but this little bearing.

    I'll keep you all posted!

    OK - as promised... April 26, 2022: Had it at the dealership today. The service manager took it for a test drive and heard the noise, shift into 4WD - gone. BUT - he took a '22 he had on the lot for a drive and it did the same thing so he couldn't say it was defective. He believes its the "spider gears" in the diff. He put in a case for Toyota corporate and I called and complained. It's not the end of the world but it just shouldn't do this. The rest of the truck is pretty wonderful. I'd like a brand new 4th gen if I could!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2022
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  24. Apr 1, 2022 at 7:57 AM
    #144
    LuLu

    LuLu New Member

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    @Great Truck - I do have similar issues
    - 2WD mode - occasional clanking noise.. Like metal against metal

    But last two days... Temp rose above 70degs... no noise

    Very bad noise on cold mornings... Could temp be playing a part...
    Low diff fluids ? maybe or bad Diff

    I have booked the truck in but they dont have a master tech available
     
  25. Apr 1, 2022 at 8:21 AM
    #145
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    You had mentioned this noise in an another thread. Clanking is not at all what I would describe as the needle bearing noise. Basically, a bad needle bearing sounds like you have big mud tires on. It’s a constant whirring noise (on mine it’s between 30-45mph). And when you put it into 4wheel drive, the mud tire noise goes away.

    The clanking you are describing could be the plastic push rivets that hold the rubber splash shield on…the shield that is in the front wheel wells behind the coil/shock. Believe it or not, the plastic rivets make a very outsized noise when they move too much in their holes. You could try removing the plastic pins and use zip ties to hold the splash shield firmly in place. Or just gob some RTV/liquid gasket on the pins and let it dry.

    If you still have the noise, a clearer description of when you hear the clank, road surface when you hear it, turning or straight ahead, speed it occurs at, duration, where you think it’s coming from, etc.

    A bad diff would be furthest from my mind with a clanking noise. Clanks come from thing banging into each other sharply, not spinning things.
     
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  26. Apr 26, 2022 at 3:35 PM
    #146
    Great Truck

    Great Truck New Member

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    I agree - clanking is not the noise at all. But on a new rig? Please keep us posted as to what you find it is!!!
     
  27. May 13, 2022 at 4:36 AM
    #147
    Great Truck

    Great Truck New Member

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    YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS BUT I'M HOPEFUL! The Toyota Customer Care folks AND the TAS submitted by the dealer resulted in a regional Toyota tech coming to check it out. They took it all apart and are ordering another full front diff and a new driver's side axle. Including the original diff - this will be the 3rd one! The noise has subsided with the over 70 degree heat but the tech clearly was digging in hard. Parts on order and I'll keep you all posted!
     
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  28. May 13, 2022 at 6:34 AM
    #148
    LuLu

    LuLu New Member

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    Do you know if they are ordering the same 'Full front diff' with same part numbers or a superseded version.
    Same might produce similar results down the line in cold seasons -- Just a hunch (not fact based)

    According to the parts department, they said the replacement differential for mines is not even available in the country. The part numbers are different from those in stock.
     
  29. May 13, 2022 at 7:42 AM
    #149
    Great Truck

    Great Truck New Member

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    LuLu - GREAT QUESTION that I will ask today! Is there a superseded version being produced? I would certainly hope so!!! Even worth waiting for. I'm also very interested in seeing what happened to the front axle that required replacement (was is "injured" with 10K of vibration or did it get bunged up with during the replacement of the diff?). I'm really glad they are taking it all seriously and putting time and effort into finding a solution!!
     
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  30. May 13, 2022 at 7:55 AM
    #150
    MyWyfsRnnr

    MyWyfsRnnr Have you seen the mall?

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    It has been a design flaw (and continues to be one). My cousin is a Toyota Mechanic and 2022 still have a needle bearing with the same issues! The dealerships are also installing 2" spacer lifts without addressing the bearing issue and getting come backs that they are doing warranty work on. Seems like a waste but that's the factory for you.
     
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