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Lower control arms issue

Discussion in '4th Gen 4Runners (2003-2009)' started by Sourkraut, Mar 9, 2022.

  1. Mar 9, 2022 at 11:19 PM
    #1
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Recently got a lift and bigger tires, was informed by the tech that they couldn’t properly align because the LCAs are not proper 4runner arms, obviously did not know when I bought the truck. It drives almost perfectly straight but I know I need to fix it. Mcgeorge Toyota has genuine arms for 295 each, but I’ve read a couple threads of people using cheaper replacements and nobody had anything bad to say. Other than the arms, is there anything else(like hardware) I need to order along with them? I’m fairly new to this stuff.
     
  2. Mar 10, 2022 at 3:56 AM
    #2
    slixx1320

    slixx1320 New Member

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    Unless the arms were taken from a chevy and made to fit your 4runner, I think the tech doing the alignment has no clue. If it wasn't the correct arm the vehicle would not be driving straight and alignment prior to you lifting would've been off (you mentioned drives perfectly straight).

    Do you have UCA? If so, he's probably trying to get them all back to "ZERO" or close to the green zone and can't hit it. My guess?? Instead of him trying to explain to you why he couldn't get it aligned he probably just said buy new arms. For whatever reason, the LCA bushings could be completely torn and worn out thus not being able to align properly. Next time, just tell him, set my caster to max (regardless if it shows out of tolerance) and my toe and camber in spec.

    Ohh and if you do buy LCA, don't get detroit arms. You'll end up re-doing the work again in another month. I recommend rebuild your old arms with new components.
     
    Superdave1.0 likes this.
  3. Mar 10, 2022 at 9:00 AM
    #3
    iamincrediboy

    iamincrediboy New Member

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    As long as your old arms' LBJ is fine you can rebuild with new bushings. Then follow above poster's input on alignment. If not it takes a hot minute to get the old bushings out but thats the easiest route. If LBJ is bad, you can either replace it with a Moog HD joint - theyve been getting better in quality, though not OEM - and go from there. Or, new arms is an easy choice. If you want to jump to aftermarket there are plenty of options too :cheers:
     
  4. Mar 10, 2022 at 4:37 PM
    #4
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    it drives *almost* perfectly straight, with a slight pull to the left at times, the steering wheel is also slightly off center. It seemed to be perfectly aligned before the lift and tires. The UCA are stock and don’t plan to change them.

    You mentioned bushings, how would I know if they are worn? I’d love to not replace the entire arms if I don’t have to. I do what I can mechanically but this suspension stuff is foreign to me. Can I check on the bushings fairly easily myself, or do I need to bring it to a shop?
     
  5. Mar 10, 2022 at 5:31 PM
    #5
    qcTRDct

    qcTRDct New Member

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    Could it be that he is actually referring to the eccentric bolts that hold the LCA's in place, and allow for any alignment related adjustments? A 2004 that hasn't been aligned all that often will likely have corroded frozen eccentrics. If THAT is what needs to be replaced , be sure to use a grease-able replacement. Moog probably makes one.
     
  6. Mar 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM
    #6
    slixx1320

    slixx1320 New Member

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    If it drives straight but steering wheel is just slightly off center can be adjusted using the tie rods. Did the tech do your alignment? Do you have the results of your alignment? Maybe post up a picture?

    If you go under the car and visually inspect the LCA bushings you should be able to tell whether or not they're bad. You can also take a pry bar and pry it from behind to see if you see movement. I'm pretty sure (depending on your miles) the bushings are all shot. If you're not sure just take it to a mechanic and have them inspect it.

    See link for some pics. or watch this video and forward it to 1:21
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY2FS1ZqtBk
     
  7. Mar 10, 2022 at 7:44 PM
    #7
    Superdave1.0

    Superdave1.0 New Member

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    How many miles on the truck? If the control arms are still the originals from 2004 you can pretty much assume the bushing are bad. I'd also recommend new complete LCA, moog or OEM.
     
    BionicRandy likes this.
  8. Mar 15, 2022 at 4:02 PM
    #8
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Nothing looked worn to me so I brought it into the shop, he says they can’t align it how it is, and I either need to buy a spindle or bring it back down to stock height. The lift isn’t anything crazy, ome 884/895e with 5100s at the stock setting. Not really sure what to do now. Probably gonna end up taking it to a dedicated off road suspension specialist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
  9. Mar 15, 2022 at 4:05 PM
    #9
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    164k. I just had it inspected and was told I either need a spindle or to remove the suspension lift, nothing about the control arms.
     
  10. Mar 15, 2022 at 6:29 PM
    #10
    Superdave1.0

    Superdave1.0 New Member

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    You can't see the LCA bushings completely, unless you remove LCA from the vehicle. Two people here have told you the bushings are likely shot, just from age and definitely from your mileage. But what do I know, I have only done lift kits on over 60 Tacomas and over a dozen 4runners. They might be ok, but I'm telling you they are likely worn out.

    Try a second alignment shop. If they also tell you they can't align it, then you need to start replacing wear items, like LCA bushings.
     
  11. Mar 16, 2022 at 5:18 AM
    #11
    slixx1320

    slixx1320 New Member

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    If you're in So Ca, hit up @Superdave1.0, he works on Toyota he can help guide you.
     
  12. Mar 16, 2022 at 9:38 AM
    #12
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    I’m not doubting you know what you’re talking about, just telling you what I was told. They said the bushings are “cracked but not worn”, and thats not what’s preventing the truck from being aligned. He says I either need a spindle kit, or I need to remove the suspension “because something about it doesn’t agree with your car”.

    slixx1320 says you work on Toyotas in so cal. Are you near Orange County?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
  13. Mar 16, 2022 at 10:58 AM
    #13
    Superdave1.0

    Superdave1.0 New Member

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    I'm near Long Beach. So they confirmed your lca bushings are cracked. That means worn/need replacing. Whether or not they are the reason for your bad alignment, they should be addressed to rule it out, they are suspect.

    Again I'd get a 2nd opinion from a different alignment shop.
     
  14. Mar 16, 2022 at 4:57 PM
    #14
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    I’ll be getting a second opinion tomorrow morning. What would be the reason for needing spindles?
     
  15. Mar 16, 2022 at 5:54 PM
    #15
    Superdave1.0

    Superdave1.0 New Member

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    Would only need spindles if they were bent. They are thick metal. They can bend from a collision or very hard offroading.
     
    BionicRandy likes this.
  16. Mar 16, 2022 at 8:15 PM
    #16
    BionicRandy

    BionicRandy New Member

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    “The UCAarestock and don’t plan tochange them.” You have 5100s with 884/895s, that is about as high as you can go. You can probably eliminate the problems with aftermarket UCAs. Btw, if the cam bolt bushings are trash then the UCA bushings most likely are too. By putting a lift on a suspension with old worn out bushings you are asking for trouble. Those bushings keep the control arms aligned and at the correct angles. If bushings are trashed those angles are not right and somewhere there’s some additional stress going on. Lastly, like others have suggested, get another opinion. Those guys telling you that you need a spindle to fix it…that doesn’t even make sense. Find another shop.
     
    Superdave1.0 likes this.
  17. Mar 16, 2022 at 8:45 PM
    #17
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Clearly I didn’t know what I was getting myself into.
    Any suspension specialists in the area you’d recommend? Long Beach is close to me and I’m not familiar with any shops other than the one I just went to.
     
  18. Mar 16, 2022 at 10:05 PM
    #18
    Superdave1.0

    Superdave1.0 New Member

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    I'm the best suspension guy I know when it comes to 4runners and Tacomas. I don't have an alignment machine to see what is out of spec though.

    See what the 2nd alignment shop recommends. If they can't align or give you a clear answer, you can swing by my place.
     
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  19. Mar 16, 2022 at 10:37 PM
    #19
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Will do, thanks.
     
  20. Mar 17, 2022 at 4:25 PM
    #20
    RonT4R

    RonT4R New Member

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    Are your lower control arm cam bolts frozen? I had to cut and replace mine, I made sure to add a lot of anti-seize prior to reinstallation. Only way to adjust your lower control arms.
     
  21. Mar 17, 2022 at 11:06 PM
    #21
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Could very well be, the truck spent some time on the east coast before coming to California.
     
  22. Mar 21, 2022 at 11:20 AM
    #22
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    Update if anyone is interested. Took it to a local Toyota specialist who said they’d take a look at it for free. Took about an hour and a half for them to call and tell me the cam bolts were installed upside down are were loose…. This also explains an occasional creaking noise. Unfortunately they don’t do alignments, but I’ve got an appointment for Wednesday at a new shop, hopefully these guys don’t find a way to screw something else up.
     
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  23. Mar 21, 2022 at 12:01 PM
    #23
    iamincrediboy

    iamincrediboy New Member

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    PLEASE tell us someone got pictures of this ridiculousness... if they were loose thats forgivable. if they were upside down HOLY negligence
     
  24. Mar 21, 2022 at 12:07 PM
    #24
    Sourkraut

    Sourkraut [OP] New Member

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    I didn’t even think to ask, too busy wondering how a paid tech could botch something that bad. This is a shop my family has gone to for almost 2 decades, and generally have done good honest work. Needless to say I will not be going there for suspension ever again.
     
  25. Mar 21, 2022 at 2:00 PM
    #25
    slixx1320

    slixx1320 New Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the cam bolts supposed to be able to rotate 360 degrees? Being upside down should be normal if your vehicle requires it to be in that orientation when alignment was done.
     
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  26. Mar 21, 2022 at 2:17 PM
    #26
    iamincrediboy

    iamincrediboy New Member

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    I admittedly cant find any like OEM or strictly technical reference about up vice down. However I think many of us can attest to having been taught 'best engineering practice' mindset of install them up since thats the direction the alignment marks on the cam point. Though, they can indeed be rotated all the way around as needed. I'd also venture that none of us have such a wild deviation on our frame design that we started with the cam facing up and then needed such an adjustment they then face down to get back into alignment.
     
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