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Lift Kit Ideas/Suggestions

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Backslider, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. Nov 29, 2017 at 2:19 PM
    #31
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    I wouldn't call 2.5" a mild lift. 3" is the max. The OME 2884 coils he is using are 3" lift coils.
     
  2. Nov 29, 2017 at 3:54 PM
    #32
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    Fair enough. I'm not up to speed on the lift parameters of various coils... though I think of "mild" as anything that doesn't involve cutting and welding!
     
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  3. Nov 30, 2017 at 10:28 AM
    #33
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    Thats a good thing to know about Firestone. Thanks!

    So the springs i got me stated that its a 3 inch for the front:
    upload_2017-11-30_10-24-37.jpg

    And a 2 inch for the rear:
    upload_2017-11-30_10-26-24.jpg

    Isnt it cutting it close to having UCA's or not? I didnt purchase the UCA's yet.... I want to be sure =)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Nov 30, 2017 at 11:55 AM
    #34
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    Yeah its cutting it close but personally I would do it without UCAs. If you end up needing them then get them later. I would bet you won't need them and even if it's close, the alignment shop can get you "good enough" on the stock UCAs.
     
  5. Nov 30, 2017 at 12:08 PM
    #35
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    Again if you have the coin go for it. Without the UCAs you'll never have a decent caster spec, so it will be more twitchy on the highway and not want to track as straight. On top of that you will have uneven tire wear due to too much positive camber. But like @MeefZah said you can always try it without them and see how it turns out. Just make sure when you get an alignment to find somebody who knows how to align lifted vehicles, you will need to get as much caster as possible while keeping all the other specs within factory range. This is nearly impossible to do without aftermarket UCA's. Aftermarket UCA's are either adjustable or have added caster built into the design. Again highly RECOMMENDED but not MANDATORY in all cases
     
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  6. Nov 30, 2017 at 12:13 PM
    #36
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    im getting them.... hahah thank you!
     
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  7. Dec 1, 2017 at 5:30 AM
    #37
    Gramps

    Gramps New Member

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    Some Old Guy that knows nothing
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    Just some stuff to make mall crawling easier.
    So what is the benefit of the JBAs over SPC? I have had SPCs and the adjustability of the BJ is key for a solid alignment and reducing rubbing without cutting. The JBA appears to be a fixed BJ with +2° caster built in like most uniball UCA's.

    Pocket friendly yes, but performance I am not sold on yet. Somebody sell me on them.
     
  8. Dec 1, 2017 at 6:49 AM
    #38
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Gun Nerd

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    I agree with this 100%. If it's not within reason economically you'll get by without them, but if it doesn't hurt throwing down the ~$500 you should do it now. Doing it now also gives you some future upgradeability to go bigger if you so desire.
    1: You will never need more than 2 degrees of additional positive caster for a 3" lift. I think you only get up to 4 degrees from the SPC anyway.. So there may be instances where they are preferred to JBA for this reason, but not with a ~3" lift.
    2: Are they really more "pocket friendly" than SPC? I would call SPC on the less expensive end as well, with their prices being within 5% variance of the JBA.
    3: The upper nut on the ball joint on SPC tends to come loose
    4: SPC ball joints have been known to separate
    5: JBA has a greater full range of motion
    6: JBA ball joints are easier to replace


    I would put SPC and JBA pretty close to one another in performance, but for the reasons listed above I would personally go with JBA. That being said I'm running Zone Offroad on my Tundra and they are pretty fantastic. I'm still running stock UCAs on my 4runner.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  9. Dec 1, 2017 at 10:45 AM
    #39
    Gramps

    Gramps New Member

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    Just some stuff to make mall crawling easier.
    Interesting. I have never seen point 3 happen unless the nut is under torqued. Point 4 can happen to any BJ or uniball. I actually haven't seen an SPC BJ that has come apart. Yes it is possible but just have not encountered that.

    Definitely good and bad both sides. When JBA first came out they were using Moog BJs. Is that still the BJ they use?

    I am curious to see how the ICON Delta Joint does in terms of long term reliability. That appears to be a great solution to uniballs just not sure how long they will last.
     
  10. Dec 1, 2017 at 11:11 AM
    #40
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Gun Nerd

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    Spent all my gun money. =(
    I've never personally seen an SPC ball joint separate, but I have seen images and read a number of times that this has happened - most of this reading happened on other 4runner or Tacoma forums.

    These are the reasons that I would personally go with JBA over SPC in this price range. I'm completely open to ideas that would make me change my mind though!
     
  11. Dec 1, 2017 at 1:38 PM
    #41
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    If I remember right SPC had some issues early on but I think they addressed them. Although I don't remember if it was the BJ that was the problem. Have you looked at the Camburg BJ option? I am running them and they work well...

    https://wheelersoffroad.com/product...oint-set-with-moog-ball-joints-pre-installed/
     
  12. Dec 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM
    #42
    Gramps

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    Just some stuff to make mall crawling easier.
    I am not here to change your mind. Just openly discuss the options, hear experiences, and offer advice. Sounds like they are close in comparison. Both having advantages and disadvantages.

    Yeah SPC definitely did have issues earlier in production, but since they changed the way they weld the arms and have moved to their new greaseble BJ, all issues have disappeared for now.

    My biggest concern is the MOOG BJ being used itself. Talking to Toyota master techs Moog does not have the best history for longevity. I am toiling with this issue now with LCA's for my 2nd gen taco. Toyota does not make an OEM replacement for the LCA, you can only get a Moog replacement. On the flip side, I am not sure I want to mess with a uniball LCA from TC or Dirt King. High maintenance and noisey.
     
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  13. Dec 1, 2017 at 5:25 PM
    #43
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    The above posts are perfect examples of why I don't believe that aftermarket UCAs are a benefit. Unless you absolutely have to have them to get your alignment inspec, aftermarket UCAs are more trouble than they're worth. Not only is there the initial cost of buying them and installing them, but they require maintenance, unlike the OEM units. Additionally, they often times squeak and make all manner of other noises, especially when the truck is used off-road and they get dirty / dusty / muddy. Finally, there is no dispute that their design is structurally weaker than that of the OEM. Have you ever heard of an OEM UCA failing?

    Again, coming from someone who once had a reputable brand of UCAs on their 4Runner, I would never put aftermarket UCAs on a truck again unless I had to to accommodate the lift.

    I think I said in another thread that I'm kind of a lift nerd, and whenever I see another lifted vehicle in traffic or parked I'm always evaluating what their setup is. I would wager that 90% + of lifted vehicles I see around here, and California is probably the capital of lifted vehicles in this country, are still running stock UCAs. Obviously I can't comment on what their alignment or handling is like, but all of those vehicles appear to drive straight and track true, and the wheels aren't cockeyed at crazy angles. I truly believe that the manufacturers of these components have promoted them to the point that people believe that they're necessary...but they aren't.
     
  14. Dec 4, 2017 at 9:39 AM
    #44
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    I see where you are coming from and I was of the same mind a while back when I lifted my Tacoma. I did a 2.5" on my Tacoma with stock UCA's, got it aligned and the tech said that was the best he can do. The numbers were close or within factory limits. Drove it away and it felt fine, not great just fine/good enough. Got it on the highway and it was a bit of a rodeo but I could deal with it. Drove it with stock UCA's for 5k or so and started to notice the tire wear being uneven due to too much positive camber. Went to get it aligned again and the tech (different guy this time) said nothing more they can it it was maxed out. On top of that the wandering on the highway was bad enough that my wife would not drive it anymore. I didn't think the wandering was that bad but I drove it all the time and got used to it.

    So my wife gave me the go ahead to buy UCA's to fix the issues. After the alignment with the new UCA's it drove perfect down the highway and all my alignment specs were easily within factory limits and the tire wear evened out. I wasn't too excited to spend that kind of coin on something that I thought would make little to no difference but it honestly the best $500 I spend on my Tacoma.

    Sold the Taco and when it came time to lift the 4Runner it was a no brainer for me...
     
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  15. Dec 4, 2017 at 10:09 AM
    #45
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    I respect that. Obviously opinions - and truck specs - vary. On my '14, with my original 2.5 spacer lift, stock UCAs got me exactly in spec. When I upgraded to the 2.5 BOSS lift, it was the same. I added the TC UCAs and there was no benefit for me. I wanted to present that opinion to the poster asking so he had some other thoughts to consider on the matter.
     
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  16. Dec 4, 2017 at 10:21 AM
    #46
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    I appreciate all this feedback. People have different experiences with the same kind of install. Its true, no truck is the same... i just want to be prepared and rather pay some one 1 time to install everything instead of paying someone to install parts of it then see what happens to paying them again to install UCA's....

    I just ordered JBA UCA's so i cant wait!
     
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  17. Dec 4, 2017 at 11:40 AM
    #47
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    So with buying shocks, springs and UCA's... Would i also have to buy hardware? I notice when you purchase "complete lift kits" they come with a bunch of little shiiiiii.... But, since i have hand picked each shock, spring and UCA, how do i know what im missing? Im also thinking if i just go to an offroad spot to have everything installed, they would maybe have all those extra hardware that i would need?
     
  18. Dec 4, 2017 at 12:04 PM
    #48
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    You shouldn't need anything else. You will either reuse factory hardware or each individual item will come with all hardware needed.
     
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  19. Dec 5, 2017 at 6:02 PM
    #49
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    Springs and shocks arrived!

    20171205_174923.jpg
    20171205_174854.jpg
     
  20. Dec 5, 2017 at 7:21 PM
    #50
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    Make sure you dig through the box @Wheeler's Off-Road Inc always sends candy with every order!
     
  21. Dec 5, 2017 at 8:03 PM
    #51
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    i did see it hahaha i was like wtf????? but then thats cool too.... it did have a sticker on the side that says.... please call or email within 5 days of receiving the item if there is anything missing.... i have no idea if anything is missing.... as long as i see the 4 shocks and 4 springs.... i guess im good?
     
  22. Dec 6, 2017 at 8:54 AM
    #52
    brochacho

    brochacho New Member

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    All the hardware for the shocks should be in the box and the springs are just springs only. You should be good to go.
     
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  23. Dec 6, 2017 at 9:50 AM
    #53
    r0nnierae

    r0nnierae New Member

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    Have any idea on what my install quotes would be? I just wanna make sure when i start calling around that im getting a reasonable price...
     
  24. Dec 6, 2017 at 10:00 AM
    #54
    MeefZah

    MeefZah Curmudgeonly

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    About 3-4 hours labor, plus an alignment; I'd suggest a second alignment after 1000 miles.

    Obviously hourly labor cost varies with each place but the involved hours should be the same.
     
  25. Dec 15, 2017 at 4:35 PM
    #55
    Blas_hafAloha

    Blas_hafAloha New Member

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    Nice simple setup.
    My wife pulled my ear and a 4runner came out my ass. She didnt want 4WD, becuase its for the family... (eye roll) now she wants running boards and new set of shoes (K02s).
    i figured I can squeeze in a budget lift to level things out and complete the look. I like the idea of running adjustable 5100's in front and not having to touch the rear for a nice leveled look.

    I have 2 questions for you that I couldn't find answers for. Maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough.

    1. Can I get away with original Springs up front with the 5100s at ~2" ?
    2. Are your 33s rubbing?
     
  26. Dec 15, 2017 at 5:01 PM
    #56
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Gun Nerd

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    Yes, you can get away with using the factory springs and setting the 5100s to 1.75" or 2" - if you use the circlip and perches with the shock those are your options. I'm using them in a vated adjustable coil so you can dial in the height anywhere between 0-3"

    My tires are close to 32s (275/70r17), and they don't rub at all with a -19.75 offset. I did have to trim the front bumper and remove the spats on the rear of the front wheel well though.

    They don't list this on the site, but they will build this coilover around a Bilstein 5100.

    http://4x4.fatbobsgarage.com/toyota-4runner-3-adjustable-coilovers-2003-2017-p33910.aspx
     
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