Lift causing issues

Hi gang,

Well, thus far I'm regretting having my truck lifted. Five years of it driving perfectly smooth at all speeds and now it drives horribly.

First, this is one of the most interesting videos on 4runner lifts I've ever seen. Thoughts?

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+...ate=ive&vld=cid:2d8def6f,vid:-W5TfPnEBTM,st:0

Issues:

1. Steering wheel shakes at 45 mph and up. You can feel it in the seat and floor too. (I looked closely at the front end and the camber seems to be off - front tires are leaning inwards a tiny bit. Maybe it's just that the wheels aren't balanced well enough. I dunno.

2. Even though they completely removed the plastic liners in the front wheel wells to stop the rubbing from the larger tires (initially they said they were just going to do some trimming which I would have preferred but instead he just unscrewed the entire panel on both sides), they still rub when backing up and turning the wheel hard to the left.

3. Having a tough time with professionality and communication at shop who did the work. Won't go into too much detail but I'm definitely looking for a new shop if anyone knows a good place in the Tampa Bay area.

Bottom line, I never wanted to lift the truck and put on 33" (285/70/17) tires. The plan was always just to leave the suspension stock and upgrade the tires but keep the same size (265/70/17). So far, I'm regretting doing the lift. Having KDSS, I was VERY leery of touching the suspension but I was convinced that the Westcott Designs Preload Collar Lift was perfect for the build.

https://westcottdesigns.net/product...AYkaSfIw6LBTkTPns3DF8aBHTuY7pHOYaAsUREALw_wcB

I'm just very disappointed (and a little angry honestly) having spent so much money and now the truck is driving worse in the abovementioned ways. Not sure how to handle this. In the end, might just have the lift removed and have 265/70/17s put back on, how it came from the factory and was the sweetest driving vehicle I've ever owned. Thanks to anyone who can steer me (no pun intended) in the right direction.

I found this video on Youtube titled "DO NOT LIFT YOUR 4Runner" which discusses how you need to raise your "pan hard rod" which was level stock, but then gets put at an angle with a lift. Perhaps that has something to do with the steering wheel shaking and front end shaking, the tires camber being off inwards, etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+...ate=ive&vld=cid:2d8def6f,vid:-W5TfPnEBTM,st:0

I know this was long-winded but I appreciate any help I can get. I miss my "old" truck.

Thanks,
JB

 

your problem screams tires. What brand of tires are you running? I had this same event and took it to the dealership, they had it all of 30 minutes and said, for us to diagnose this correctly, first you need new front tires. Put on new front tires and everything cleared up. Id start with tires and alignment

 

Thanks
morfdq


Well, just had brand new Falcon Wildpeak AT4s put on so in theory shouldn't be that. But agreed, the alignment is not right. What tires did you have on that were causing problems? And what did you switch to? I went with Falcon Wildpeaks because they had such great reviews. On my old lifted F150 I had both K02s and then Toyo Open Country and never had a problem with either one. The guy who did my build said KO2s are notoriously hard to balance or I would have gone with those!

I just had a half hour conversation with another local builder and I'm taking the truck to him in a couple weeks. He thinks that part of the problem is that (despite what Wescott says on their website - that you do NOT need to replace your UCAs), I need to upgrade the UCAs. So trusting him, I ordered what he recommended: aftermarket UCAs from JBA Offroad:

https://jbaoffroad.com/jba-std-high...DugR3SbiK_wKn0oauAI_yjqJqHV11Nx4aAsNoEALw_wcB

He's going to install those, do a full diagnosis of the suspension, etc., and take it to a shop that specializes in alignment that he takes all his builds to. So I think finding this new shop (way more professional and better communication than the current shop - that's a conversation for another thread - or maybe a private conversation), I'm moving in the right direction.

Last, the new shop is not a big fan of the Westcott Preload Collar Lift. He likes the company, but doesn't think that was the proper lift for my truck. So, depending on what he diagnoses, I may be going with a full lift rather than just the space lift. We'll see.

JB

 

The solution is really pretty simple: return it to stock.

I’ve been down this rabbit hole with my wife’s ORP (no KDSS). She wanted it lifted, I didn’t want the hassle (I do the wrenching)

Installed the Eibach stage 1 lift after the 3/36 warranty expired, which was genuinely a significant improvement over the stock suspension handling, but made the truck look stupid with stock-sized BFG KO2s. The spring rates and damping are excellent, but I really wish it was around +1” up front with stock height rear instead of the +2.5” Front/+1.5” rear I got out of my set.

Dealt with that until they need to be replaced md went with 285/70 Toyo AT3s. In the grand scheme of modifications, it’s not terrible, but I feel the handling is adversely affected. Whatever, her car; happy wife, happy life.

 

thank you. Yeah so here was my journey. I had/have Toyo AT3s (love them). I noticed that they were wearing uneven so i took it for an alignment. The caster/camber bolts were seized so I had OEM lower control installed. Then successfully got an alignment BUT i kept feeling a vibration in the floor board and it occurred between 35-50 mph. I had taken it to the dealership 3 times. Each time they said you need tires. On the third time, to prove it to me they took 4 wheels of a new 4R and test drove it and it was flawless. Did you get your tires Road Force balanced? You have to get that alignment done. With the tires costing about 350 each that can get costly if they wear uneven. People may disagree with me BUT i take my 4R to Firestone for the alignment. Why? Each shop has to maintain the alignment software yearly, that costs money. Many shops wont do it and will use the alignment settings for a 2019 when yours is a 22. Firestone maintains their software. Start with the basics. Get the alignment and get the tires rebalanced at a different shop. Discount Tire has Road Force.

 

Good alignment and tire balance. Then reinstall your front fender liners before you drive over a puddle and hydro lock your engine...

Honestly this is similar to my first suspension and tire setup. Finally found a shop that specialized in Toyotas and set me down the right path.
Jeep shops ruin these vehicles. As simple as IFS can be there are a few details that seem lost on so many in the industry.

Edit: I'd honestly ditch the spacer lift and just run the 285s with stock suspension. Take it to a toyota specialist. A good body mount chop and some trimming is all you need for the rubbing. 285's on stock suspension is a decent combo.

And yes I have those Falkens (except in 34") they need to be road force balanced.

 

Everyone has different use requirements and tolerances to deviation from stock ride characteristics. Suspension modification is by nature somewhat of a rabbit hole.

You have and will get plenty of good advice for maximizing the setup you have or improving upon the spacer lift at current height but you may just end up being one of those people who are happier with stock.

Good luck sorting it out.

 

Thank you.

Honestly, that may very well be what's going to happen. I just can't believe I've spent so much money (and don't really have much left to spend on this) only for performance downgrades.... oh the irony. I mostly use the truck as my daily driver on asphalt and tow my boat about once per month and it was fine the way it was - better I should say. It just would have been nice to have a little more height at the boat ramp on low tide when you have to back your boat/trailer super far down the ramp in order to float the boat (I wanted to keep the rear end of the truck out of the saltwater). This all started because I finally needed to replace the worn stock Dunlop 265s that came on the truck and were actually pretty good tires on both street and the little bit of camping/trail I do.

 

Thanks man. Yeah, probably going to either be get rid of spacer lift (or improving as you say) or return to stock with new 265s. But wow, what a waste of money on brand new 285s! And of course all the labor cost!!!

 

Thank you.

Yes they did road force balance the tires. I'd hate to think that brand new tires are the problem. I'm thinking it's a number of issues, e.g. caster/camber as you mentioned, poor alignment, maybe poor balancing, maybe needing new UCAs is a factor... I found a new guy who has the best reviews on the planet so taking it to him for full diagnosis in two weeks. If he can make it smooth again with current setup that would be my preference but if not, back to stock and listing NEAR BRAND NEW Falcon Wildpeak AT4 285/70/17 for whoever will give me a fair price.

 

Thank you.

Agreed! The new guy I found claims he has a dynamite alignment guy so if that's the issue, that would be nice. The current shop road force balanced them so I'd like to believe it's not a poor balancing issue.

Do you like your Falkens? I would have gone with KO2s or Open Country (had them both on my old F150 with a 6.5' lift and 35s and never had a problem!).

I called the current shop and he said they threw out my front fender liners. Great.

So the shop who did the work is a Toyota/Lexus specialty shop. I won't name them in the case that that's inappropriate or unprofessional on this forum but at this point I'd sure love to! For starters, to quote him: "You can't run 285s without a lift". But, I believe you, that you can, as you mentioned, go 285s with stock suspension. I'll discuss that with the new shop I'm going to in a couple weeks. The new guy spent a sold half hour on the phone with me and was twice as professional and knowledgeable as the current shop. Though it's going to break the bank no matter what decision we decide on, from our conversation I believe I'm on the right path.

 

Please dont "assume" because they said they road force balanced them, they actually did. They can do a static balance using the same machine. What I do is go to DIscount Tire, when i see my truck get pulled in, I walk outside, give the guy $10 and tell him, I want the good road force balance. Also, my buddy in Texas has told me that Discount tire will buy your "new" tires from you. So if you wanted to go to a Toyo or other tire, thats an option for ya.

 

Glad to know you’re getting it sorted.

I like the Falkens, but they are heavy and a bitch to balance properly. If the steering wheel is shaking at cruising speed a proper balance is the cure.

You can certainly fit 33’s without a lift. Also top hat spacer lifts have some big downsides on these rigs so I’d remove them and rock the stock suspension and 285’s for now.

In the future if you want a lift avoid spacers lifts. Springs for lift, shocks for control. Spacers are reserved for correcting lean. Also, don’t lift more than 2-2.5” unless you’re willing to shell out some more money on UCA’s. One reason the vehicle handles poorly now is the lift removed your ability to dial in enough caster during your alignment.

normal IFS things man. I went through a similar experience with the first shop I went to. Told me I needed a lift and ended up with leaking shocks within a year. Did it again the right way and now I love the way it drives and it’s incredibly capable for a 4Runner

See post 19 and 20 if you’re curious how bad I got hustled by a jeep shop who claimed to “Know Toyotas”
https://www.4runners.com/threads/silverrunners-build-and-adventures-thread.43247/

 

Im leaning towards tire rebalance, alignment recheck and double check all suspension fasteners and lug nuts are torqued to spec. Could be that brand lift but im having my doubts thats the problem but it could be with those spacers

my 2011 has a 2” bilstein lift with 74000 miles on it with Falken WP AT3 in 285/70 17 with zero issues.

my 2022 has a 2” bilstein lift with 52000 miles on it with Falken WP AT3 in 285/70 17 with zero issues

both have stock uca, lca and stock rear panhard bar

Agreed about new shop to diagnose whats happening

 

Thanks to everyone who has input such valuable and experienced knowledge. I’m a little bit new to the suspension game but very knowledgeable about boat upgrades if anybody ever needs advice from me on that. I don’t mean to hijack everybody’s topics so if you ever need any advice on Boat mechanics or boat upgrades, I’m here for you.

Thanks everyone’s for so much input and knowledge on my problems. I don’t take it for granted at all.

 

take me fishing!!!!!!!

 

Correct. The current shop is problematic. The new guy I’m working with will solve my problem I think. It’s really all about the individual you work with as we all know. I thank so many of you for all your help. I miss driving in my perfectly smooth stock truck.

 

I promise you, if you can help me with this issue, I will give you a free charter all day long!

 

YES!!!!!

 

I see you’re in Tampa. I’ll be in fort myers from October to February. If you need a fishing buddy please hit me up. I’m well behaved

 

no!! He’s mine!!!!

 

Trade it in and get an unmolested stock one.

 

shhhh

 

Oops, sorry I should’ve waited until your free fishing charter was over.

 

Nice boat and all but lets see a pic of this rig how it sits now

 

Thanks.

Yeah, I hear you on the balancing thing. Who knows, it may be that simple. The new guy I'm working with is a true ace at all this stuff so it WILL get figured out... just have to wait a few weeks because he's got so many customers in front of me!

And that's great to know about Discount Tire because the ONLY reason I went with the Falcons is because the current shop said they were the best. My last truck (F150) had 35s both Toyo Open Country and BF Goodrich KO2s and I never had single problem with them!

 

Wow this is great information! Thank you.

My responses in red above.

 

Thanks man! Yeah, I MAY end up ditching the spacers and doing a proper spring lift.... Or just going back to stock. The new guy is super smart, professional, through, etc., I've never read so many glowing 5 star reviews in my life. Wish I had discovered him from the git-go but at least I have him booked (9/7) now. For what it's worth, he did have me order JBA UCAs to help correct the camber/alignment. Obviously don't need those if I go back to stock but I'm trusting him because honestly I'd like to keep a lift (whether it's the Westcott spacer lift or proper spring) and the 285s. Really nice to hear that you've had success with the Falkens because in the beginning I was only thinking about BFG KO2s or Toyo Open Country since I had great success with them on my old F150 with 6.5# lift and 35s.

 

I can do that for sure. If you're ever in Tampa just give me a buzz. A little too hot to be on the salt right now but when Fall hits (October, November) it will be nicer and a better bite.